RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice

RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/18/2008 8:17:26 PM)
Wow LAM, nice to see you. I think I can put it another way though. You simply can't expect people to be nice when you invade their country, bomb their schools and hospitals and use weapons that pollute their environment (DU rounds). T

DomAviator -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/18/2008 9:44:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or But a soldier is taught not to think, but to shoot. He is told who his enemy is and that is something that I would never accept. Actually, what you say is partially true. A soldier (sailor, airman, marine or coastguardsman) does not make policy - they are an instrument of policy. They are a tool used to further America's politcical goals via the projection of leathal force on whoever, wherever, and however they are directed by the commander in chief and the officers appointed above them. I didnt need a reason, an explanation, a justification, some moral explanation, or any of that other mamby pamby bullshit. All I needed was a target and a lawful order to attack and destroy that target. While I obviously never had the chance to (only two flight crews in history have) I was qualifed to "deploy special weapons" - ie to drop nukes. The B61 Mod 7 had a yield of 340 KT - roughly 22-1/2 times larger than the Hiroshima bomb. On the right target - dropping one could kill 10 million people and as long as the proper orders came through the National Command Authority I would do so without a moments hesitation or delay. Even a conventional mission meant the delivery of up to 18,000 pounds of explosives onto various targets - where there may or may not be civilians, including women and children. I didn't pick the targets I prosecuted them. The Navy gave me an airplane to fly and a switch to throw. They taught me how, they told me when and where, and I didnt need to know why. It didn't matter. That was decided above my paygrade. The only thing a soldier needs is an unqualified, unwavering, unconditional belief in the unified chain of command. They are supposed to be warriors, not philosophers. Exactly the reason we need John McCain as President. He is the only one of the three who actually has a clue how to deal with an enemy and how to fight a war. We are afterall at war and these "people" are the enemy...

Termyn8or -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 12:26:03 AM)
It's hard to tell where you're coming from DA "All I needed was a target and a lawful order to attack and destroy that target" That does, however, seem to prove my point though Qualo. Smedly Butler. Have a look. T

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 12:30:04 AM)
quote: Exactly the reason we need John McCain as President. He is the only one of the three who actually has a clue how to deal with an enemy and how to fight a war. We are afterall at war and these "people" are the enemy... a president is just one guy.... he perhaps know how to act..but do the people below him. And it would be nice if there is a president that knows more then just war of course. btw what is the average age in the US army? Sometimes I think these soldiers are way to young.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 12:33:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rubberpet Oh great! Middle Eastern countries are going to hate the United States now and declare jihad on us. Wait...weren't they already like that decades ago?[8\|] And some of Africa (all except South africa propably)....great parts of Asia (where even more muslims live then in the Arabia).

Irishknight -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 3:45:51 AM)
This was almost as bad a mistake as being caught shooting a bible in the bible belt. At least the Arabs would give him a mocktrial before executing him. The Women's Ministry Organization would just beat him to death with handbags and burn his heretical body. Honestly. had he done this somewhere else, it wouldn't have been an issue. Hell, I'd like to take a few shots at both the Quran and the Bible. Those two books have caused more trouble in this world because of what people THINK they say than anything else in history.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:28:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Those two books have caused more trouble in this world because of what people THINK they say than anything else in history. ...were an excuse to cause problems.......and shooting sadly wouldn't make that go away. At least they send the guy home....good solution....hopefully enough

kittinSol -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:31:47 AM)
Perhaps it was a ploy by the soldier in question to get repatriated?

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:32:37 AM)
mmm yes..but at risk of loosing his life....well when he stays..he could loose it too

kittinSol -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:35:21 AM)
These guys get desperate... they go crazy over there. Some of them will do anything to leave. And the rest of the world prays they will.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:37:04 AM)
I hope they all can go home soon, that would..hopefully..sove a lott of problems. Unless those terrorist think they won..and continue

LadyEllen -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:37:42 AM)
I find it amazing that someone as daft as this is given a gun in the first place. E

kittinSol -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:40:28 AM)
It's been confirmed by a few posters already that it doesn't require a brain to become a soldier and that all they need to do is shoot when they're told to. Boom boom. Often, they'll shoot when they haven't been asked to - but that's 'collateral damage'.

Owner59 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 4:59:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm not going to give an opinion, save this: Folks, please remember that there are many people on these boards who are personally affected by the difficulties of these times. Please use your words with a smidgeon of understanding, and a touch of empathy. My best to you and yours, wherever they are in the world this night. Thanks LadyPact. A few words of muturity and wisdom were needed , following the previous bloviations. ~FR~ The apologists trying to defend this stupidity aren`t helping by comparing it to the fucked up things a few nutters did there,like de-capitation or murder. The two don`t have anything in common and don`t compare. This is the US military.We`re not the terrorists and shouldn`t be compared with them.We have slightly higher standards. Using that logic,anything could be justified, when compared to the fucked up things a few terrorist do. This is not a race to the bottom. And this notion that all or even most of the people in Iraq are terrorists and to be treated as such,is simplistic knuckle-dragging nonsense.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 5:03:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 We`re not the terrorists and shouldn`t be compared with them.We have slightly higher standards. that view depends on which side you fight or support. did you read the news about the planned bombing of the hotel with all journalists in Bagdad? Also the USA army. Don;t get me wrong..I support the NATO/coallition, but we should stay realistic.

