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Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 11:59:48 AM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I have seen in many threads that the Dominant's are conforming to what is expected that a sub/slave's ideas of a what a good Dominant should be......In this sense are they actually modeling all Dominants to become something more accepted in the western romance novels........they we are to become something like knights in shining armor and if we dont conform to their standards then we are considered outcasts......I have seen many threads that if you are a "softy" you'll tend to get much further within the sub/slave population........I just wanted everyone else's take on this subject

Master Six

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:07:26 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		<deleted for obvious reasons>

< Message edited by smilezz -- 10/23/2005 9:15:11 PM >

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:08:51 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

they we are to become something like knights in shining armor and if we dont conform to their standards then we are considered outcasts......

I don't think outcasts is the right word -- more likely is if you don't conform to someone else's idea of what you should be then they may say you aren't a "twue" dominant.

I can't say whether or not others are conforming; perhaps some have a knight in shining armor kink and it looks like there is a market for that. I've never been very good at conforming though; such expectations usually motivate me to behave in exactly the opposite manner.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:20:03 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I don't believe that a Dom or Domme being considerate of a subs needs or desires is 'conforming' in any way.

I go to great lengths to make My sub happy. That's hardly conforming. That's keeping My sub happy. Why would I make My sub miserable? He's a treasure; his happiness matters to Me. Making him miserable will send him down the road to someone else and that is certainly not where I want My treasure to be.

I still get what I want, when I want. His needs do not always come first. Duh.

If that makes Me a Mistress in Shining Armour, I'll take it!

TexasMaam

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:22:03 PM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		Each individual relationship is different. If you do not meet a potential partner's expectations, he or she will pass you by. The great thing about life is that there are so many other opportunities that being passed by by one person really doesn't matter much. However, if an entire group tends to have certain expectations, then you run the risk of being an outcast if you do not fit in with the group.

It seems like there are two problems...one is that submissives are conforming to an idea of what submission should be and the other problem is that dominants are conforming to an idea of what is expected of them. I'm sure both are occuring on some level. However, there are a lot of submissives who are conforming to what they believe a dominant is expecting of them.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:22:13 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I think that each of us needs to maintain hir own standard. Our standard is strict, but civilized and high in protocol. That may work for one person, but not for someone else. We don't do "play dates". We only work with people who are looking for a long-term, committed relationship. That may work for Mr. A, but imply -way- too much commitment for Ms R.

Clearly, Mr. A and Ms. R both are looking for something. We're not going to fit for both of them, so it make sense that there needs to be someone else out there who is going to fit the other. We like the men that we are involved with to be strong -and- be gentlemen, irrelevant of whether they are dominant or submissive. We know those type of men are out there, because we've had two of them in our lives already. We don't expect -every- man, or every dom, or every submissive male to be those things, though -- and the fact that not all of them are isn't any kind of detriment -- because we also know that there are other people out there who want different things and like different attitudes and behaviors.

Any time we involve ourselves in a community, there is going to be a "pull" from the gravitational "center" of the community... the individuals who form the center of the bell-curve for the particular population being polled. Whether an individual falls in the range of what is expected by the "bell curve" or not is completely up to hir. For us, we tend to range somewhere on the outer edges of the bell curve -- not at the far ends, but not in the middle either. We're comfortable there, and don't feel the need to explain ourselves to anyone who isn't being considered as part of our household. For anyone being considered for our household, we are obligated to spill all the beans, over our "getting to know you" time, about who and what we are, and how we operate. Either they'll like it and stay, or they'll find they're not interested and move on. In the same way, either we'll find them compatible or we'll show them the door.

Be true to yourself. Some will love you, some will hate you, but you'll always be able to face yourself in the mirror.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 10/23/2005 12:29:15 PM >

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:35:44 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		There does seem to be an overall "Politically Correct" expectation that the majority hold.

The real beauty of diversity is that if you merely hold true to your personal standards,and express them with fortright honesty-you can probably eventually find a match.

One trend I DO notice is wishy washy people "molding" to other's expectations just to get into someone's pants. It happens on both sides-and it's amoral,rather than honest. A quick fix for hedonists.

Probably one reason so many of these bdsm relationships fizzle and die so quickly. if one settles,the end result will be resentment in about 90% of cases. Even if you can lie convincingly to another-the lies you tell yourself are the ones that will eventually tear your heart out.

It's only a matter of time.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 12:39:43 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I brought this subject up as I have seen many submissive say they are the ones in control of the relationships through their wants and desires........im not saying by any means ignore the wants and desires....but there is a huge number of subs/slaves that are saying that if thier individual wants and desires arent met then they will simply walk.........viewing these statements on the boards leads me to believe that there is a power shift in the dynamics of any BDSM relationship........I am Gorean so I inquire about this subject as I see it through my eyes........I dont quite understand if the desires arent being met then the relationship is considered not to be healthy...I can see this but in the same token did the sub/slave not give their word in their submission to their Owner? I have seen many threads where some are saying it is ok to find another instead of working through what ever behaviour needs to modified seeing that the Dominant is in the wrong for ignoring the wants and desires of the sub/slave....I see only one side of the story most times and not both........Is not the Dominate not the one whom decides which wants and desires are to met in the time frame they choose? I have even seen where that the sub/slave has had their limits pushed and repelled the advance by the Dominate threating that this isnt to be crossed or else....confusing as to whom is really in control......

