RE: Shaping and Molding

RE: Shaping and Molding (Full Version)

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laura2161 -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:32:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave One school, is the I'm gonna break you down (literally) and make you nothing and rebuild you however I want line of thinking. Yeah and that to me is very negative. If you (general you) find nothing appealing about me to begin with, then whats the point? I mean hell, I most definitely am not perfect, but Im also not a blank slate.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:35:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol The thing with the Pygmalion obsession is that the sculptor runs the risk that his statue will shun him once he has finished perfecting and polishing her. Yeah, but at least she kissed Pygmalion back with lips of flesh, and they got married. Besides, it was really Aphrodite that Made it all happen anyways! Think this says alot about the power of Love!

MadRabbit -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:37:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave What the Hell is really so bad about a "Fixer Upper"...? Motivation and the will to change is something that has to come internally, or else you will always be dragging and pushing them along...or in a lot of cases, no real change will ever occur. It's the difference between the word "support" and the word "fix" in this connotation. Edited to Add : It's pretty arrogant to think that you can really do anything to "fix" someone's internal issues...which why I think it constantly leads to problems when people try and do it. All you can do is "support" them as they deal with the issues themselves. Often it's not the lack of motivation or will that is holding somebody back. It's their own fears, sense of worth, or belief in what they can do, is where the problems lays. If you feel that this "arrogant"? Honestly? To take somebody, and help fix there sense of value? Worth? To have them face their own fears? Nope. But that's called "supporting" someone. Your "supporting" them in their endeavor to "fix" themselves. They are the one facing their fears and internal issues, you are not doing it for them. It's incredibly arrogant to think that you can take someone who has internal issues and "fix" them, because if they don't want to "fix" themselves, then you aren't going to do shit.

MadRabbit -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:41:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit "Fixing" someone because they aren't "good" enough to be with you as they are now. "Fixing" by no implies what you just stated. Seems like this word "fixing" also carries a negative meaning for some people as well. "Fixing" implies taking something that is broken and...well...."fixing" it. "Supporting" someone is encouraging and giving them help to take what is broken and "fix" it themselves. How do you as an external influence "fix" an internal lack of confidence and self worth? Nail it back together with a hammer? Put some special Neosporin Anti-Low Esteem Cream on it and cover it with a bandaid? You can enlighten them, educate it them, and maybe tell them how great they are, but unless they internalize it, your just trying to hammer nails into cement. That's why I called it "supporting". Your giving them the hammer and nails, but they still got to put it together.

kittinSol -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:41:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave Yeah, but at least she kissed Pygmalion back with lips of flesh, and they got married. Besides, it was really Aphrodite that Made it all happen anyways! Think this says alot about the power of Love! How can anyone compete against such romanticism :-)?

Prinsexx -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:48:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave For submissive/slave types; "What does being shaped and molded actually mean to you personally" It means changing me. It means punishing me or rewarding me to try to do that. I am one-step ahead of the game. This is about power exchange and not power struggle or power over. I have been in enough vanilla relationships where so-called molding and shaping was the main dynamic not to want it replicated in a bdsm dynamic. Many dominants have tried it 'on' me and it doesn't work. There's a different sort of play I am into.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:49:16 PM)
quote: Nope. But that's called "supporting" someone. Your "supporting" them in their endeavor to "fix" themselves. They are the one facing their fears and internal issues, you are not doing it for them. It's incredibly arrogant to think that you can take someone who has internal issues and "fix" them, because if they don't want to "fix" themselves, then you aren't going to do shit. Well, if somebody sincerely and fully submits wanting become exactly what you want them to be... then it's not too arrogant. Notice i used the words sincerely and fully both together.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:52:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave Yeah, but at least she kissed Pygmalion back with lips of flesh, and they got married. Besides, it was really Aphrodite that Made it all happen anyways! Think this says alot about the power of Love! How can anyone compete against such romanticism :-)? Really simple, shoot me and burn a harlequin romance novel, and celebrate aftwards.

