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RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 10:21:53 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom.  To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event.  It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning. 

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison. 

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may".  It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.



English-French dictionary with 120,000 translations
We found no French translation for 'Domme' in our English to French Dictionary.
 
 
 
Le mot Domme n'a pas été trouvé.
Sorry, the word domme was not found
 
 
No results found
 
 
 
 
 
It is made up, not French..
Take your pick.
 

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/11/2008 10:27:44 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom.  To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event.  It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning. 

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison. 

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may".  It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.


I say ignore this myopic crap and don't allow your own label and lifestyle to be limited by the people who so desperately need to shove everyone in boxes.

Everybody does it a little bit different than everyone else. The dictionary might have some cool definitions that are clearly defined, but to think that the reality of people's relationships are all so clearly defined and aligned with the definitions is naive at best.

With all due respect to the box shovers and black and white thinkers of course...

Edited to Add : Any definitons some random guy on Wikipedia wrote out are as limiting and inaccurate as the dictionary definition for the word "love".

Dude…
Some newcomer, someone new enough to ask what the difference between a slave & sub is and you are gonna’ hand him the Zen, life is what you make it speech?  Give the guy a break and just tell him what everybody else thinks when they hear the simple words, sub or slave.  Maybe toss in some relationship background like slaves are often a component in TPE or M/s type relationships. 

Also, if we start thinking you know what the fuck you are taking about but we should throw away the dictionary and encyclopedia because they are limiting and inaccurate,,,, just shoot me.

… illiterate fucking morons passing our advice reminds me of a famous old saying “about ignorance in action”…


I happen to know quite a few people who have extensive years of experience with the public scene and have traveled around the country attending events.

All of them share the same opinion that the labels in this "lifestyle" are subject to opinion and interruptation.

And, no, my real answer isn't the Zen one. It's the one I usually give. These words are labels people take on to express parts of themselves. What that part is different with everyone and you have to pretty much ask everyone you talk to what their label means.

If you were to ask me the general consensus, I would say that generally I find that bottom refers to purely orientation in play, while submissive and slave denote positions in a power based relationship, the word slave usually meaning a higher level of power exchange.

I'm sorry if your so disconnected with the times and out of touch with the fact that there is thousands of people out there doing what they want without any regard to what Wikipedia says.

What's the point of teaching them definitions if they amount to absolutely crap in practical application with interacting with people? I'm giving them realistic information. Your giving them garbage.

I'm sure it will get them started on the One True Way.

Edited : Because the moderators have asked me nicely to be less aggressive


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/11/2008 10:49:10 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 2:07:53 AM   
LostMyself


Posts: 72
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		Apparently, I'm something inbetween...  even more submissive than submissive, but not slave..  because I can't take humiliation, I think.. I humiliate myself, mentally..  I couldn't deal with it from outside..  but I'm just.. more submissive than most would ever consider a submissive...

_____________________________


Altered Perception

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 2:12:34 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		I don't humiliate subs or slaves, lost.

The interpretations or this or that, as already said, are as unlimited as the personalities in the world. And isn't that a lovely thing, that we all have different idea's? Which is just as it should be.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to LostMyself)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 2:39:02 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may".  It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.

English-French dictionary with 120,000 translations
We found no French translation for 'Domme' in our English to French Dictionary.
 
Le mot Domme n'a pas été trouvé.
Sorry, the word domme was not found
 
No results found

It is made up, not French..
Take your pick.


I can see why you had trouble or made the mistake that Domme was made up if you had never been exposed to its real origins or correct pronunciation.  Tourists these days have bastardized BDSM and its origins so badly, people don’t even know what a Domme is, where the word came from or how to pronounce it… and all this is a sidebar while arguing in a thread that there is no definition or difference between a slave and a submissive …fucking hilarious.   

