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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:15:50 AM

stella41b

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submissive - you set your own limits after negotiation with a Dominant.

slave - your Dominant sets your limits

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 12:14:17 PM

dragon2760

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If i have learned anything at all from this thread and the other threads that have been referenced, it is this. That it is context of the relationship between the Dominant(or whatever other term you wish to use) and the Submissive(or whatever other term you wish to use) and what they agree to within their specific relationship that determines what terms are used.

And to use a quote from someone else on these boards:

"Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different." - My Beloved (Valyraen)

< Message edited by dragon2760 -- 5/11/2008 12:52:32 PM >

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 12:37:03 PM

LadyPact

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Hon, it's "Dominant" not "Dominate".

One's a noun, the other a verb.

Personal pet peeve of Mine. Don't get Me started on the way people pronouce "DommAAAAAA"

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 12:41:03 PM

Lordandmaster

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Those who REALLY know these things understand that it's supposed to be pronounced "Dom-mee" (rhymes with "Mommy").

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Don't get Me started on the way people pronouce "DommAAAAAA"

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 12:41:20 PM

HieroV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SensibleSam

In BDSM we call certain women slaves. We do this because it pleases us. The connotations of the term slave are strong and elict sexual pleasure in both the Dominant and the submissive participant. Similarly among vanilla couples the man might call his partner "Snuggy-Wuggams". This too makes him happy.

Happiness is good. All this is fine until people try to take these tags literally.

In the movie We Were Soldiers Mel Gibson says something to the effect, "we are cavalry and these are our horses" (pointing to the Huey helicopters). Sensible people people would recognize that this is a metaphore. A literalist would begin to buy oats.

Yes, yes, yes!

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 12:49:05 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Hon, it's "Dominant" not "Dominate".

One's a noun, the other a verb.

Personal pet peeve of Mine. Don't get Me started on the way people pronouce "DommAAAAAA"

Domme' is a made up word, and can be pronounced as is consomme' or what have you.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 1:07:01 PM

dragon2760

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Taken care of LadyPact. Spell check unfortunately does not see the use of the wrong words just the fact that they are spelled correctly. :)

Thank You

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 1:42:00 PM

Level

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slave: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.

What does "completely subservient" mean? Whatever we want it to?

Is one a slave, until they don't want to be, anymore? Can a slave say "fuck this", and get up and walk out the door?

own: to possess.

If we own something, does that mean we own it until we, and we alone, decide otherwise?

Would we be better served to describe some as "slavish", rather than "slave"?

I don't believe in slavery. Rather, I don't think it exists, in D/s land. There are slavish submissives, though.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 4:58:42 PM

lizcgirl

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Like most of the details of D/s relationships, this is determined by the two people who are in a relationship together. What works for one couple doesn't for another. For me, a sub has the right to refuse what he/she is told to do, and also has more input into the decisions and direction of the relationship and all aspects of their lives. A slave has handed over those rights to his/her Master and trusts their judgement completely, without objection. It doesn't mean that the Master doesn't take into consideration the slave's feelings or concerns, it means that the Master has the final say, no matter what, and the slave obeys. (Again, my opinion.)

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 5:08:10 PM

Interesdom

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On Wipipedia, the specialist BDSM encyclopedia, you could look up on BDSM roles or more specifically on the individual topics on Slave and Submissive.

My own, very short, summary is that a slave is owned and therefore has no ownership herself, including no ownership of decision made about/for her. A submissive retains at least some autonomy and can retain property.

As is indicated on the Wipipedia topic of slaves, it is common in forums etc, for people to use the word 'slave' for its emotional impact, rather than necessarily in an accurate context. This is not to decry such use - it is a common habit on any subject - but it does confuse matters.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 5:16:20 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragon2760

i am new here and i am sure this has been asked before but i could not quite find what i was looking for through a search.

i have seen the terms Slave and Submissive used not only in different contexts but also in simular contexts and was wondering what is the general opinion of those here as to their differences as well as their simularities??

thanks

In the official Celticlord lexicon, a submissive is any woman I have not made my slave...

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 6:40:18 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragon2760

i have seen the terms Slave and Submissive used not only in different contexts but also in simular contexts and was wondering what is the general opinion of those here as to their differences as well as their simularities??

god this is an easy one to answer... I haven't read the thread... and I am likely repeating what has already be said...

But.... The general opinion is that they is no general opinion on the differences between the two.... except that they are spelled differently.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 7:14:49 PM

abqowner

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Short answer - the "correct" definition of slave vs. sub (and darn near anything else) is the definition held by the owner.

Long answer - my definition of a submissive is probably going to offend some, though it's not intentional. A sub generally (qualifier qualifier qualifier) isn't 24/7, to begin with. Or you could say submission is a behavior, slavery is a lifestyle. It's possible to be a a submissive slave, but not all slaves are submissive.

I usually associate subs with scenes or short term service. They have the option of limits and safewords - slowing or stopping the activity around them. But the big difference is that (generally...) the submissive, in scene, is the focus of attention. The person to whom they submit concentrates on the sub's body. One of my best friends is submissive and he's a pure attention whore (in the best way possible, naturally ;) It's a perfect match - he gets the rush of kneeling to someone. At the same time his temporary Master will spend hours doing nothing but paying attention to him in the scene. Everyone wins. Am I saying all subs are attention whores? No. But for my friend it's an ideal solution.