MadRabbit -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 3:57:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave quote: Nope. But that's called "supporting" someone. Your "supporting" them in their endeavor to "fix" themselves. They are the one facing their fears and internal issues, you are not doing it for them. It's incredibly arrogant to think that you can take someone who has internal issues and "fix" them, because if they don't want to "fix" themselves, then you aren't going to do shit. Well, if somebody sincerely and fully submits wanting become exactly what you want them to be... then it's not too arrogant. Notice i used the words sincerely and fully both together. Nope, but that's a different context then what I am saying. All I am is getting at, despite the perception created by the Big, Bad, All Powerful, Dominant Ego, there is a lot of limitations on what you can do to "fix" another person through your merits alone and those limitations need to be realized.

TreasureKY -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 4:12:19 PM)
SimplyMichael's eloquent metaphor is very much how I see the situation. However, to encompass the situation described by Owner, I would take Michael's description and expand it to say that it sounds as if Owner didn't take a daisy and shape and mold it into a rose... but rather found a rose living amongst the weeds and by transplanting and nurturing it, encouraged that rose to achieve it's fullness. So much of the support given and attributed to "change" isn't really the person being changed, but instead their environment and circumstances being changed. For example, I might consider myself to be a palm tree... while I can live and grow in the environs of Texas, I flourish and thrive in a tropical environment. My relationship with Firm is my tropics. [;)] Edited to add: I have the same negative feelings about "shaping and molding". In fact, I addressed this very thing in the first journal entry I made on my profile... The first and most important is please take note that there is nothing wrong with me... I do not need fixing, nor do I need anyone to make me into the "best" person I can be. I take personal offense at this type of statement as it implies that I'm somehow of inferior quality or less than acceptable right now. I do have a modicum of self-esteem, happen to think I'm a pretty great person as I am, and possess a healthy portion of respect for myself. Should anyone desire to develop a relationship with me, I would hope that they do so because they already like and accept me for who I am. What I expect from a Dominant (yes, expect), is that he will inspire and encourage me to fit HIS needs more fully.

AquaticSub -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 4:29:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave What the Hell is really so bad about a "Fixer Upper"...? My problem: It's always the BIG AWESOME DOM fixing the addict/depressed/overweight/ugly subbie. I'm not perfect but neither is Valyraen. You could say he's "fixed me up" but you can also say I've "fixed him up" too. For every dominant talking about how they molded their submissive or slave into something better and perfect, I'm willing to bet that they were shaped into something more beautiful as well. It isn't one person doing the molding, it's two. If someone comes at me with the attitude that they don't need to be changed, that I can't help them, that they are already perfect... then they need to be elsewhere. I don't want perfect.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 4:38:15 PM)
i think the idea of having my hidden potential unearthed...being helped by a partner to become more comfortable with myself is great. lLarning how to please and serve a partner...knowing what He finds pleasing, and doing those things; there are few things in life i enjoy more...however, there can be a dark side. i've had experience with One who thought i needed to be "broken", and that can sometimes be mistaken for molding or shaping a submissive type. My wit, humor, strength, self-confidence were all seen as flaws. He wanted to change everything about me that was my "self" and build the perfect submissive/slave. Problem being, no lobotomy was actually performed, so the total psyche makeover was impossible. Of course, having one's head space played with is nice....but had i become what He wanted, i would have been at some point faking...and i think that, not my witty remarks, would have been the really insulting thing about me.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 5:36:14 PM)
I'm somewhat suprised that shape and mold carry the negative connotations that is does for a number of people. Things such as assignments, punishment, rules, training, exploring and pushing limits, protocols, diets, journal entries, even clothing, and you name it. So many threads and topics that in many ways have something to do with Shaping or Molding in some sense or manner. Now mind you, everything has a limit, or there are simply limits to how far one can go or take things. Basically what two people agree upon and can be worked out. Even Doms are shaped in the process of everything that happens. Yes! very true. Both sides of the fence have limits, both sides of fence become shaped and molded as the result of a relationship. Both sides of fence are effected and changed. Hell, I have seen posts on here, where Masters had to release a Slave, because the slave wanted to experience a higher level of S&M or do things that the Master/Owner had a difficult time in doing. Countless reasons for releasing somebody. In many senses, what one shaped and molded became something different or more in the end. The Outgrowing of a relationship. I've read posts from sub/slaves where they grew, got what the needed from the relationship, however had to move on inorder to further grow. I've read some really amazing things posted over the last year even. Doms and subs (whatever label), growing and experiencing, both being shaped and molded. Concepts such a micromanagement of diet. Yes, this sounds like a harsh thing, however it makes a Dom more aware of their own bad eating habits by being in control of somebody elses. Case in point where both parties become shaped and molded in the process. I do have to say this, that there appears to be a number of people who have been literally burned by other people, that a lot of things now carry negative meaning on a personal level. However, some people have had some very great meaningful results and experiences. So the personal meaning of the words at times conflict. Somebody tossed the meaning of a Dog thing. LOL, funny that he did one. Because I use that same anology often. What is a dog to you? What is the mental image you have on one? Breed, Size, Shape, color and etc... chances are it's some family pet or neighborhood dog. Something that you make a mental connection with during your life time. Then people's preferences in Animals vary, some people look at some breeds as being worthless animals, other people look at the same breeds with complete love and affection.

