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RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 7:29:33 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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RL - perhaps my composition was not clear; I feel that there is likely no reason for this search which would fulfil the requirements for probable cause for suspicion - it is for the officers to provide that reason. This seems to me to be a classic fishing trip and that doesnt satisfy the requirement for me.

Where there is proper probable cause, then really its necessary to the securing of evidence that suspects must comply with searches and the likes of DNA testing - but that raises very important issues about self-incrimination as well as other matters.

E

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Post #: 21

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 7:32:59 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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Lady E, prison guards bring drugs INTO the prison. It is the carrot approach. Basically the deal is dont let them escape or kill to many of the other inmates.

Im glad I posted this- I missed the part about a 6k bill!

As to decrim, it wont happen. I joined the crimewatch in my town. The official line is so hard- my views would be a huge disruption. Drugs = cash = gangs = violence= crime.

We need police. We need prison space. We need civility. We also need repect for humans... the thing is- when IS it ok to have this happen? who to?

Albany must have had some serious crime trouble.

(in reply to RealityLicks)

Post #: 22

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 7:38:31 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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If I had my way Rog, drugs would be provided in prison to those who come in addicted, since there is no adequate treatment available to wean people off (here anyway) and they'll likely be addicts again when they leave prison. I'd also provide regular conjugal visits for Mary Jane, to help keep things as stress free as possible. Taking control of the situation like this, reduces the private inmate economy in dealing, and the associated nasties that come with it too.

But regardless of the current law, there would be a civil liberties outcry from the other end of the political spectrum, were we to purposely dope inmates.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 23

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 7:58:58 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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police science and prison ; is a field the public has little understanding of.

they do things for certain reasons. These are the experts.

Granted the lawyer industry sucks, as does poverty and inequities. These professionals have a thankless job.

anyhow the OP is not acceptable.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 24

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 8:06:44 AM

UncleNasty

Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline

[/quote]
Gonna LOL yourself all the way to a police state...
[/quote]

You seem to think we aren't already in a police state.

I define a free society as onein which you can do whatever you want - as long as it doesn't harm another person, or another persons property.

I define a police state as one in which you must ask permission from the gubmint to do anything.

I'd say we're pretty much already there.

Does anyone remember in the Katria aftermath that police, national guard troops and the mercenaries of Black Water USA went around confiscating the weapons of citizens that were merely protecting their property?

How tight does the noose around your neck have to be befroe you admit you're being hanged?

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to firmobeisance)

Post #: 25

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 8:11:00 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Yeah, we recently had a thread where a bunch of people berated me for saying that you have a right to question the orders of police officers. This completely illustrates my point. The pigs (that's what they are) grab this guy off a bus and after putting him through this shit, they have the audacity to make up a resisting arrest charge. It's typical, incompetent police work to make up some bullshit charge in order to save face after a false arrest. Incidents like this, and incidents I have seen are exactly why I don't trust the police as far as I can throw them. I wish Americans would get their balls back and stop thinking they have to kowtow to thugs just because they wear badges.

We recently had a thread where you berated others who were insisting that people find out their actual rights and stand up for them, instead of blindly accepting what you said our rights were and respecting your 'au-thor-it-tie'.

Operating on gossip, rumors, distortions, pseudo-expertise and misinformation isn't being free, it is being a slave to ignorance.

Some of these incidents prove what I have been saying all along... police abuse is an example of what those second guessing would do if they could ever get a badge and a gun and some authority.
.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 26

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 10:28:02 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

What's more disturbing is the view that having a record means you lose the right to be treated humanely. When will people figure out that the way a society treats those at the bottom is every bit as important and moreso than they way they treat those at the top?

That's not good logic.
Someone with a "lengthy criminal record" has proven to society over a long term that they can't be trusted.
Would you let a child abuser watch over your kids?

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Post #: 27

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 11:35:38 AM

RealityLicks

Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

What's more disturbing is the view that having a record means you lose the right to be treated humanely. When will people figure out that the way a society treats those at the bottom is every bit as important and moreso than they way they treat those at the top?