Domme is very, very French and it truly is pronounced the way the BDSM community originally taught me, with a single syllable.  See the following links and info below for a modern verification of my old school education on this topic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Domme is French
The term "domme" (pronounced /ˈdɒm/) is a coined pseudo-French female variation of the slang dom (short for dominant). There is confusion on its pronunciation, with some pronouncing it identically to dom and some pronouncing the final e as a second syllable, e.g. saying dom-MAY or DOM-may. The correct pronunciation is identical to dom, by analogy to one-syllable French-derived words like femme or blonde. 
Reference:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominatrix

Domme is also a town ... in France
Domme, beautifully situated on a hill which falls steeply down to the Dordogne

Map location:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g580128-Domme-Area.html
Tourist info:
http://www.francethisway.com/mbv-domme.php

Dominant is a French word (aka slang Dom, Domme)
Middle English dominaunt, from Old French - to dominate.

Refernce: http://www.bartleby.com/61/32/D0333200.html


So both Dom and Domme are French in origin... end of lesson, references included.    
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In thinking about the etymology of the many words associated with FemDoms, I gathered up a few links that just might explain the bad stigma behind the “hookers with whips” imagery that is so common.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mistress is also French
1. a woman, specifically one with control, authority or ownership
2. She was the mistress of the mansion, and owned the horses.
3. a female teacher
4. games mistress
5. a woman who (dishonorably) displaces a wife in the affections of a man; a woman, other than his wife, with whom a married man has a continuing sexual relationship
6. a dominatrix

From Middle English and Old French maistresse (French: maîtresse), feminine of maistre, master.
 
References:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mistress
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mistress
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dominatrix is Latin
a woman who subjects her masochistic sexual partner to bondage, the infliction of ritualistic punishments, etc.; specif., a prostitute who performs such acts for her customers

… dominatrix is attested since 1561, though not in quite the usual modern sense ("Rome ... dominatrix of nations" [1561]).  

References:
http://www.yourdictionary.com/dominatrix
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dominatrix
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=dominatrix&searchmode=none
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Domina is Latin
lady or mistress of the house

References:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/domina
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=domina&searchmode=none http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?lookup=domina&.submit=Analyze+Form&lang=la&formentry=1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 4:41:24 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

With all due respect to swingers, kinksters and fetish fiends alike, in BDSM there are 3 clearly developed stereotypes: slave, submissive and bottom.  To say they are open to interpretation is as silly as saying a collar will make no impression if your wear one to BDSM event.  It has meaning and a clear socially defined meaning. 

To the OP, ignore any crap you hear in this thread and go to an encyclopedia or dictionary, even they know the differences aren’t open to debate or comparison. 

PS... Domme is French in origin and it is not pronounced like "Mommy" or "Dom-may".  It is exactly like Femme, just one syllable.


I say ignore this myopic crap and don't allow your own label and lifestyle to be limited by the people who so desperately need to shove everyone in boxes.

Everybody does it a little bit different than everyone else. The dictionary might have some cool definitions that are clearly defined, but to think that the reality of people's relationships are all so clearly defined and aligned with the definitions is naive at best.

With all due respect to the box shovers and black and white thinkers of course...

Edited to Add : Any definitons some random guy on Wikipedia wrote out are as limiting and inaccurate as the dictionary definition for the word "love".

Dude…
Some newcomer, someone new enough to ask what the difference between a slave & sub is and you are gonna’ hand him the Zen, life is what you make it speech?  Give the guy a break and just tell him what everybody else thinks when they hear the simple words, sub or slave.  Maybe toss in some relationship background like slaves are often a component in TPE or M/s type relationships. 

Also, if we start thinking you know what the fuck you are taking about but we should throw away the dictionary and encyclopedia because they are limiting and inaccurate,,,, just shoot me.

… illiterate fucking morons passing our advice reminds me of a famous old saying “about ignorance in action”…


I happen to know quite a few people who have extensive years of experience with the public scene and have traveled around the country attending events.

All of them share the same opinion that the labels in this "lifestyle" are subject to opinion and interruptation.

And, no, my real answer isn't the Zen one. It's the one I usually give. These words are labels people take on to express parts of themselves. What that part is different with everyone and you have to pretty much ask everyone you talk to what their label means.

