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RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 5:05:39 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
... you know, to me it's more suspicious to be a member of a local dungeon than not. My reason for this is that I have always been highly suspicious of membership only clubs: I tend to not like them

Agreed. I was telling Master how "suspect" He apparently is for loathing the public stuff and He said basically what you did, KittinSol. H said He's always been "wary" of any group where you need a "secret handshake" and a "magic decoder ring" to be a member

. Of course, He was joking and of course He says people should do whatever makes them happy and works for their own relationship. He simply won't be told what we need to do to not be seen as "suspect."

quote:

The beauty with BDSM is that it is not defined by any universal truth

Hallelujah to that. Some may not have received that memo, though.................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 161

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 5:08:29 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Hmmmm, nobody said such a thing. I think many of us reacted strongly to your assertion that our reluctance to participate in anything public was suspicious. If you're going to bandy adjectives like that around, it's only natural that there will be a reaction. I feel it's necessary to remind you and a few others that there are fuckups in all walks of life... and that membership to a club is not a reference of good character

Amen sister

. Eloquently stated indeed............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 162

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 5:15:37 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Hmmm... I read the whole thread and still don't get two things...

1) perform? who performs? I was out Saturday night at our local dungeon -- while I suppose there are some folks out to show off -- most were much like me, having a wonderful time doing various nasty and lacivious things to people... I saw some amazing scenes this Saturday night... what fun!

Those scenes would technically be "performing" if they're being watched by an audience, no? Nobody said anything about "showing off." But doing anything in front of an audience is basically my definition of "performing." Again, as I responded to Kyra, there was no offense meant by the word and I really can't see where any is found in it.

quote:

2) do any of you who never ever do anything with the public/local/national scene leave any room for the fact that you really don't know what its about until you do experience it? I find it amazing the amount of people who will say that, but clearly, you have no idea, do you?

I don't have to eat a horse turd or get bitten by a timber rattler or jump off a bridge without a parachute to know I wouldn't enjoy them

Private people aren't necessarily "suspect." Some people have no interest in munches or play parties or events where they are taught how to tie knots and flog. Some of us have natural ability and/or read books and do research our own way. Some people are inherently shy or private. There is nothing wrong with that and they shouldn't feel like they have to keep going to public events until they like one or learn something from it. You love it. Great! I don't. Cool. What I don't get is why the ones like me who have less than zero interest in such things seem to only need to be enlightened then they'd enjoy them. Nope. Still no interest.................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 163

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 5:34:26 PM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
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I don't perform, I go to use equipment that I don't have at home. The audience is sometimes there, sometimes not and not of my making.

I never used the word suspect, no need to paint me with that brush.

I never said I loved it. Everything, including the local community here, has good and bad. I don't necessarily love it.

oh, and funnily enough, I am also inherently shy (I work hard against it) and I am very private.

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 5/12/2008 5:35:26 PM >

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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Post #: 164

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 5:52:16 PM

AtlantisKing111

Posts: 181
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

So, what do you do when your local scene isn't available or appealing? How do you deal with the pressure to be "active in the scene" when that's not very feasible or when it's simply not to your taste?

Simple, ignore it. If something is not right for you at a particular time or place then why feel any guilt over not doing it? Ultimately every House should do what is right for it, not because others tell it their members should do.

(in reply to DominantJenny)

Post #: 165

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 6:18:50 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOfTheMad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Leatherist, wake up, nobody here has in any way said or even infered it did, that's your weak strawman argument.
I've even mentioned repeatedly that the community can be fooled as well.
(Repeat that last line as often as you need to to get it through the skull)

I mentioned the flaws even in the post you quoted, stipulated to the idea that it's not a be all end all multiple times but you have chosen the low road of ignoring those. I've been as fair and open minded about people being able to choose whatever way they want to get the information as anyone could be.