Master Six

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 1:04:28 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Six,you get what you put up with.

Some use submission as an excuse for kinky sex. Hard limiting housework tends to be rather telling.

Others take it quite seriously, and really want to cede control-to someone who will not abuse it and screw them over. I don't find that expectation to be unreasonable.

If one dislikes being used as a female's disposable sex toy (rather akin to a vibrator that wears out) -just don't go there. Patience and honesty are a virtue in seeking what one desires-there are no quick fixes for a GOOD match.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/23/2005 1:07:35 PM >

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 1:09:18 PM   
Belladonna82


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		:) Well, from the slave of the OPer.....i must agree but here is why i think so....Master has had me search the profiles for a possiable sister slaves....and many of the profiles i see say plainly...they are searching for the "one" and that they have certain limits like...lol my fav....."no touching my butt" lol i mean come on if Master gets the urge to give you a little pat on the butt so be it...this my opinion...and the way i was trained....the "Master" is in control and its his directions that matter....i believe Masters /Mistresses should have a strong hand...lol excuse me for my terminology but pussy footing around so the slave wont run for the borders lol...Again this is just a opinion...lol opinions are like rear ends...everyone has one...Masters or slaves lol....

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 1:12:56 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Running for the borders is a pretty funny way to say it.

I tend to chase wussies and pollyannas off in the first or second conversation. I enjoy the adventurous ones, with a bit more backbone than that-not a lil church girl with delusions of kink granduer.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 1:27:40 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		exactly what I was thinking...it would now seem that the Dominants are conforming to a sub/slaves requirement in order to play........as we have both said it is paying to play........leaves one not if both unfulfilled.........

Master Six

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I wish you well

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 1:29:06 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Humans are Humans, and All seek happiness. This will and does include anyone from the BDSM venue or Gorean or any other label you choose to adhere to. I have read just as many BDSM storys of relationship demise as I have Gorean. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

There is no..absolutely no guarantee that the relationship you now have..and feel it is the absolute right one and only way, will infact be there 5yrs from now no matter what your beliefs are, honor, or anything else. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

Everyone be they bdsm sub/slaves or gorean slaves or bdsm tops/doms or gorean masters is subjected to this. To believe anything else (to me) is dellusional thinking.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 2:06:58 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

I have seen in many threads that the Dominant's are conforming to what is expected that a sub/slave's ideas of a what a good Dominant should be......In this sense are they actually modeling all Dominants to become something more accepted in the western romance novels........they we are to become something like knights in shining armor and if we dont conform to their standards then we are considered outcasts......I have seen many threads that if you are a "softy" you'll tend to get much further within the sub/slave population........I just wanted everyone else's take on this subject

Master Six


this is an interesting thread.i know for myself in just talking to Dom's here o/l, i'll stop talking soon enough if i see any signs of weakness in them.
i don't mean not being empathetic or crying when their mom dies or some such thing.for me its their lack of authority w/ me.i crave protocol and strict control.
i seek someone stronger willed than myself.
its the inconsistancy w/ rules in the newer Dom's.
or the hng's.. good gosh it only takes a few to figure them out,bye i'm history.
or the married men who's wives wont do what i do. how is a girl supposd to respect them and give up control?when they are not ruling their home and wives?
then of course we have to worry about is this man just a hound? can i truly trust him not to hurt me when i do give up control? past baggage is such a bitch!
i spent years picking up the pieces for myself and my kids to just hand it over to someone not trustworthy or honorable.
when i topped i remember on more than one occasion, when i just wanted to shake him and scream cant u see this isnt the real me-i'm only doing it to please you?
i have been in relationships where i was put on a pedastal(vanilla) and i would knock myself off there on purpose just to see what he would do.hoping he would dominate me and take control of the situation.
maybe i'm too picky now... i dont know, i just figure i went thro enough pain already in this life and i still have my whole life ahead of me and i prefer to only give myself in one last relationship with a Master who knows what he is doing and is capable of handling me,instead of more mismatched relationships.
as to them conforming,i dont know enough,i cant answer that except to say i surely hope not.then what is it all for?


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"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 2:29:52 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		There does seem to be a lot of "bottoming from the top" going on out there these days.

And ya,it's confusing.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 2:41:58 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Not from my observations. There will always be those that misuse and even misunderstand terms. Then you get the accusations of 'topping from below'... but if it doesnt effect you individually - what the hell does it matter? It just means that it takes harder work and more time to find that what you believe is for you. Alot of dominants and submissives would find a dominant who is instructing his slave to find a 'sister' or even perusing sites and profiles as 'topping from below'... but if it works for you, then so what if they think anything - just means you have left an impression! I think what is missing more in recent times is patience. In a society that is very much 'here and right now' - people expect more from less and have no patience when they cannot gain it quick enough. Hence velcro collars and inconsistant communication.

