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RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 7:14:17 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
That just about sums it all up I think. Great Post. Just add a good dose of commonsence and good manners and there should be no problems.


Thanks!

Yes, the world is always better for common sense and good manners.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 7:39:27 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Tal,

I can imagine that some of you think im a protocal junkie...thats really neither here nor there.....the point being is that to give someone respect even if they are a perv shows that you have something to give to anyone..."manners".......if I addressed you as slut when I met you I would probably get the iggy wouldnt I? Funny as this is to me that if I ask that you respect my station then im wrong for it or some power junky or interent Master...lmao......these things im not...I run a well established night club for swingers and leather folk here in New Orleans and everyone here respects my station....some address me with my given name and others call me Master......never the less everyone respects me and I in turn respect them.......just because im a Master dosent mean that I own you......ask yourself am i your Owner? This is something totally different..how man of you can share each other without jealousy?


Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 7:49:02 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		then can't someone address you by your given name and still show you respect? Why the default, well,you're a submissive so you have to address me as master?

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 7:51:24 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

Funny as this is to me that if I ask that you respect my station then im wrong for it or some power junky or interent Master



Station is something that becomes evident over time. I don't respect someone simply because they introduce themselves as a Dominant. There are many that label themselves that way, that I don't believe that they are a Dominant. If, after I've gotten to know you, you are what I consider to be a Dominant, I will accord you that courtesy.

Until that point, I will show you respect as another human being. However, if you behave like a jackass to me, I will treat you like a jackass regardless of your station. Which, of course, I have Master's open ended permission to do.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 8:01:10 PM   
LacieDoll


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		*Creeps in quietly* Esh...I read this whole thread lol amazing. I don't want to step on any toes as I don't know anyone here so I am just gonna give my two cents worth and then hasten myself to the door quickly lol.

I think - the Not My Dom syndrome (And I apologize up front if this isn't what you were referring to) is the result of Dom/Domme's taking upon themselves to correct or expect submissiveness from others who are not their own without taking heed in that the others may have been instructed in a certain manner by their own Master/Mistress.

I am always respectful to people even if it is someone I don't like. I was raised in the south and Sir and Ma'am are a natural part of my vocabulary and comes very easy for me. Some others may have their own style. However, even if I don't have a Master/Mistress, if one tried to correct me I would be polite and respectful and tell them I will take their advice and mull it over. Just because they don't like something someone is doing doesn't necessarily mean that its wrong. It might be acceptable just not liked by them. If they are expecting submissiveness from me (I am not Gorean and I understand the Gorean theory and so this does not apply to Goreans amongst themselves). Then yes I have a problem with that and can see where some would adopt that mentality of "you aren't my Dom". Submissiveness doesn't mean you are submissive to all people. Submissiveness is not just waiting on people or serving them drinks. Its much more than that and embodies alot of different things. To expect someone you don't know to be submissive to you is asking alot. (This has happened to me and again Goreans aside). Also, if one is Gorean, they should expect non Gorean submissives to serve them.

I don't know if I made sense. But I can see why some might have that attitude. This is just a view from the bottom.

Commence to playing
But play nicely
Or I take all the toys
for myself lol.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/30/2005 9:09:19 PM   
Zoycite


Posts: 24
Joined: 5/15/2004
From: Hopewell Jct, NY
Status: offline 		From my journal response... you'll see where I stand on this point. I don't disrespect people but I expect them to give me respect as well. I don't appreciate it when others message me to get on my knees and bow to thier 'greatness.' Then again, I am a switch... I just always ask people to respect me and I shall do the same. I address people properly with sir and miss... but only captilize them (ie: Sir/Miss) if they show me respect to begin with.
But I suppose being a switch, I have different views on this matter then a slave or a Dom would have.

_____________________________

"Love is a double edged emotion, both pleasure... and pain"

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/zoycite/Untitled6.jpg[/image]

(in reply to LacieDoll)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 4:37:03 AM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		This is the point I was trying to get across.....it would seem that some are thinking that by calling someone by their given station gives this person rights to have them serve them in anyway....this isnt true...if I met you in my club and I knew you were submissive would you think that im so ambigious that I could make you serve me?Probably not and I wouldnt expect it either....see we are going to a place here that just because your a submissive that you have to serve everyone that wears the title Dominant...this isnt true....again each serves in his/her own way to whomever.........this dosent imply that you have to serve everyone......this is about manners...........and respect........petwolf read my post again I think you missed something in it............maybe you guys will figure this out.....