Slaves, on the other hand (qualifier qualifier qualifier), are rarely if ever the center of attention. They are objects, no different than dogs, and usually work in the background - unless the owner wants to play with them or train them. They do not (again generally) have the option of safewords. And aside from the basic needs of life, they aren't entitled to an opinion. They do not control their own body, and have no control of anything associated with it. This includes, but is not limited to, weight, hair style, permanent marks, clothing style (or lack thereof), bodily function etc. I'm sure you get the point. They don't own property and have no access to funds. In return, it is the absolute responsibility of the owner to provide proper care of this slave as they would any livestock. The level of this ownership should be (is usually) negotiated ahead of time, and is spelled out in a contract. Is this ownership legal? Yes, and no. Obviously owning a human being in this country is illegal. However, a clever and discrete lawyer can go a long way toward making the owning of a slave legal in all ways but name.

All those qualifiers are there for a reason. The definitions vary for every person in this scene! So really, just default to the owner present.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:17:41 PM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Personal pet peeve of Mine. Don't get Me started on the way people pronouce "DommAAAAAA"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Those who REALLY know these things understand that it's supposed to be pronounced "Dom-mee" (rhymes with "Mommy").

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Domme' is a made up word, and can be pronounced as is consomme' or what have you.

Actually...

Domme is the French method of feminization by use of the suffix "me". It would be correctly pronounced dŏm (just as the masculine form is pronounced).

Domme does not end in the vowel "i" which would be pronounced ee, and there is no accent aigu (é) to create the ey sound at the end as in consommé,

Though the word "domme" is made-up, it was created using proper language form and following the rules for that form, the "e" at the end would be considered e muet... silent.

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:29:49 PM

ResidentSadist

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With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom. To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event. It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning.

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison.

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may". It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/11/2008 9:47:59 PM >

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:47:54 PM

stella41b

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< Message edited by stella41b -- 5/11/2008 9:49:11 PM >

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:53:20 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
submissive - you set your own limits after negotiation with a Dominant.

slave - your Dominant sets your limits

To bulletproof and avoid the political backlash of the D/s community that swears the Doms set the limits, your very accurate answer might be simplify by saying:

submissive - limits are negotiated with a Dominant.

slave - your Dominant sets your limits

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 9:59:47 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom. To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event. It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning.

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison.

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may". It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.

I say ignore this myopic crap and don't allow your own label and lifestyle to be limited by the people who so desperately need to shove everyone in boxes.

Everybody does it a little bit different than everyone else. The dictionary might have some cool definitions that are clearly defined, but to think that the reality of people's relationships are all so clearly defined and aligned with the definitions is naive at best.

With all due respect to the box shovers and black and white thinkers of course...

Edited to Add : Any definitons some random guy on Wikipedia wrote out are as limiting and inaccurate as the dictionary definition for the word "love".

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/11/2008 10:03:57 PM >

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 10:14:07 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom. To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event. It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning.

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison.

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may". It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.

I say ignore this myopic crap and don't allow your own label and lifestyle to be limited by the people who so desperately need to shove everyone in boxes.

Everybody does it a little bit different than everyone else. The dictionary might have some cool definitions that are clearly defined, but to think that the reality of people's relationships are all so clearly defined and aligned with the definitions is naive at best.

With all due respect to the box shovers and black and white thinkers of course...

Edited to Add : Any definitons some random guy on Wikipedia wrote out are as limiting and inaccurate as the dictionary definition for the word "love".

Dude…
Some newcomer, someone new enough to ask what the difference between a slave & sub is and you are gonna’ hand him the Zen, life is what you make it speech? Give the guy a break and just tell him what everybody else thinks when they hear the simple words, sub or slave. Maybe toss in some relationship background like slaves are often a component in TPE or M/s type relationships.

Also, if we start thinking you know what the fuck you are taking about but we should throw away the dictionary and encyclopedia because they are limiting and inaccurate,,,, just shoot me.

… illiterate fucking morons passing our advice reminds me of a famous old saying “about ignorance in action”…

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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 10:15:58 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

In the official Celticlord lexicon, a submissive is any woman I have not made my slave...

Oh, i like this one very much. Whether you were kidding or not, this statement, for me, is about as true as you can get.

i have always been submissive, 24/7, in every sexually intimate relationship i have ever been in, whether or not any BD/SM activities were a part of it. If, at any time, in any of my previous relationships, i had been told that i was to be a slave within that relationship, i would have gladly obeyed. And, that would have made my life a lot easier and less stressful, because i wouldn't have had to keep searching for someone to take full control of me.

The degree of my submissiveness, within my relationships, has always been dependent on how much i was being Dominated. The more that was demanded from me, the more i submitted. It has had nothing to do with safewords or limits or being treated like an object or a dog. i never used safewords in any of my D/s relationships and there was never any discussion of limits.

It also has nothing to do with my inability to leave. i'm not kept under lock and key. But, even if i was, chains can be broken. But, my enslavement to my Master is complete because it is internal, not external. i am tied to Him internally, through my devotion to Him and through my need to be under His control.

i'm no different now, as a slave to my Master, than i was before as a submissive girlfriend or a submissive wife. i'm no more submissive than i was before. And, i am not treated like an object or a dog by my Master. The only difference is that my Master took complete control of me and He Dominates me more than anyone else ever did. He simply took this submissive woman and made me His slave. Just like you said, Celticlord.

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