If you were to ask me the general consensus, I would say that generally I find that bottom refers to purely orientation in play, while submissive and slave denote positions in a power based relationship, the word slave usually meaning a higher level of power exchange.

I'm sorry if your so disconnected with the times and out of touch with the fact that there is thousands of people out there doing what they want without any regard to what Wikipedia says.

What's the point of teaching them definitions if they amount to absolutely crap in practical application with interacting with people? I'm giving them realistic information. Your giving them garbage.

I'm sure it will get them started on the One True Way.

Edited : Because the moderators have asked me nicely to be less aggressive
I’m pretty myopic when it comes to communicating clearly.  Good thing the poor guy who made this post didn’t ask how to pronounce Domme or what the origins were?  In my narrow view, I see someone ask a BDSM question of a BDSM community and some of you guys bullshitted him without answering the simple BDSM question in the OP.  Even I told him to look it up instead of giving a straight answer in order to avoid casting troll bait. 

How damn hard would it have been to say: "The difference between a slave and submissive is that a slave doesn’t get to negotiate limits and usually a submissive does."

That is reality… that is what is normally expected when using those words in BDSM company.  If you are at a nuclear weapons convention and someone asks about the difference between U235 (weapons grade uranium) and U238, are you going to talk about how entropy will eventually break it down to thorium, radium, radon, bismuth and eventually lead?  Shouldn't you say, "U235 makes atomic bombs U238 won’t".  There are a million variations on the theme of slavery or submission…  many of which are bullshitting themselves… but that is another story and this thread is hijacked so badly I just saw Cuba go by out the port window.  The only thing that could go further astray now is to debate the meaning of BDSM …  next thing you know we will have to post the effect of Libertine influence (that's also very French BTW) and references to Marquee De Sade (also French) & Leopold Sacher-Masoch (not French, German) and how BDSM cam eo what it is today. 

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 5:32:07 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		The difference is only what you say it is in your own relationships. You'll get people trying to define the terms for everyone until they are blue in the face, yet people will continue to lead happy lives where they fit the "slave" defination and choose not to use it or the "submissive" defination and choose not to use it. I've seen people termed submissive who led much more restrictive lives than some labeled slave.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to dragon2760)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 5:38:48 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Dude…
Some newcomer, someone new enough to ask what the difference between a slave & sub is and you are gonna’ hand him the Zen, life is what you make it speech?  Give the guy a break and just tell him what everybody else thinks when they hear the simple words, sub or slave.  Maybe toss in some relationship background like slaves are often a component in TPE or M/s type relationships. 

Also, if we start thinking you know what the fuck you are taking about but we should throw away the dictionary and encyclopedia because they are limiting and inaccurate,,,, just shoot me.

… illiterate fucking morons passing our advice reminds me of a famous old saying “about ignorance in action”…


Obviously what you think isn't what everybody thinks or the debate wouldn't rage on. I have been to real time events and never encountered the things you describe nor the unflexible thinking in terms of labels that you insist is the only truth. What you consider true is truth to you and yours only. I'm sure that you attend many groups where what you state here is the social law - but there are also many groups where the social law is that all men are subservient and women their superiors.

Nobody is bullshitting him except those who tell him the rules are hard and fast.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 5/12/2008 5:39:05 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 7:04:46 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

How damn hard would it have been to say: "The difference between a slave and submissive is that a slave doesn’t get to negotiate limits and usually a submissive does."

That is reality… that is what is normally expected when using those words in BDSM company. 
 

In theory and theoretical discussion, sure, I would agree with you that when M/S versus D/S are discussed in the abstract, this is the general difference between the two.

But, once again, not in application. I've met a lot of slaves who have defined limits and a lot of submissives where negotation didn't come into play. People use the words interchangably all the time at munches and demos and how people use them changes based on where you go.

A dominant/Master has a degree of control over the relationship and a slave/submissives gives up a degree of control are the only definitions that really work. Neither one of these vague and ambigous definitions limits communication, anymore than the word "cook" limits communication.