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 5:08:08 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

This is the point I was trying to get across.....it would seem that some are thinking that by calling someone by their given station gives this person rights to have them serve them in anyway....this isnt true...if I met you in my club and I knew you were submissive would you think that im so ambigious that I could make you serve me?Probably not and I wouldnt expect it either....see we are going to a place here that just because your a submissive that you have to serve everyone that wears the title Dominant...this isnt true....again each serves in his/her own way to whomever.........this dosent imply that you have to serve everyone......this is about manners...........and respect........petwolf read my post again I think you missed something in it............maybe you guys will figure this out.....

Master Six

The fact that you are expecting something special of them BECAUSE THEY ARE SUBMISSIVE is imposing your own specific relationship standards to everyone else.

It's not cool for you to expect that from others, nor is it cool to consider them rude when they do not do so.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 5:25:25 AM   
BrianTucson


Posts: 6
Joined: 9/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

maybe you guys will figure this out.....

Master Six


Sir Six, I'm happy to address you by your name, I don't know you. I've read this string, and others that you've started, and you seem obsessed with having everyone call you 'Master'. It seems clear that everyone isn't going to do it. Is that so unreasonable?

People have told you that you aren't their Master, and, for that reason, they aren't going to address you by that title. Some won't call anyone Sir if they aren't in their service. You have made it clear that you are going to address every submissive by whatever diminutive comes to mind, without regard to their feelings, unless they take it upon themselves to remind you that your 'given station' has nothing whatever to do with them.

I don't personally care if you call yourself Master, Lord, King, or anything else. What you expect from others tells those of us who have been involved in the lifestyle for a long time more about you than you may realize. There are any number of reasons why the term 'true Master' is something to be avoided. But there are also clear examples of why youth, inexperience, and insensitivity combine to create a poor example of a dominant.

Good luck with your next attempt.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 6:52:41 AM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		EmerldSlave,

you and I have alot in common...in the fact that both of us do live Poly...I still dont see how any dynamic can be an excuse for being polite.....I could really care less if I am addressed as Master or Sir.........you seem to miss the ponit of the entire thread really.....look at the way you and I both live...is there jealousy? dont we have the ability to share each ourselves without being confined to the point where we are rude to others because they arent our Dominant or submissive? This is the point im trying to get across...there are alot out there that are rude to other Dominants and submissives because they have no relationship dynamic......is the relationship dynamic the only thing that gives anyone the right to be called Dominant or submissive....bella is just as submissive without me around and I am just as Dominant without her around me either.....We DO NOT DEFINE EACH OTHER....to be submissive or Dominant is a trait...this is called human behaviour.......maybe when you read this you can look past that there are others out there that dont deserve either station........but everyone whom states thier station should be addressed in a proper manner...this is called being polite...I know if im polite and cordial then I tend to get alot further with people............

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 7:26:49 AM   
BrianTucson


Posts: 6
Joined: 9/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I could really care less if I am addressed as Master or Sir


Well, there you go. I've been wrong before. I clearly owe you an apology.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 7:27:25 AM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		so submissives can't be polite and cordial to you without addressing you in a submissive way (Sir, Master, etc)? That seems to be what you keep repeating in this thread. i for one can be very polite to someone while using their name (if i happen to know it).

and frankly, you can claim yourself Master til you're blue in the face (just as i can claim myself a submissive til i'm blue in the face), but i'm not going to start off randomly calling stranger Dom/mes Master/Sir/Mistress/etc (i've tried, and frankly it does put me in that relationship dynamic with them-i am then automatically in that lower position with them). i will sometimes say ma'am or sir to someone on the street that i ask a question of or get a service from, but the numbers of people who translate that habit to their online chatting are not very high.

i happen to have a dominant or more neutral attitude around everybody else in my life, for necessities sake more than anything else otherwise i risk being taken advantage of and things not getting done. i submit to my dom. i don't just naturally fall to my knees (metaphorically speaking) anytime a self-titled Dom/me walks into the room.