That's not good logic.
Someone with a "lengthy criminal record" has proven to society over a long term that they can't be trusted.
Would you let a child abuser watch over your kids?

The point is, if I see that the criminal justice system scrupulously observes the rights of the worst criminal, I have greater confidence it will do the same for me. That way, I cooperate with that system more fully... in turn makes it that much more effective. If human rights have become the privilege only of those of whom the law enforcers approve, watch out: you may be next.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 28

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 11:40:32 AM

DomAviator

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Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: firmobeisance

For real, that is your final observation as to what happened here? It is precisely because of his previous crimes, which have nothing to do with this incident, that the authorities knew they were safe to flush his civil rights down the toilet, and any exposure of their nefarious activities would produce an overwhelming reaction similar to yours.

Gonna LOL yourself all the way to a police state...

Yes, because per the article the guy has a lengthy criminal record and numerous drug offenses - hence there is probable cause to assume that he was in posession of drugs. The cops obviously had a reason to stop him. They never stop me, the never hassle me, I dont have so much as a traffic ticket. As I said he is lucky he isnt in Texas. In my suburb, which I might add is extremely safe, most people arrested wind up going to the hospital before jail because you dont mouth off to cops around here and you dont come in this town doing shit you shouldnt be doing. "Resisting" is standard and the criminals stay at bay because they know they will not recieve courteous smiling service here and are damned likely to get "the treatment" to go along with their arrest. There are other towns you can commit crimes in where you probably wont recieve a permanent disabilty to go along with your probation. This isnt one of them. We arent as notorious as Pasadena, where you can literally be beaten to death during routine traffic stops, but we are up there on the "Dont fuck around in _____ list". It keeps things safe....

As for the guys rights - fuck him he forefit them on his first conviction, Thats why felons arent even allowed to vote and under texas law probabtioners and paroles can be stopped, searched, or interrogated at any time for any reason with or without cause.

(in reply to firmobeisance)

Post #: 29

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 11:55:23 AM

domahpet

Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
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quote:

LOL LOL LOL Thats funny shit! He should be glad it was Albany NY and not Texas. Texas cops wouldnt have taken him for a colonoscopy they would have stomped on his belly till something popped out - be it drugs or his spleen whichever came first.

i relly love that line!

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(in reply to DomAviator)

Post #: 30

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 12:59:49 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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So in other words DA, Texas prison is known to have no reformative effect whatsoever and no deterrent effect either?

In such case, what are the Texas authorities doing in bothering to first incarcerate and then release offenders? Incarceration has no reformative effect, the possibility of return to incarceration has no deterrent effect.

Surely "hang 'em high" would be a more effective and lower cost approach?

Or is it that the police there derive enjoyment from exercising what appears to be a right to practice according to standards of policing which appear to be more akin to that of the Congo?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 31

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:02:24 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

Operating on gossip, rumors, distortions, pseudo-expertise and misinformation isn't being free, it is being a slave to ignorance.

Some of these incidents prove what I have been saying all along... police abuse is an example of what those second guessing would do if they could ever get a badge and a gun and some authority.

Backpedal all you want, I gave no such advice. I simply said that people have the right to question orders from the police and they do. If a police officer stops me, they better have a damn good reason for it. If they detain me, they better have a damn good reason for it. Anytime a police officer requests to search you, your home, or your vehicle without a warrant than your answer should always be NO.

I don't know why people think they are immune to things like this. Police officers pull this kind of crap on people all the time. I absolutely believe they just grabbed this guy at random and jerked him out of the line of people getting off the bus. I was once pulled over in Louisiana between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. I wasn't speeding, and my car had no malfunctions on it. I wasn't drinking or using drugs. I was 23 years old, and I had a friend with me. The police officer asked to search my car, and I asked him why. He gave me some bullshit about that road being a smuggling route. I told him I didn't smuggle drugs or any other kind of contraband. So, I told him no. Can you guess what happened next? For almost two hours I was threatened with arrest, with having my vehicle impounded, etc., etc. He had a K-9 officer to the scene and went through that entire routine. After all that, I was given a warning not to come back through there again. I never did get a reason for being pulled over.