If I say, I am a "cook", it will communicate to someone that I cook some kind of food as a profession. I will still have to explain to them where I cook at, what kind of cook I am, and what type of food I cook.

The problem with flopping down the Wikipedia articles and the dictionary definitions is that it creates a black-and-white image for newbies that this is the way it is and the problem is that it's not the way it is. I read all the books, all the websites, and the information I could get my hands on when I was a newbie and it wasn't until I forgot all that shit that I could communicate and interact with people productively.

Why? The fallacy of this dichotomy is that when one clearly defines and presents a black and white view of the world, then the initial reaction when one meets someone who doesn't conicide with this view is to respond with the dreaded "You aren't really a true slave"

This is why people give bullshit answers in these threads, because this has been done over and over again and the end result of when people try and plop down the definitions and say "This is the how works!", it's only a matter of time before that phrase is uttered and all hell breaks lose.

I know. I have done it. I wish I had gotten some of the replies in this thread as opposed to being directed to the "resources". It would have saved me a whole lot of bad looks at munches from uttering those six deadly words if someone had said "Hey, look, there is some general sterotypes that people refer to more than not, but the world is a big, ole confusing place and you are going to have to actually talk to people and ask questions if you want to accurately understand their label and relationship."

You used another word besides "definitions" earlier that I thought was a bit better. It was "stereotypes" which is exactly what a lot of this is. And in my experiences, stereotypes, while they give someone a false sense of how the world works, do nothing but impede and limit communication when it comes to human interaction.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 7:39:12 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		double posted - sorry

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 5/12/2008 7:42:55 AM >

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 7:41:54 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Dude…
Some newcomer, someone new enough to ask what the difference between a slave & sub is and you are gonna’ hand him the Zen, life is what you make it speech?  Give the guy a break and just tell him what everybody else thinks when they hear the simple words, sub or slave.  Maybe toss in some relationship background like slaves are often a component in TPE or M/s type relationships. 

Also, if we start thinking you know what the fuck you are taking about but we should throw away the dictionary and encyclopedia because they are limiting and inaccurate,,,, just shoot me.

… illiterate fucking morons passing our advice reminds me of a famous old saying “about ignorance in action”…


Obviously what you think isn't what everybody thinks or the debate wouldn't rage on. I have been to real time events and never encountered the things you describe nor the unflexible thinking in terms of labels that you insist is the only truth. What you consider true is truth to you and yours only. I'm sure that you attend many groups where what you state here is the social law - but there are also many groups where the social law is that all men are subservient and women their superiors.

Nobody is bullshitting him except those who tell him the rules are hard and fast.

-=Reality Check=-
Here in “The Largest BDSM Community on the Planet” where you choose to list yourself as either a “submissive” or a “slave”, you are going to tell the guy who posted the question in the OP that it is meaningless?  …there is no difference?   …there are no rules?  …and you imply this also holds true in the real world? 

WTF - did you think the staff here at CollarME just decided to toss in some extra nonsense to clutter their database? 

You’re killing me guys.  I’m serious… I may need hospitalization if I laugh any harder at this BS.


_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 7:50:08 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

You’re killing me guys.  I’m serious… I may need hospitalization if I laugh any harder at this BS.



Some people find comic relief in the most unlikely places.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 7:56:12 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

-=Reality Check=-
Here in “The Largest BDSM Community on the Planet” where you choose to list yourself as either a “submissive” or a “slave”, you are going to tell the guy who posted the question in the OP that it is meaningless?  …there is no difference?   …there are no rules?  …and you imply this also holds true in the real world? 


That is a straw man argument. We're not talking about the existance of the words, but rather what those words actually mean.

Just because we have a variety of established labels that are apparently sufficient for people to choose and identify with doesn't mean those labels themselves have a consistant meaning that applies absolutely from person to person anymore than one person posting about how they "love" someone is going to communicate the same emotion and feeling as the next person who posts how they "love" someone.

In fact, these words don't always communicate the proper meaning and identity so people have adapted new words to communicate their individual dynamic and who they are.

Words like Puppy, Owner, Trainer, Servant, Daddy, Daddy's girl....