That's just me.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 7:40:23 AM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		there's 11 pages of posts here...i've read several but im not taking the time out of my life to reread all of them. Feel free to point out a particular post to me if you like.

i think the world is full of rude people, submissive, dominant, and otherwise. The only example of this rudeness from submissives i've seen you give is that they aren't addressing you "properly"-how else have so many of them been rude/impolite to you?

If someone cuts you off in traffic, doesn't grab a door when you're trying to walk through carrying something, says you have a stupid profile pic, calls you names without any basis in truth, etc. Yeah, that's rude. And it's not right. But just because someone is a submissive doesn't make them not a rude person in general, and just because someone is a submissive doesn't automatically default you as Master.

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 8:07:02 AM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline 		There is a very wise and powerful saying that goes:
What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you are saying.

I think the whole basis of the “Your Not My Dom” syndrome starts with people trying to take control where they do not have any. And, as is often typical of our societies, we react by going too far in the opposite way.
A parent beats a child…. ALL parents must be abusive, so we make all spanking illegal. Someone drives too fast and kills another person, drop the speed limits all over.
A bunch of Doms start ordering submissives around when they have no right to… tell all Doms your not mine
I think that is how it came about.

However, there is also the whole issue of grabbing titles. You must call me Lord and Master of the Universe because I said so. Many cultures have a form of ritual before you can be accepted as a man. There is a transition phase, clearly defined between boy and man. And also for girl and woman. Until you undergo the ritual, you cannot have an adult name, sleeping place etc. Or you may even be eating at the little kids table on Thanksgiving. In the old days, you under went training before you were called a Master. Times have changed. Now anyone who has seen CSI or Kink can call themselves a Master. That doesn’t mean you are one, or have earned any respect. It means you have given yourself a title.

It is a lot like what is happening to the Wiccans and Pagans. It’s become a cool fad. There are tons of what I call Buffy Wiccans. It’s Goddess this and Goddess that. But do any of them know one thing about the Consort? Nope. They saw it on Buffy, thought Willow was cool and now are Wiccan. Sort of like a Master/Mistress that watched CSI and thought COOL, I like leather… now I am a Mistress, pay me to worship me.

Yes you should be polite. No you should not have to address a Buffy Wiccan as “Your Most Excellent High Priestess of Diana”. Nor a CSI Top at “The Almighty Sir and Lord of All Who Surf The Internet”. If someone is being polite to you, be polite back. Within your standards of your lifestyle, relationships, and geographical/political/economical situation. If they cannot make allowances for that, then you are pretty much right. They are a close minded person, and pretty much not worth your time. Place them on ignore and find someone who can understand that when in Rome you do as the Romans do, but when not in Rome, Romans have to do as others do.
Tony

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 10:38:48 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		My last attempt for this thread.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72
We DO NOT DEFINE EACH OTHER....to be submissive or Dominant is a trait...this is called human behaviour

No, it's not a trait. Not to me. And that's the core issue- TO YOU that's what it is. TO ME it's not at all.

It's certainly not human behavior either.
quote:


but everyone whom states thier station should be addressed in a proper manner

And who decides what the "proper manner" is?

quote:


...this is called being polite...I know if im polite and cordial then I tend to get alot further with people............
Master Six

And you feel there's no possible way to be very polite and respectful except the way you say it is?

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 10:54:27 AM   
JerryInTampa


Posts: 138
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

but what I dont see is the harm in calling someone Sir or Master......can you not be polite and get your point across without being rude by saying your not my Dom therefore I owe you no respect..
What I don't see is how you feel the two are only inclusive... that not calling someone Sir or Master is somehow disrespectful.

I've never asked someone who was not mine to call me "Master". Personally, I would conder it rude to do so. Generally, the only ones that call me "Sir", are contextual, subs who I'm either directly close with or am close with their signifigant others; though I still don't expect such a courtesy.