Find the place I said being in the scene somehow instantly makes you "safe", or incapable of being a "predator". , you can't because it isn't there.

quote:

Faced with a choice between "person A" a memeber of the community known by some folks and "person B" private person with no references telling me they are in fact a decent person. [Person A starts off with a significant head start because the information I need to be comfortable with them is easily and quickly available. This isn't to say that I would ignore person B at all but rather that because they chose to remain private it's going to take longer. Up to each of us how we want to restrict information about ourselves. But to do so without thought that the natural consequences may be that someone passes us by (cutting both ways)or that someone else reaches that level of intimacy first and thus we are left behind is short sighted

The point that I believe Leatherist is trying to make is that the information you speak of is completely meaningless and he is citing those rapes as an example to why.

Exactly. Only getting to know someone in a more intimate setting over a period of time REALLY works-and you can't use shortcuts Like "community refferences" to get there.

Another example of how "fast food thinking" will trip you up. Don't count on other people to do your thinking for you-it's STUPID.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to LordOfTheMad)

Post #: 166

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 6:34:19 PM

Vigilantejustice

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

I'm likely going to have to duck fireballs for this, but here's my 2p on the Spokane situation.

They didn't victimize anyone connected with their BDSM community. This is very likely because they *knew* it would destroy their reputations if they did. They knew that within their community they were held accountable. Yes, they fooled a lot of people. Yes, what they did is horrible and wrong. Most scummy people don't do things to people in situations where they will be called out on it.

I don't think much of anyone is saying:
Public= Non-Scummy
Private=Scummy

What they're trying to say is:
Public=Harder to hide possible scumminess
Private=Easier to hide possible scumminess

If anyone needs me I'll be cuddled under the fire blanket with my kitchen extinguisher.
-Corinne
House Vigilante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Oh certainly Madrabbit the references are likely to never be able to fill more than 70lbs of my required 96 lbs, LOL
There is a component of the 96 lbs that can only be gotten by face to face personal interatction.
Yes there are flaws in the reference idea, several of them have been mentionedI mearly advocate the idea that you don't have to toss out the entire idea because of a few flaws, you simplyhave to fill in the gaps with other sources of information.

And I notice that you are totally avoiding my refference to the spokane rape cases. I'm simply exlpoding the myth that being in a public scene somehow instantly makes you "safe", or incapable of being a "predator".

These people hid what they were in plain sight-thier lofty words did not match thier deeds-but everyone was fooled until charges were pressed-and sentences handed down.

_____________________________

“Love begets love. This torment is my joy.”
"Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries."
"[Your work] is carved out of agony as a statue is carved out of marble." -All by Theodore Roethke

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 167

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 6:58:46 PM

Vigilantejustice

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
<snip>
Let's take it out of the BDSM context, since I'm pretty sure that's what everyone has their panties in a bunch about.
My grandma sews, knits and does all that other confusing stuff with string. She's pretty damn good at it. However, she doesn't feel the need to go to a sewing circle, or whatever sewing people do. She doesn't go to a group lunch where the only thing she has in common with everyone else is sewing. She's not a member of any kind of sewing website, where sewing experts give her their expert advice on edgeplay knitting. She doesn't feel a need to, and no one gets all snotty about it.
<snip>

<All of the following statements are strictly MY opinions. YMMV.

While I basically agree with this sentiment, I would like to respectfully point out some significant differences between this example and BDSM.

If Grandma drops a stitch it's probably not going to send someone to the hospital.

Would you ask someone to knit you a sweater without seeing anything they've made, or at least knowing what sorts of things they have done? I knit. I could manage a scarf, but anyone who had me make them a sweater would likely be sorely disappointed in the quality of the item. Not everyone is as honest about their skill level as I am.

Your Grandmother has developed her skills through much practice, over what I would assume is quite a few years. I am sure that as a younger, less experienced person, she had assistance from someone, be it her mother, a professional teacher, or friends with her shared interest. If she did not have those resources, it was likely a somewhat difficult journey for her to undertake. If nothing else, I view time spent in my local scene to be an educational experience.

