Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: A Salute to Some


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: A Salute to Some Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:13:44 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Can't believe I'm siding with Ken, but the OP, intentionally or not, marginalized those for whom Memorial Day was meant.

Memorial Day isn't 'I'm going to thank a vet' day, it isn't 'I know someone who served' day, it isn't 'someone in my family was a vet' day, it isn't 'I was gonna join up but I didn't' day.   It isn't an 'I' or 'Meeee' day at all.

It is about quiet, simple, rememberance for those who left their lives behind while wearing those uniforms.





(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:31:00 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Then you shouldn't have voted for GWB.
The F-102 was pulled from Vietnam service before he joined the squadron. The squadron was well known to exist strictly to keep the sons of the wealthy and the connected from going to Vietnam without having to actually resist the draft.

Your father and everyone who served while that squadron was used to protect those men had a little less because our military budget had to include these men. Did those diverted dollars result in casualties? I don't see how the question can be answered but my gut says taking funds away from the real military to support a bunch of cowards did harm.


Members of the 147th DID go to Vietnam, and Lt Bush VOLUNTEERED to go but lacked the requisite 500 hours of flight time required to replace active duty Air Force F-102 pilots. I drive past the 147th at Ellington field EVERY DAY and I have stopped to read the memorial plaque on Aerospace Blvd commemorating the squadron members who have died in the line of duty.

For your information the 147th is NOT a country club for rich boys it is a military unit like any other, and it has a long and distinigushed history under various designations going back to training pilots for WORLD WAR 1! F-16's from the 147th have served several tours in Iraq and there are Predators there now saving American lives every dayt.

Furthermore, if you had a clue about military strategy you would know how CRITICAL it is that the Texas Gulf Coast be protected. The Bush bashers can make all the wisecracks you want about guarding the skies of Houston, but Houston is ONE HELL OF A TARGET. You think gas prices are high now??? Suppose some adversary had hit the refineries in Pasadena, LaPorte, and Texas City - care to guess what gas prices would be then and how many Americans will freeze to death without heating oil??? The "Guardians of the Gulf" have a serious job to do, and some of the most critical airspace in the US to protect. It does not exist solely to provide the sons of the rich a place to avoid service.

In addition, you dont have to die in Vietnam to be a patriot. Strapping on any military jet is dangerous and the F-102 was worse than most. This was before the days of fly by wire and computer assisted stability, During my Navy time I have flown the T-6, T-2, TA-4, T-34, T-45, A-4, A-6, and F/A-18.... Once I left the service I have flown the T-38, F-4, F-16, and several soviet block jet warbirds. You would NOT get my ass into an F-102 no how, no way, dropping my letter, heres my wings, may I have a mop please....  The memorial at Ellington is full of the names of pilots who died right here in the USA because once upon a time, back in Bushes time, the crash rate on jets was unreal...

The 147th is a real military unit, where real Airmen serve and sometimes die either while protecting the 4th largest city in america and the petrochemical hub of this nation, or a far off land that they are deployed to. Maybe the Bush hatred should be put aside so that you can stop pissing on the men who serve in the 147th. Otherwise, just come right on down to Texas, take a left off of old Galveston road onto Aerospace Blvd,  after passing the NASA Vomit Comet (NA900) display make another left onto the military side of the field and then just take a shit on the monument bearing the names of the 147th's dead.... After all, it wasnt a real squadron just a flying club for rich boys right???? 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:32:48 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

This thread should never have been used to spew proBush or antiBush propoganda.  THAT in itself was an insult to the sacrifice it was meant to honor.


I agree - did you notice post #11 ?

_____________________________



(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:50:59 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Looks to me like #10 is what got this particular ball rolling.  I'm lucky, I haven't lost anyone that I am close to because of service or war.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:55:08 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		The idea that anyone here has the moral competence to discourse on the "right", "twue" or "politically correct" time, place, or method to honor soldiers, living and deceased, has got to be the most odious, offensive, outrageous pile of offal ever to pollute the Internet.

All who choose to parse the OP's words are the ones who marginalize this country's fallen heroes, as well as those who lived to tell the tale.

Be ashamed.

(sirsholly, my respects to your late husband)


_____________________________



(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:55:38 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I believe that I already apologized for my disrespectful attitude, Kitten.  I should never have gotten involved in this. The thread was meant to honor and respect people who deserved it.  We turned it into a debate on politics, semantics and the root of the holiday. I am willing to admit that.

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 5/27/2008 12:58:57 PM >

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 12:59:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Then you shouldn't have voted for GWB.
The F-102 was pulled from Vietnam service before he joined the squadron. The squadron was well known to exist strictly to keep the sons of the wealthy and the connected from going to Vietnam without having to actually resist the draft.

Your father and everyone who served while that squadron was used to protect those men had a little less because our military budget had to include these men. Did those diverted dollars result in casualties? I don't see how the question can be answered but my gut says taking funds away from the real military to support a bunch of cowards did harm.


Members of the 147th DID go to Vietnam, and Lt Bush VOLUNTEERED to go but lacked the requisite 500 hours of flight time required to replace active duty Air Force F-102 pilots. I drive past the 147th at Ellington field EVERY DAY and I have stopped to read the memorial plaque on Aerospace Blvd commemorating the squadron members who have died in the line of duty.

For your information the 147th is NOT a country club for rich boys it is a military unit like any other, and it has a long and distinigushed history under various designations going back to training pilots for WORLD WAR 1! F-16's from the 147th have served several tours in Iraq and there are Predators there now saving American lives every dayt. 