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:06:10 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
How damn hard would it have been to say: "The difference between a slave and submissive is that a slave doesn’t get to negotiate limits and usually a submissive does."

That is reality… that is what is normally expected when using those words in BDSM company. 
 
…would agree with you that when M/S versus D/S are discussed in the abstract, this is the general difference between the two.

I've met a lot of slaves who have defined limits and a lot of submissives where negotation didn't come into play. People use the words interchangably all the time at munches… 
….if someone had said "Hey, look, there is some general sterotypes that people refer to more than not, but the world is a big, ole confusing place and you are going to have to actually talk to people and ask questions if you want to accurately understand their label and relationship.



-This is exactly what I mean. You describe a slave… it’s a good word don’t be afraid to use it.  Like so many Doms that aren’t “sadist” but they swing a whip etc… LMAO.   It’s all so much bullshit to me.  Call a spade a spade and let’s not confuse the newcomers with intricate nuances.  Nothing is all black or white.  But there are basic defining lines.  Slave, sub, sadist all have very clear meanings.  It is the self-deluded politically correct people afraid to use the real words for what they do because it might cause a ripple in the SSC fabric of the universe that are causing confusion.  Fuck that PC bullshit pretending that no one here is a sadist and we don’t use bad words like slave.
 
I have not been to your munch but as of a few weeks ago I spent a weekend at Beyond Leather here in Florida and they had a lot of workshops… some for slaves.  There wasn’t any confusion of terms.  The world still spoke the English found in the dictionary as far as I could tell.

I understand what you are saying about stereotypes… but on the other hand, you have to generalize to a degree you converse in words with common meanings. 

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:10:23 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

You’re killing me guys.  I’m serious… I may need hospitalization if I laugh any harder at this BS.


Let's start with the fact that the name of the town in France is in the Occitan language, citing it as an example of 'French origin'  is a rookie mistake as bad as claiming  that Moet Chandon is pronounced 'Moway' because champagne is French.

Claiming that the dictionary is wrong and then ranting about others ignoring the dictionary, while posting a Wiki link that say 'Domme' is a pseudo-French word to 'prove' your assertion that it is originally French? 
Pseudo is made up.  Just like claims of expertise and inherited guardianship of the 'One Twue BDSM Way'.

Is Castle Realm down or something?

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:21:38 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		To those that were previously in disagreement,,, let me now say this. Your words have hit me with an epiphany, you are right, slave, subs and bottoms are exactly the same in their individually unique and personally indefinable ways.  In fact, I may or may not even really a be sadist… in my own and unique way. 
 
To the OP, I sincerely apologize and thank you for your patience and your sincere question.  I am heading for the exit, the plane is yours and I won’t have anything further to do with the hijacking.  <exit stage right>

PS, and the origins of the word Domme's, have nothing to do with the french and it is prounced
like "Mommy"  or "dom-May".

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:32:54 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

-This is exactly what I mean. You describe a slave… it’s a good word don’t be afraid to use it.  Like so many Doms that aren’t “sadist” but they swing a whip etc… LMAO.   It’s all so much bullshit to me.  Call a spade a spade and let’s not confuse the newcomers with intricate nuances.  Nothing is all black or white.  But there are basic defining lines.  Slave, sub, sadist all have very clear meanings.  It is the self-deluded politically correct people afraid to use the real words for what they do because it might cause a ripple in the SSC fabric of the universe that are causing confusion.  Fuck that PC bullshit pretending that no one here is a sadist and we don’t use bad words like slave.
 

I'm not PC and not trying to be, because I haven't had the practice. I'm sure a lot of people around here can attest to that lol. This is just my honest opinions and my side of the debate.

I can see where you are coming from and I understand the arguments. I have been in this discussion a number of times on different panels with a variety of people who take the same position as you. (And I swear on the Great Old Guard Bible that this is the last time lol)

My conflict with this is that I don't look at the words as solely words to communicate terms, but rather words that people personalize, associate with parts of themselves and form an identity with.