Alright, I think I should stop before my point gets lost in a jumble of text.
-Corinne
House Vigilante

_____________________________

“Love begets love. This torment is my joy.”
"Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries."
"[Your work] is carved out of agony as a statue is carved out of marble." -All by Theodore Roethke

(in reply to Lynnxz)

Post #: 168

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 9:13:30 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

LaT: Are you OK?

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 169

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 9:21:50 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Lynnxz: give her their expert advice on edgeplay knitting

I tried that once. Had to go to the ER for removal of four 6" nickle plated DPNs. And you won't believe where they found the skein. It wasn't pretty. And you should have seen my hapless submissive afterwards, too.

OH how I wish I'd first gone to learn from an experienced group of expert knitters with their own stitching dungeon. Had I only known to seek out references, I might have, someday, been able to finish that damn afghan.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Lynnxz)

Post #: 170

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 9:34:05 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

Those scenes would technically be "performing" if they're being watched by an audience, no?

No.

Those scenes would be 'performing' if they were done for the benefit of an audience...that's why actors have rehearsals as opposed to performances... there can be people watching either one.

Some people do go out to clubs and events to put on a show.....Others, as repeatedly pointed out, go because there is equipment in larger settings that most people don't have in their homes.

There are many reasons, good or bad to be active in groups. There are many reasons good or bad, to stay away from groups.

I can't think of any good reasons to keep up this crap of insinuating that the settings themselves are bad and reflect on all those who choose them.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/12/2008 9:57:03 PM >

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 171

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/12/2008 10:14:45 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

I think it's more amusing to watch the reactions to "sacred cow tipping".

It's rather telling, no?

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I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 172

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 12:22:36 AM

LadyKatTuchuk

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline

5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Reffences don't mean squat if you only provide the GOOD ones. The case of the former Spokane "community leaders" who kidnapped and raped the japanese exchange students are a really good case of how easy it is to bullshit people,they got jail sentences.

http://asianweek.com/2001_08_03/news_rapist.html

At least one of them was known as someone people should stay away from, but other just didn't believe it.
Before the rapes I was renting a place to sleep from the leader of the Spokane BDSM scene. Everyone thought he was totally above board. But I made the mistake of letting him know that I thought his doing BDSM play in front of his 5 yr old was way out of line. And I let a few others in that community know of this.

That night he sat me down and told me he should 'cut out my tongue' for daring to critizie him. This fellow wasn't the affable caring person he portrayed to others. But when someone drops their mask and reveals their hidden side its difficult to get others to believe you.

Trust me, I got myself out of that place as quickly as possible and never went around that man again. But when friends still in Spokane brought to my notice the kidnap/rape performed by that man and some of his friends it really did not surprise me.

Predators mask their true personalities. Its not until someone is harmed that it comes out. But then you will always get people who just plain out refuse to believe 'their idol' could do anything bad.

IMO, being in a club or group does not guarantee you safety. Go on your own gut feelings, those feelings are things your brain is picking up that just don't seem to fit in with the persona the person is displaying.

And I hope him and his buddies are having a grand time in prison being the non-censentual playmate of the prison population.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 173

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 3:02:24 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vigilantejustice
I don't think much of anyone is saying:
Public= Non-Scummy
Private=Scummy

What they're trying to say is:
Public=Harder to hide possible scumminess
Private=Easier to hide possible scumminess

Yep you got what Archer, Michael and Myself where saying... Glad someone has as I was starting to wonder if IQ's had dropped sharply around here...

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Vigilantejustice)

Post #: 174

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 4:56:27 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vigilantejustice
I don't think much of anyone is saying:
Public= Non-Scummy
Private=Scummy

What they're trying to say is:
Public=Harder to hide possible scumminess
Private=Easier to hide possible scumminess

Yep you got what Archer, Michael and Myself where saying... Glad someone has as I was starting to wonder if IQ's had dropped sharply around here...