Not long after that, I saw a story on the news about that same stretch of road. The police were pulling people over at random and searching their cars. They were doing it to seize vehicles in order to fund their department. In the story, there were allegations of the cops actually planting drugs in people's cars just so they could seize it. So I don't trust the police. I don't trust any government official to do the right thing. No one should, and when people start excusing this kind of behavior....they are asking for a police state.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 5/14/2008 1:05:04 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 32

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:03:17 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

So in other words DA, Texas prison is known to have no reformative effect whatsoever and no deterrent effect either?

In such case, what are the Texas authorities doing in bothering to first incarcerate and then release offenders? Incarceration has no reformative effect, the possibility of return to incarceration has no deterrent effect.

Surely "hang 'em high" would be a more effective and lower cost approach?

Or is it that the police there derive enjoyment from exercising what appears to be a right to practice according to standards of policing which appear to be more akin to that of the Congo?

E

There goes that jingoistic hatemongering agian... how uncivilized. Sure you aren't an American?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/14/2008 1:04:06 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 33

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:04:55 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

There goes that total failure to comprehend again. Are you sure you want to pick an argument with me right now? Isnt it time for your meds?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 34

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:22:02 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Operating on gossip, rumors, distortions, pseudo-expertise and misinformation isn't being free, it is being a slave to ignorance.

Some of these incidents prove what I have been saying all along... police abuse is an example of what those second guessing would do if they could ever get a badge and a gun and some authority.

Backpedal all you want, I gave no such advice. I simply said that people have the right to question orders from the police and they do. If a police officer stops me, they better have a damn good reason for it. If they detain me, they better have a damn good reason for it. Anytime a police officer requests to search you, your home, or your vehicle without a warrant than your answer should always be NO.

I don't know why people think they are immune to things like this. Police officers pull this kind of crap on people all the time. ....

.... So I don't trust the police. I don't trust any government official to do the right thing. No one should, and when people start excusing this kind of behavior....they are asking for a police state.

You are embarrassing yourself.

Here are your exact words.

quote:

A cop can't shoot you legally because you refuse to take your hands out of your pockets. I don't know where you got that morsel of knowledge at, but it's not true.

After being provided with many examples from court rulings to actual cases, showing that your blanket statement was not always true, and that there are times where it would be very much legal for a cop to shoot someone in self defense under those circumstances, you revealed that you didn't even recognize the most fundamental Supreme Court ruling on the matter, claimed you knew all about it but couldn't come up with the name, and ran away 'bored', only to dredge it up again here.

In that same thread, you were repeatedly disingenuous about what the law is, about law enforcement not being dangerous, and dredged up straw man after straw man claiming that those who debunked your bogus information were saying that police brutality was wonderful, followed by logical fallacies from projection to false claims of your own expertise.

In the midst of all of that, you refused to answer questions about why you wouldn't do something proactive like Diop and his project.

In other words, you trotted out every single behavior that corrupt cops do when caught ...spin, denial, mis-information, appeals to authority, refusing to admit to their own behaviors, etc.

Which is why I don't trust self proclaimed 'experts' on the internet to tell me what the cops can and can't legally do...I find out the facts about my rights for myself....

And when I read cases such as the OP, I'm comparing the details to benchmarks such as previous USSC bus cases, the original airport scenario search and seizure ruling, the latest standard for linking minor offenses to expanding a search, etc., and then seeing how the rationalizations offered up compare.