Because someone is a sub does not make them mine, and I want the same respect from them that I want from a dom, or someone in the nilla world. Courtesy is not about pomp and circumstance, and it sure as hell is not about conforming to somone else's norms of title. My responses to any are the same. If they are not mine (or at least in play with me at the moment), sub, dom, nilla... makes no difference. Personally, I think expecting otherwise is silly.

Jerry

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 10:56:45 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:


...this is called being polite...I know if im polite and cordial then I tend to get alot further with people............
Master Six

And you feel there's no possible way to be very polite and respectful except the way you say it is?


[sad smile] I'd say it was impolite for someone to tell me or Libby that we had to address him as "Master."


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 11:12:30 AM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		I do find it interesting that at times when im in a chatroom that people call me Six......lmfao...this is just a screen name.....some folks tend to take this a bit far that they wont even call me by my screen name.........now why is that? because it has Sir in it....really I find this funny.........does my screenname give ownership to these persons? probably not huh? but there are alot out there that have well fallen down and bumped their heads..........I really dont care how I maybe addressed by others when im in the real world...those whom are close to me address me properly by my station or by my name if they are only part timers...and the vanillia ones address me by my given name......so someone tell me how come that if some man or woman has Mistress so in so or Master so and so for thier screenname you cant type Mistress so in so or Master so in so.........I really dont see where people are coming from with this one....my screen name does has dual meanings but it has nothing to do with BDSM or Gorean.........so if there is anyone out there that can explain this then tell me....maybe EmereldSlave could fill me in on this one

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 11:23:07 AM   
Larry862


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/30/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I instruct my slaves they are to be polite and show respect to other slaves/subs and Dom's. They are NOT required to call anyone else Sir and defiantely not Master. Sir is sign of respect that is earned but the slave/sub. It is not an automatic and should not be. I do however instruct my slaves that when someone requests them to call them Sir or Master that they are not allowed with my permission. Same goes for any Dom that thinks a slave of mine is a toy for his/her use without my permission. There is a line that is not a static item that is the line between being respectful and disrespectful.. Any slave of mine caught being disrespectful would be punished. I have also been known to flame any other Dom that gets disrespectful with a slave of mine. Its not right from either...

(in reply to shaohua)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/31/2005 12:01:30 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

to give someone respect even if they are a perv shows that you have something to give to anyone..."manners"


Yes, manners are important.

Manners are a pleasant "Hello, how are you?" Perhaps a handshake, perhaps a nod. "Please" and "thank you". "Pardon me" instead of shoving through. That's manners, that's polite, that's proper - for any situation.

quote:

if I addressed you as slut when I met you I would probably get the iggy wouldnt I?


Well - yeah. Deservedly so. Then again - you'd get "the iggy" if you called me anything other than my name (or simply used no name at all, in a polite way) - that includes "dear", "little one", "subbie", "girl", or "slut" - because to use any of those presupposes familiarity. Presupposed familiarity is not mannerly, as Emily Post will tell you.

quote:

Funny as this is to me that if I ask that you respect my station then im wrong for it or some power junky or interent Master


As I've mentioned before, I think that this point right here is the main disconnect.

With you as master in your interpersonal relationship, and me as girl in mine, there *is no* "station" between us. We are not in relationship with one another. We are not part of the same social groups where there might be an established (read: mutually agreed upon) hierarchy. We are not within the same leather family.

We are, for all intents and purposes, social equals - until we agree otherwise. There is no station between us. No expectations of differential treatment, no hierarchy, no protocols.

I understand that it's different among your Gorean peers. That's all well and good - if a Gorean woman wants to believe that all men are above her, so be it. It's when she, or anyone else, starts insisting that because she believes it, it then holds true for *others* that it becomes a problem.

But I am not a Gorean woman - and in my personal philosophy (which, face it, is the only one that counts in my world, as yours is the one that counts in yours), no one is "above me" in social station unless we agree upon it, mutually.

So. When I greet you at an event, or online, or whatever, and I greet you as a social equal - I *am* addressing you according to station.

quote:

just because im a Master dosent mean that I own you......ask yourself am i your Owner? This is something totally different..how man of you can share each other without jealousy?


Refusal to accept titles/station/social hierarchy has nothing to do with jealousy. I'm not sure where you're getting that.


(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 220
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