That is what Archer was saying... you and Michael were trotting out your tired old 'I'm the keeper of the One Twue BDSM Way' crap.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 175

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 5:00:53 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

FR

I'm not sure that the Spokane case really has much bearing here.. I don't get why it should...there are good and bad, criminals and non in our midsts...

yes, a criminal was part of a group there, but it doesn't say anything more than that... I'm going to suggest that Ted Bundy belonged to his local library, maybe even the Y... doesn't condemn anyone else who did...

oh and if you read anything about the BTK guy.. he didn't belong to any community groups, he trolled online

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 5/13/2008 5:01:35 AM >

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 176

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 5:08:18 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny
I'm sure a lot of people have similar stories. So, what do you do when your local scene isn't available or appealing? How do you deal with the pressure to be "active in the scene" when that's not very feasible or when it's simply not to your taste?

I'm not quite the person to talk about this considering how active, indeed how much a "leader" I was in the local scenes where we've lived for years. That stopped for a variety of reasons and is actually the strongest reason I came to Collarme.

I have an innate drive to be social in relationship to BDSM but lacking what I consider a safe and respectful local community and a ton of things in our social lives, I went without for a few years until someone mentioned here.

Now I'm in a different place in that I have my poly kinky family set up, no desire at this point to actively seek another. However if we did want to add to the family we would start going to events regularly and frequently.

That is really the trick. Going to one or two munches cannot give you the opportunity to become part of that group. Going to a workshop once or twice a year, you can't see the benefits. Everyone had to start off new to things and you become part of things but continuing to attend, volunteering and getting involve. No, it isn't easy but why should it be easy?

I'd say if you don't have the time to put in that effort don't beat yourself up about it. However, also then be realistic about how you might find support, allies, friends, and partners if you aren't part of a meatlife community.

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(in reply to DominantJenny)

Post #: 177

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 6:07:54 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
That is what Archer was saying... you and Michael were trotting out your tired old 'I'm the keeper of the One Twue BDSM Way' crap.

Looks like I was right and IQ's did drop sharply.... learn to read!

quote:

As I pointed out 'suspect' isn't 'guilty' I have met people who hadn't been on the scene, I have viewed them with far more suspicion when doing so simply because they are far less check-outable. As Archer states it is far easier to 'hide' unsavory elements in private.... sure a small group may have a clique effect but the bigger the scene in that area the less likely such negative elements are going to stay hidden..... and London has a HUGE scene, hence My stance.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 178

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 6:30:25 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

References go both ways. If someone I respect says I should check out group X, I will. If someone I respect says group X isn't impressive, I won't run over there to find out for myself.

I fail to see the drama here, in either direction.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 179

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/13/2008 6:41:11 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKatTuchuk

5
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Reffences don't mean squat if you only provide the GOOD ones. The case of the former Spokane "community leaders" who kidnapped and raped the japanese exchange students are a really good case of how easy it is to bullshit people,they got jail sentences.

http://asianweek.com/2001_08_03/news_rapist.html

At least one of them was known as someone people should stay away from, but other just didn't believe it.
Before the rapes I was renting a place to sleep from the leader of the Spokane BDSM scene. Everyone thought he was totally above board. But I made the mistake of letting him know that I thought his doing BDSM play in front of his 5 yr old was way out of line. And I let a few others in that community know of this.

That night he sat me down and told me he should 'cut out my tongue' for daring to critizie him. This fellow wasn't the affable caring person he portrayed to others. But when someone drops their mask and reveals their hidden side its difficult to get others to believe you.

Trust me, I got myself out of that place as quickly as possible and never went around that man again. But when friends still in Spokane brought to my notice the kidnap/rape performed by that man and some of his friends it really did not surprise me.

Predators mask their true personalities. Its not until someone is harmed that it comes out. But then you will always get people who just plain out refuse to believe 'their idol' could do anything bad.

IMO, being in a club or group does not guarantee you safety. Go on your own gut feelings, those feelings are things your brain is picking up that just don't seem to fit in with the persona the person is displaying.

And I hope him and his buddies are having a grand time in prison being the non-censentual playmate of the prison population.

Nodding....that pretty much summed it up for me. That even after thier convictions-these people still have thier "staunch allies" in that group.

Amazing.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to LadyKatTuchuk)

Post #: 180

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