KnightofMists -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 5:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave For all the Dom/mes out there; "What does shaping and molding somebody mean to you on a personal level" anything that affects/conditions a person in any particular way. Some times this can be good.. sometimes bad and sometimes it just is.

TreasureKY -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:10:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave I'm somewhat suprised that shape and mold carry the negative connotations that is does for a number of people. I can't speak for all submissives but I suspect that much of the distaste stems from the impression that many here claiming to be dominants appear to only be looking for a solution to all their prior relationships woes. They want the benefits of a relationship but do not wish to actually develop a relationship... they want a living, breathing blow-up doll and have gotten the impression that CM and sites like it are somewhere they can shop for one. In that context, the "shaping and molding" line feels an awful lot like bargain hunting. I wouldn't like to be treated like a bargain bin item... something slightly flawed or needing repair that will have to do because the top-of-the-line item was either unavailable or out of your price range.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave For all the Dom/mes out there; "What does shaping and molding somebody mean to you on a personal level" It means to take someone and make them into something else. I don't particularly like the phrase. I want them to shape and mold themselves into something better than what they are. That is an indication of emotional, spiritual and psychological maturity to me. Master Fire

Shawn1066 -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:25:22 PM)
In the Bible it says, as I recall, "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Basically, I take this as meaning that all of our relationships alter and shape us in a variety of ways. My Owner just has a much greater role in shaping me. It's also important to remember that I have a role in her personal growth as well. We're both better off for our relationship, and we've both been irrevocably altered by our relationship. We can't go back to who we were before. That's just how things work. She's sharpened me, and God-willing I've sharpened her as well. DV's Fox

SimplyMichael -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:26:28 PM)
Again, it is all perspective... There is a vast gulf between "I want to fix others rather than examine myself" and "healing others helps me heal myself".

Leatherist -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:39:12 PM)
It means you live in a fantasy world-totally divorced from any idea of what human nature is all about.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Shaping and Molding (5/20/2008 6:40:30 PM)
I've often said on these boards and off these boards that I was broken when my Master and I met. I can't say I've ever felt like a bargain (although with the effort and energy he has give me, maybe I should have been!). He saw a potential in me that I didn't see, and helped me to open the doorways to myself so I could crash through my inner walls and burst out. When I think of molding and shaping I think of something like MichaelAngelo's Pieta'. Take a beautiful strong rock of marble and cut away the pieces that are getting in the way of the beauty beneath. I've never thought of the term "shaping and molding" as negative or derrogatory. Parent's shape and mold their offsprings' minds all the time. I don't see it as an Owner taking one thing and creating something else from it. I see, at least in my case, my Master taking the essence that was me, guiding me to cut away the unnecessary crap, and letting my inner being shine through. For me, this wasn't simply a method of encouraging me to be myself. It was hard work for both of us, and both of us wanted it.

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