Sorry that you have such a problem with others thinking for themselves.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/14/2008 1:32:58 PM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 35

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:30:25 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

the cops went into this guys anus, they had the wrong guy. meaning, any male could be that wrong guy.

as to rail roading people, IMO it happens.

as to tough on crime, IMO it is effective.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 36

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:36:12 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
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Slaveboy, I see where you are coming from BUT in practicality you dont say "no" to some cops. I have repeatedly mentioned Pasadena, Texas. Less than a year ago a man was released from jail at 1:42 am with 11 cents in his pocket. The bars close at 2am, but that doesnt matter anyway because that part of Pasadena is dry. Shortly after 2am he was arrested for "public intoxication" and in the process of "resisting arrest" was "knocked to the ground" in which he broke EVERY SINGLE RIB and he died shortly thereafter in a holding cell from two punctured lungs and a lacerated liver. There was an investigation and despite the fact that the guy managed to "get drunk" in a dry town in less than 20 minutes with a budget of 11 cents - no officer wrongdoing was found. According to the Houston Chronicle there have been 138 "in custody" deaths at the Harris County jails. Not too long ago a college kid was detained on "posession of marijuana" (not dealing were talking a dime bag) and he died in custody. In many parts of Texas, esp Pasadena, there are THREE and only three correct answers to a cop - Sir Yes Sir, Sir No Sir, or Sir This Motorist Doesnt Know But Will Find Out Sir". I mean HPD SHOT AND KILLED A CIA AGENT with his ID in his hand because he didnt comply with thier instructions and tried to make a phone call! I understand the Bill of Rights, the need for warrants and probable cause, the right to deny search etc but just try it in certain places and you will go out out to buffalo bayou for a swim with the gators. Pearland PD used a stun gun on a kid over 100 times for breaking curfew. You dont fuck with some cops , esp not southern ones. Asking "Why did you pull me over?" in Pasadena will get your face bashed in.

Also, the racism in some cases is unreal so if you appear to be anything other than a straight WASP good ol boy god help you. I was in an accident about two years ago up in Montgomery County. My ex wife was wrong! She made a right turn into a parkinglot from the left lane and we hot hit by the vehicle in the right lane - driven by a hispanic. The cops NEVER EVEN CHECKED HER LICENSE! In fact they had a store owner get us a cold drink, while we sat under a tree and answered questions. The other driver was handcuffed face down on the pavement - which in Texas heat probably gave him burns! To Laura's credit she tried to accept responsibility for the accident but the cop wasnt having it... All they saw was a white blonde woman in a BMW was run into by hispanic in a beat up old truck. The cop even said "well maam if hed been on the right side of the river he wouldnt have run into ya'll now would he?" You just dont piss off some cops - even if youre legally right.

As for LE's queston - there is nothing rehabilitative about the Texas penal system it is punitive. The emphasis is on suffering not rehab, and once someone is in it they are forever labeled - even for minor things. I dated a woman who wound up on probation for some traffic violations, (basically she missed a speed zone in a nothing small town she didnt know existed and blew through a school zone at 60 mph over the limit) She 1) Got dragged from the car by her hair, 2) it took me, a lawyer, and a bondsman almost 18 hours to get her out, and 3) she wound up on probation at a cost of $200 a month + programs and tests. (Even though it wasnt alcohol related she had to go to AA, she had to have drug testing, she couldnt leave the county without PO permission, had to carry a probation card, we could no longer go to a bar or club, she could be stopped on the street and have her purse dumped on the hood, pockets turned out etc.... It was a MESS) Thats misdemeanor "reckless driving" shit - wind up in a Texas state pen and you might as well kill yourself.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 37

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:39:45 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

There goes that total failure to comprehend again. Are you sure you want to pick an argument with me right now? Isnt it time for your meds?

E

I'll be happy to argue against hatemongering BS whenever I see it... if you feel compelled to argue in favor of hatemongering and intolerant comments once again, go for it.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 38

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:42:04 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

So DA are you just telling it as it is, or supporting this sort of approach?

As much as people here go on about the UK being a police state under constant surveillance, any police officer here who pulled that sort of stunt would be kicked out (and they have been). Theyre often caught on camera when they do misbehave!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 39

RE: drug police put cam in worng mans anus - 5/14/2008 1:46:20 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

It really isnt my problem if you dont have the ability to read what are obviously provocative comments and realise the purpose of making them.

Tell you what - put me on block would you, and spare yourself the obvious distress that my debate style provokes in you?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 40

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