DomAviator -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 5:12:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol It's been confirmed by a few posters already that it doesn't require a brain to become a soldier and that all they need to do is shoot when they're told to. Boom boom. Often, they'll shoot when they haven't been asked to - but that's 'collateral damage'. Two points - first "collateral damage" isnt "shooting when you arent asked to that is "unauthorized engagement". If I saw a non-military vehicle driving down the road, and decided unilaterally to roll in on it then that is "unauthorized engagement". (Unless the mission was to find "targets of opportunity") By contrast "collateral damage" is that damage that unavoidably occurs secondary to the prosecution of a righteous target - for example if I am sent to bomb a surface to air missle site that just so happens to be set up on a front lawn in a heavily populated residential area or an anit-aircraft gun sitting on top of a hospital roof - obviously the people living in that neighborhood or staying in that hospital are going to die. They are "collateral damage" in that they are secondary to the target but the release of the weapons is fully authorized. Just like when we slaughter weddings - contrary to media reports that is NOT collateral damage as the strikes are made in accordance with the rules of engagement which are to "enage if ground fire is noted". Its not OUR fault that they like to fire AK-47's into the air to celebrate, Small arms fire directed skyward and seen by aircraft will get you killed. My suggestion is if they want to live to bang their bride, instruct the guests to leave the AK-47's at home and ammend the wedding custom to throwing rice cause if I see muzzzle flashes from the ground then the group generating them is getting a JDAM right up the happy couples ass. Secondly - the "it doesnt require a brain" comment is the most ignorant and offensive thing I have ever heard. Soldiers are hardly stupid or brainless. They operate incredibly complex equipment under arduous conditions. (Try making a night carrier trap sometime with a battle damaged aircraft, disarming improvided explosive devices, building a bridge in less than an hour while under fire, keeping an ICBM ready 24/7/365, or running the nuclear reactors aboard a ship or sub.) HOWEVER, rather than "brainless" they are well trained, well disciplined, and operate above self interest. Dropping that bomb doesnt make me "stupid" it makes me loyal to the oath I took at the time I was commissioned.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 5:17:31 AM)
quote: Its not OUR fault that they like to fire AK-47's into the air to celebrate, Small arms fire directed skyward and seen by aircraft will get you killed IT is not their fault either that foreigners fly in THEIR air. anyway.... for both sides it would be nice the war would stop..... there is only one group laughing Al Qaeda.

DomAviator -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 5:34:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 IT is not their fault either that foreigners fly in THEIR air. anyway.... for both sides it would be nice the war would stop..... there is only one group laughing Al Qaeda. Its not THEIR AIR, they are occupied. They lost the war and are under military occupation. If they want to live they will comply with the rules of the occupying force. Al Queda isn't laughing - tens of thousands of them have gone over there to liberate their bretheren and have been killed there. Thats exactly what we wanted, fight the battle on muslim soil rather than over the skies of NY or Washington DC or a field in PA.

Justme696 -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 5:37:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 IT is not their fault either that foreigners fly in THEIR air. anyway.... for both sides it would be nice the war would stop..... there is only one group laughing Al Qaeda. Its not THEIR AIR, they are occupied. They lost the war and are under military occupation. If they want to live they will comply with the rules of the occupying force. Al Queda isn't laughing - tens of thousands of them have gone over there to liberate their bretheren and have been killed there. Thats exactly what we wanted, fight the battle on muslim soil rather than over the skies of NY or Washington DC or a field in PA. yes occupied...lol..you got it now that is why they shoot ;) muslim soil? Wow....that is soemthing different then fighting terrorisme not? Or..or...or...sigh..did they lie about the reason to the world?

rulemylife -> RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice (5/19/2008 6:15:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol You're fairly certain about something? Do you see how that isn't necessarily consistent with fact? Fact is, the double-standard you are referring to is a product of your imagination and of the propaganda you hear from the strictly American media you trust as your unique source of information. Have you looked into alternative news sources? How frequently, for example, have you seen televised images of the one hundred thousand Iraqi civilians that have been killed since the US invasion of their country? War is atrocious; it's even worse when it's completely unecessary. But guess what? The soldiers that are dying in Iraq chose to go there. Their fate may be tragic, but not as tragic, in my eyes, as the deaths of the innocent civilians who die in their dozens of thousands. Perhaps it's time to broaden your informative horizon? Just a suggestion... (Do you know who invented algebra and the numbers you use every day?) Maybe it's time to broaden yours. This is just a small, recent sample of the progressive and enlightened Muslim culture. http://www.startribune.com/world/19054054.html Oh, and this one's always a favorite, direct from the country that gave us 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

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