While these is some people who choose not to use words for the PC reasons listed above, I see people mostly getting upset when their identities are denounced because how they live their lives doesn't fall within the parameters of the established definitions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I have not been to your munch but as of a few weeks ago I spent a weekend at Beyond Leather here in Florida and they had a lot of workshops… some for slaves.  There wasn’t any confusion of terms.  The world still spoke the English found in the dictionary as far as I could tell.

I understand what you are saying about stereotypes… but on the other hand, you have to generalize to a degree you converse in words with common meanings. 


I don't see the BDSM world in a state of confusion and there is nothing wrong with having generalizations associated with the words that allow us to communicate effectively.

When someone says the word "slave", I am going to assume that most likely their relationship has a high degree of power exchange to it, but I am still going to try and ask them questions rather go off those assumptions.

It's when people go from using these loose generalizations that are established by general consensus to get a general idea of who the person is to denouncing their chosen label and claiming their relationship and who they are is bullshit and a fraud.

It's a double edged sword. If you hold to the definitions as the absolute, then it will inevitably lead to dividing people up into the ones who are really slaves and one's who are not really slaves.

And...this unfortanely....is just another form of the One True Way.

I won't ever agree with that, so when people ask me what the words mean, I might give the generalizations I have learned, but still my answer will be...they are ultimately meaningless and you have to decided for yourself what your chosen labels means for you and architect a dynamic that makes you happy.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/12/2008 8:39:08 AM >

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:38:07 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

It's when people go from using these loose generalizations that are established by general consensus to get a general idea of who the person is to denouncing their chosen label and claiming their relationship and who they are is bullshit and a fraud.

It's a double edged sword. If you hold to the definitions as the absolute, then it will inevitably lead to dividing people up into the ones who are really slaves and one's who are not really slaves.

And...this unfortanely....is just another form of the One True Way.


Amen.... I  mean Right On!.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:40:21 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		fr

Heh, I guess since he's the one who decided if I'm a slave or a sub, my answer would be superfluous.

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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Slave versus Submissive - 5/12/2008 8:42:44 AM   
LadyBug1967


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline 		I feel like Dorothy and I just landed in Oz.  Wow!  Dominant . . . Master . . . slave . . . submissive . . . sadist . . .  switch.  Like the old song says, "they're only words and words are all I have."  I'm still fairly new to the lifestyle.  Been here for nearly three years now and this debate has raged on ever since I joined the scene. 
 
Very shortly after I arrived I was collared by a man who calls Himself a Master. He says He's a Master because He owns slaves, not submissives.   I never doubted His abilities for a second.  But I had doubts about being collared from the beginning about being a slave, especially a slave in a poly relationship.  HE should have known better than to collar me when I told Him that monogamy is one of my core values.  I should have known better -- just because I know me!  As time went by and I tried to be what He wanted me to be instead of who I am, I became more and more unhappy until I finally ended the relationship after two years of endless frustration on both O/our parts.  Master taught me that the only difference between a slave and a submissive is that submissives have choices, slaves do not.  Since O/our break-up I've been going to a local dungeon to get my BDSM fix and I've found there is very little difference between the two.  Most Masters/Dominants expect obedience and they usually do to You whatever the heck they want to do to you--unless you safe word out of a situation.  But the guys I've been playing with treat me almost exactly like Master did!  The biggest difference to me is that I'm free now to do and go wherever and whatever I want, when I want, without being accountable to anybody except the man I'm with at that particular moment in time.
 
I know one thing for sure and certain:  I will never wear another collar.  I will never give up my freedom of choice again.  I AM submissive and I love being submissive.  But I did not like having no choices about my own life.  I may someday again be a slave to a man who I am not collared to and I may only consider myself submissive to Him.  Call it whatever the heck You want, slave or submissive.  The only thing I know for sure is that I am monogamous!!!
 
What it comes down to, call yourself whatever the heck you want to.  In the end a relationship either works or it doesn't, and it doesn't matter about "labels" or "titles."  It's about what works for you.
 
Keep it safe, sane and consensual, people.  Don't forget to have fun!
 
 

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 60
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