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Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:03:36 AM   
takenbyhim


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		Deleted

< Message edited by takenbyhim -- 10/19/2005 8:07:47 PM >
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RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:15:09 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		This may not be what you want to hear and I'm not offering a clear suggestion as to what to do, but it has long been my contention that no one knows another until that "other" is under stress.

This, more than anything else in my opinion, is why long startups are important. The vast majority of people have no problems with being kind, supportive, gental and so forth as long as things are going their way. It is then that tide turns that we see the real person underneath.

It is easy to say "well things are just bad," but if we all have one guarantee in this life it is that things will be bad and getting a look at how one handles him- or herself at those times is valuable.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:16:38 AM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		My first instinct is just what you said, "Run for the hills!". You already know what he is really like. You know he is financially strapped and can't really support you and he is still asking you to give up everything and move in with him. Sounds like he doesn't have much to offer really. He is also sounding very much like a petulant child that can't make good and rational decisions. Is this the kind of person you want to tie your life too right now? You're leaving a bad relationship (marriage) and leaping directly into another bad situation? Are you really that masochistic or are you sill enough to believe you're going to change this man? If he's that demanding now, with you not being there; just imagine what he's going to be like when you live there 24/7!

No. You need to back off and reconsider this whole thing and so does the other lady. He needs to resolve some of his problems FIRST and then look at forming this relationship.

As for him forgiving you, ......... well, I guess that's something else I would want to know before I committed to him if I was you. Why don't you wait and see what his reaction is? Are you in that big of a hurry to move in? Do you have to find a place to live now or can you afford to wait and see?

Good luck girl. I hope it all works our for you. Please be very careful. This guy sounds like he could be dangerous.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to takenbyhim)
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RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:18:30 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyhim
We finally are bullied into giving him a timetable......for both of us it was a matter of a couple of months, which he agreed to.

You lose me right here. You have now let him know that he can control you with these tactics, that you will give in to him, even if you blame him for it and feel bad about it, you still don't make him responsible and you don't take responsibility.
quote:


Within days he is raging again that it needs to be right now. He is very fortunate that we both see that he is in some kind of pain and that it must be responsible for this behavior.

Yes it's very nice to be around people who won't hold you responsible for yourself.

quote:

But inside this raging, open wound of a man, is a hurting human being that desperately needs to be loved and nurtured. I take deep breaths as he is raging at me and try to understand that he is not in control of his emotions. He is financially strapped with no health insurance and has care of a young child, who also is affected by this situation.

The problem isn't lack of control of emotions, it's allowing emotions to rule everything- and making excuses all along the way. He sounds like a very typical depressed passive-aggressive user who will suck the life out of everyone who tries to help him instead of taking responsibility.
quote:


1. How does a submissive deal, respectfully, with a Master who is........so unreasonable and so self-destructive.

You tell him that he is being unreasonable and self-destructive and you can't be in a relationship like that. If he gets stuff together, you will gladly be there, but that he needs to stand on his own first.
quote:


2. He is under-employed right now. For those who don't know what that means, it means that his employement situation in no way is meeting his financial responsibilities and he is living a very, very mean existence right now. Are there services out there that would get him some help with his obvious depression? Anything out of the mainstream that someone on this board involved in mental health care might be aware of. Social Services says he makes too much money......believe me......he doesn't make much at all.

He'd have to check his local community, but there are many places he can get help.
quote:


3. Do you think it is possible that after he reads this, and I know he will, that there is any way he will ever forgive me for posting this here.......even annonymously? It won't be the posting........it will be for thinking what I have written, more than it will be about my writing what I have been thinking.

Does it matter? Do you think this cycle of being bullied/feeling sorry/giving in will end?


We don't want to abandon this man or his child. We would like to find a way to help him and serve him without we, ourselves, having to jump into the pit of despair he has found himself in.

Okay folks........I'm getting ready to hit the "post" button.......keep your fingers crossed for me.



(in reply to takenbyhim)
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RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:24:33 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		About making too much money to get aid:
Check state and regional aid. I make too much money for federal aid. I don't have kids so I can't get Medicare/Medical.

i -am- elligible for psychiatric services through my county. They are charging me $51 a -year- and provide counseling and medication.

Encourage him to call around and ask everyone. There -is- help, it's just hard to find.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:29:52 AM   
takenbyhim


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It is easy to say "well things are just bad," but if we all have one guarantee in this life it is that things will be bad and getting a look at how one handles him- or herself at those times is valuable.


GOD! You sound like my mother....LOL (that was a compliment).

But what you say is good advice and I respect it. I know it sounds like I am making excuses for him.....and I guess I do want to give him every benefit of the doubt, but more importantly.........I don't want to abandon him. He needs our help.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:30:10 AM   
luxus


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyhim

We would like to find a way to help him and serve him without we, ourselves, having to jump into the pit of despair he has found himself in.




Oh sugar! Run, like the wind!!! This man needs serious professional help before he'll ever be able to accept your nurturing love. You're going to find yourselves smack in the middle of his pit and unable to extricate yourselves.