Peace and Love

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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 4:33:25 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Heh. Seems that everyone in the Gorean forum agreed that BDSM doms are really the bottoms in their relationships, and since that got really boring, they decided to move on and try the same topic in the BDSM forums.

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 4:33:43 PM   
FLButtSlut


Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Greetings..~smiles~

Humans are Humans, and All seek happiness. This will and does include anyone from the BDSM venue or Gorean or any other label you choose to adhere to. I have read just as many BDSM storys of relationship demise as I have Gorean. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

There is no..absolutely no guarantee that the relationship you now have..and feel it is the absolute right one and only way, will infact be there 5yrs from now no matter what your beliefs are, honor, or anything else. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

Everyone be they bdsm sub/slaves or gorean slaves or bdsm tops/doms or gorean masters is subjected to this. To believe anything else (to me) is dellusional thinking.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



It appears that the dominants who always question this don't seem to understand what you have so eloquently stated. We are all here seeking happiness and fufillment. In any power exchange, there are bound to be things that may not make a sub/slave happy or fufilled. The example of making housework a "hard limit" is terribly amusing to me, but probably because I wonder who is responsible for the housework of the sub/slave's house during their search?

There are things that are going to be hard limits listed in profiles. The reason should be so obvious. If a sub/slave has issues with the concept of poly - and every poly person I have ever talked or read about on this thread says they are "wired" that way - stating that multiple partners is a "hard limit" makes complete sense. Why should they seek a master who IS poly and wants them to be one of many? This certainly would leave them unfufilled and unhappy.

It would appear that the OP seems to be quite confused by the difference between listing limits during a search and the limits that are defined IN a relationship. In our quest for happiness, we need to find those we are compatible with. I have a child, so why would I want to be involved with someone who doesn't want to have kids around? Regardless of the position I identify with, and regardless of how wonderful a prospective master may be, I'm not choosing him over my child, therefore, it is a hard limit. If anyone claiming that would make me less of who I am is an ignorant fool.

I have noticed that a VERY HIGH number of the owned subs/slaves state quite clearly that they have "no limits" with their master. They have had the maturity and common sense to choose someone with whom they shared enough common ground that this could be the case.

The quest for happiness and fufillment seems, to some people, to be a goal that only a "master" has a right to seek. The silliness of that is obvious. It kind of goes along with most sub/slave views of those whose initial approach is "on your knees bitch". If a master is seeking things drastically different than the slave, why should they ever pursue a relationship? The theory lacks any type of reasonable common sense, and the fact that nearly no one is going to serve someone "just because" should considerably impact the ludicrous nature of such a statement.


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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 4:46:38 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I just wanted everyones take on the subject in the BDSM realm not just the Gorean........a little less noise ratio here


Master Six

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I wish you well

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RE: Are Doms Conforming - 10/23/2005 4:47:05 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut


quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Greetings..~smiles~

Humans are Humans, and All seek happiness. This will and does include anyone from the BDSM venue or Gorean or any other label you choose to adhere to. I have read just as many BDSM storys of relationship demise as I have Gorean. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

There is no..absolutely no guarantee that the relationship you now have..and feel it is the absolute right one and only way, will infact be there 5yrs from now no matter what your beliefs are, honor, or anything else. Why?..because we are all humans looking for happiness.

Everyone be they bdsm sub/slaves or gorean slaves or bdsm tops/doms or gorean masters is subjected to this. To believe anything else (to me) is dellusional thinking.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



It appears that the dominants who always question this don't seem to understand what you have so eloquently stated. We are all here seeking happiness and fufillment. In any power exchange, there are bound to be things that may not make a sub/slave happy or fufilled. The example of making housework a "hard limit" is terribly amusing to me, but probably because I wonder who is responsible for the housework of the sub/slave's house during their search?
I always wonder why Doms think that just because they gained a submissive, they've also gained a housemaid. I work just as many hours as Master does, so why should I get ALL the housework? Sorry, I'd rather spend my time WITH him rather than being June Cleaver. If that makes some think I am less than submissive...oh well.


quote:

The quest for happiness and fufillment seems, to some people, to be a goal that only a "master" has a right to seek. The silliness of that is obvious. It kind of goes along with most sub/slave views of those whose initial approach is "on your knees bitch". If a master is seeking things drastically different than the slave, why should they ever pursue a relationship? The theory lacks any type of reasonable common sense, and the fact that nearly no one is going to serve someone "just because" should considerably impact the ludicrous nature of such a statement.
Thank you!

I didn't become involved in this lifestyle to subjugate my own happiness, but to find someone that had similar views, so that we could be happy together. Our relationship may not be what everyone seeks, but it is what we seek. Yes, our relationship has evolved into no-limits and it's because our views are similar. I firmly believe that D/s is a symbiotic relationship.....you balance each other out.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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