Please, please, please believe me, I know whereof I speak. This situation is a damagefest waiting to happen to all of you. Particularly if both you subs have just gotten out of other abusive relationships. And this is abuse, it really, truly is. Regardless of the reasons, it's still abusive behavior. I believe it's only a matter of time before the physical abuse starts. Please leave that situation and encourage the other girl to do so as well. It's dangerous.

Pay close attention to what JohnWarren said.....and remember that this situation can only get worse without professional intervention.

Best of blessings to all of you.

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:33:59 AM   
takenbyhim


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You know he is financially strapped and can't really support you and he is still asking you to give up everything and move in with him.


delete

< Message edited by takenbyhim -- 10/19/2005 8:09:05 PM >

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:37:12 AM   
takenbyhim


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

About making too much money to get aid:
Check state and regional aid. I make too much money for federal aid. I don't have kids so I can't get Medicare/Medical.

i -am- elligible for psychiatric services through my county. They are charging me $51 a -year- and provide counseling and medication.

Encourage him to call around and ask everyone. There -is- help, it's just hard to find.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the kind of information I am hoping to get here.

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 11:42:49 AM   
takenbyhim


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You lose me right here. You have now let him know that he can control you with these tactics, that you will give in to him, even if you blame him for it and feel bad about it, you still don't make him responsible and you don't take responsibility.


EmeraldSlave,

I shudder every time I see your name next to a response to something I have posted. (I love ya though)......your piercing eye can be a bit uncomfortable for us mortal folk sometimes.... and you are right on many points. Being right.......doesn't make this situation any easier to deal with. I do not believe he is really capable at this point of taking responsibility for his behaviour. I will take responsibility for mine, however, and say YES! I CONFESS! SOB, SOB....I AM A CODEPENDENT! God I feel so much better now.

That sounded really sarcastic....didn't it. Sorry. I appreciate what you say, even if it is hard to hear sometimes.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:09:23 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyhim
That sounded really sarcastic....didn't it. Sorry. I appreciate what you say, even if it is hard to hear sometimes.

I do what I can to make up for my lack of empathy...but it is there, and no denying it.

I've lived with a bi-polar depressive woman off her meds with a young girl to take care of before. I know exactly how easy it is to get sucked into it, I know exactly how your intentions are nothing but good and I know exactly how hard it is to turn your back someone who really DOES need help.

But you have to decide whether what you're doing is actually HELPING or ENABLING, and whether it is ultimately going to break YOU down with it.

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:09:44 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		Hugs, hon, for you and the other young lady involved. i have to admit that i agree with the others who have said.."run for the hills".

When y'all are going over what you think might happen, or want to happen, please look at your own words.."bullying"... "extremely hostile, vicious in his condemnation, petulant, bratty and pushes us away, burning bridges in a way that is very difficult to rebuild. We finally are bullied into giving him a timetable"... "he is severely depressed and has no coping skills at all" - these are just a few examples. There's a word for people like hiim, and that's a bully..pure and simple. I have a question, which i pray you won't take the wrong way, but..is it possible that both you and the other sub are "enablers", i.e., taking on the responsibilities of this man so he's "blameless." Enabling is a term used a lot by the people in AA, and other support groups, and i know you said that's not a problem for him, but imho, that's what's happening. You and the other sub maybe got kinda used to this in your previous marriages, and it's probably easier to "go with the flow" rather than cause him grief, because it's what y'all were used to. I know you don't want that again, and I applaud your good sense waiting to see what will happen, in not giving into him entirely. Another thought i have, is please don't combine your finances with his, in any way -- that's not necessary in a D/s relationship or even a vanilla one, especially given his financial situation. He sounds like he has a temper, which is something else to consider.

Sometimes, when we want something badly enough, we're able to overlook the problems and convince ourselves that the problems will go away if things improve, but it sure doesn't sound like this guy is on the road to improvement. Being a Dom/Master is, in my mind, about control, but first she/he is in control of himself, then those around him, if he can. He doesn't sound very in control, however, which would make it difficult for me to submit to him. At the particular time in his life he sounds controlling and verbally, mentally and emotionally abusive. i've no doubt he needs help, and i hope he sees that himself, but if not, there's really nothing that can be done for him. He may "just" be reacting to the stress in his life, but personally, i always have some kind of stress going on, somedays are just worse than others. Please take care..and..

Again..hugs and good luck.. to all of you...

jimini


(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:20:41 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		Stay exactly where you are. Don't give up your home, your life or your freedom. I think you should recommend to the other lady that she do the same thing if you can.

If you really want to help him then follow the advice here and seek out some professional help for him. If you locate the help and can be sure that he can afford it, then it's up to him to use this resource and get treatment. It's NOT something you can force on someone who is unwilling or does not believe they need it.

I will warn you again though; you seem to be a VERY caring and helpful person (typical of a good Sub). That can be a good thing but PLEASE try to help this man from a distance and keep an open mind. Don't get sucked into what he wants you to believe. Look at the facts, use good judgement and be CAREFUL.

I hope this works out for you.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:36:11 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		All I wish to add is from experiance.
Your purse wont help him much, nor you when your finished.
He's threatened self distruction? I had one that did.
Tread carefully..............

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:46:38 PM   
subspaceinMD


Posts: 42
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		being submissive i can understand why you want to try and help this Man, however you cannot fix other people (no matter how hard you try). i would suggest taking a step back and reevaluating exactly what is so great about this man. It seems to me that he is draining both of you emotionally, and he did say himself "to %^$& off and leave him alone", and that is exactly what i would do. Just my opinion, as i believe that you have to find someone worthy of your gift, and he clearly is not.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:48:11 PM   
Kasia


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I do what I can to make up for my lack of empathy...but it is there, and no denying it.


Are you sure its lack of empathy? To me it sounds like common sense.

To OP - There are lots of people who need help out there and we cannot all be Mother Therese. Sometimes giving too much of yourself to others may result in getting yourself become the one that needs help. I wonder if that particular man would be there for you if that happens.


_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 12:58:48 PM   
subversiveone


Posts: 332
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Daddy's Lap
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyhim
The relationship between the Master and the other submissive is even newer (2 weeks).

You are going to go allong with all of this after 2 weeks?
quote:


He speaks to many women on this site and paints a picture of his submissives as women who have "done him wrong",

Red flag #2..What makes you think you 2 are the ONLY 2 he's got "under his wing" dear?
quote:


He makes threats to self destruct when he gets like this.

What? Suicide? Who says you have to save him? Who says you know how and/or can?
quote:


When he is.........calm........he is wonderful. He is intelligent, imaginative, affectionate, sweet. But when he goes to the dark side, it takes the patience of Job to stick by him.

Already said, anyone can act alluring on purpose for a short period of time. He's supposed to be this way the majority of the time.
quote:


I fear this myself as does the other, much younger submissive.
But inside this raging, open wound of a man, is a hurting human being that desperately needs to be loved and nurtured.

So she's younger? What about protecting her?? I think you are the one who's desperate friend.
quote:


he takes his role of Master very much to heart (whether he actually behaves that way or not).

and he proves this howww? by acting totally the opposite most of the time?
quote:


1. How does a submissive deal, respectfully, with a Master who is........so unreasonable and so self-destructive.

Easy. I don't. I'm not here to save humanity nor am i capable. He needs help yes, just not yours.
quote:


3. Do you think it is possible that after he reads this, and I know he will, that there is any way he will ever forgive me for posting this here.......even annonymously? It won't be the posting........it will be for thinking what I have written, more than it will be about my writing what I have been thinking.

Hmmm. Here's what i see in my crystal ball. You are going to keep trying to rationalize this like a good, loving sub who doesn't believe in herself enough to know this isn't right. He'll keep spiraling further and further out of control until he no longer trusts you or wants you and tosses you out. Or you leave. You, in your selfish admiration of him will end up hurting a younger sub.


< Message edited by subversiveone -- 10/19/2005 1:02:03 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 2:55:32 PM   
Guildenstern


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline 		Not to come off too hard but it sounds a bit like what is termed 'the cycle of abuse'

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse


see the link above for some info

quote:

Honeymoon Phase
Characterized by affection, apology, apparent end of violence.
Tension Building Phase
Characterized by poor communication, tension, fear of causing outbursts,
Acting-out Phase
Characterized by outbursts of violent, abusive incidents.

Although it is easy to see the outbursts of the Acting-out Phase as abuse, even the more pleasant behaviors of the Honeymoon Phase serve to perpetuate the abuse.


Perhaps that is a bit extreme, but these are signs to look for. I feel for the guy, sounds like he has a lot of stressors in his life right now. I do question why he would want to take on two subs in addition to the stresses in his life.
With the very little information I have (very little indeed) I would speculate that perhaps this man is bipolar?
without medication and coping techniques and some psychiatric help (of some sort anyway) bp can be a very tough thing to live with. The symptoms usually get worse as one ages, leaving meds that have worked before useless.
I ask because I am very close to several people who are Bipolar and have done quite a bit of research on the subject. It is something to consider anyway.
(I dont consider BP to be a disease, a disorder yes, an illness no.)

regardless, it sounds like many people here have given some very good advice.


_____________________________

Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like a toad, though ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in its head.

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 3:03:06 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		if i know who you are ...its hard to wait for someone to leave their marriage , i understand his grief.

(in reply to takenbyhim)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Petulant, spoiled, bratty - 10/19/2005 3:36:06 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		i work in the mental health field, i see several 'red flag' indicators going on.
subs beware is all i have to say
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

This may not be what you want to hear and I'm not offering a clear suggestion as to what to do, but it has long been my contention that no one knows another until that "other" is under stress.

This, more than anything else in my opinion, is why long startups are important. The vast majority of people have no problems with being kind, supportive, gental and so forth as long as things are going their way. It is then that tide turns that we see the real person underneath.

It is easy to say "well things are just bad," but if we all have one guarantee in this life it is that things will be bad and getting a look at how one handles him- or herself at those times is valuable.



_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 20
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