He served in the 111th Fighter Squadron, Texas ANG.  Which is part of the 147th Fighter Wing. The 111th was never deployed to Vietnam. I've seen all of GWB's publicly released records and no request to transfer to a squadron being deployed to Vietnam is in it. There is a transfer request, denied I might add, for going to a status G(no required training) post in the AL ANG.

I don't know what went on in the whole wing but I've seen far more than enough material with good sources to confirm that the 111th was a safe unit for rich or politically connected young men. It was made into a F-102 training squadron in 1969 even though the F-102 was being retired, the 111th itself got F-101's in 1971.

That the 147th was saddled with such a squadron is a shame. I feel bad for all the vets who served in that squadron before and after its abuse as well they will forever have to explain that it wasn't on their watch that a pilot could get away with refusing to get a required flight physical and not get a court.

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 1:12:12 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		Ill be damned if Ill apologize. This was a very nice thread expressing a very sincere and heartfelt sentiment until Post #10 when it had to be turned into the usual "Bush Bad Obama Good" crap. Like it or not "Bush and His Minons" (as the author of post 10 called them) served this country. OK, so it was the Texas Air National Guard.... at least it wasnt an Al Queda camp in Indonesia!

Futhermore, in MY country the President of the United States is, until 12 Noon Jan 20th, 2009, George W. Bush. There is no "Pres. Obama" and I pray to God that Hillary's right and that there never will be... However, in the unlikely event that ol Barrack Hussein sucessfully dodges hundreds of aspiring James Earl Ray's who will come out of the woodwork once hes the nominee, and actually lives to see the election, he hasnt won it and probably wont and he was NOT the President on Memorial Day, 2008.

If you cant respect the man, at least respect the office...  This thread was about honoring vets, not "waterboarding, black sites, the current administration, mc cains views on the GI bill, and how Barrack Hussein Obama is the greatest thing since sliced pumpernickle bread...." We already have threads on all of those topics. This wasn't the place for a politcal statement. 

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 1:22:48 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		CelticLord: I'm sorry about what happened to this thread. This has been a trainwreck and not worthy of the original sentiments expressed.
SirsHolly, thanks to you, and to your late husband; you have my sympathy, and my respect.
I would hope that others would show the same respect, and not use this thread to post your political views, or to show that only *you* are smart enough to know what a holiday is for.
I guess it's whatever you make of it, no?


_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 1:25:31 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
This wasn't the place for a politcal statement. 

THAT is why I apologized for my part in it.  I am not apologizing for what I said but where I said it.

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 1:28:15 PM   
soul2share


Posts: 7084
Joined: 12/18/2007
From: somewhere out there.....
Status: offline 		Quite frankly, I read this with a jaded eye....I posted a very nice thought that I received in an e-mail from a woman at my workplace, and pretty much got slammed for doing so.  Mainly about the difference between Memorial day and Veteran's Day....I guess I wasn't smart enough to know the difference myself.

I have lost friends to combat, I know families that lost sons and daughters.....it is those soldiers and their families that I thank today.  I have worn the uniform myself.  The original thought of this post was honorable, shame on those of you who just couldn't let your polictical opinions lie there.

And for those that this applies to.....bite me!

_____________________________

I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"...people are starting to take it as a challenge!

*Not a fuck was given.*

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 1:42:21 PM   
somethndif


Posts: 136
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

As a veteran I would like to thank you for turning a polite and touching tribute to the men and women who have served into a political slam on "Bush and his minions" and an endorsement of "Pres Obama".... (As his fellow democratic candidate aptly pointed out, he hasn't lived to November, much less been elected so that title is a bit premature.)

For the record - lets add some special thanks to two distinguished Naval Aviators -

LT. George H. W. Bush, USN - winner of the Distinguished Flying Cross, three air medals and a Presidential Unit Citation.

and

CAPT. John Sidney McCain III, USN Ret. - whose 17 decorations include the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, Purple Heart, and Navy Commendation Medal. 

Let us also not forget to thank another man who served his country honorably in the cockpit of an F-102 as one of the elite 147th - "The Guardians of the Gulf"...  

1st Lt. George W. Bush, Texas Air National Guard.

Gentlemen, as veterans and fellow pilots, I raise a glass of Jerimiah Weed in your honor - FOX TWO!



Ok, now that Memorial Day is over let's get to some serious slamming.  Regardless of whether I agree with their politics, the elder Bush and McCain were heroes and deserve a salute, but to include the Coward-in-Chief does a disservice to those who have died in our wars. 

This "man" used his family's political connections to get an Air Guard slot in the middle of a war that's difficult to get even in peacetime.  In the process he stepped over more highly qualified people in order to avoid the draft. 

By all accounts he was a vocal proponent of our presence in Vietnam yet that didn't translate to him seeking out combat duty.  Now he has the audacity to send another generation to their deaths in a questionable war when he didn't have the courage to put himself on the line when it was his opportunity. 


Agreed.  I went through basic training in 1971, Vietnam era, with guys in the Guard.  They had all used connections to get there, and they used to laugh at us regular Army guys. 

Shrub deserves no accolades for his "service" in the Guard during Vietnam.  He was just keeping his anticipated political career on track, without sacrificing anything.

Dan

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 2:34:42 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The idea that anyone here has the moral competence to discourse on the "right", "twue" or "politically correct" time, place, or method to honor soldiers, living and deceased, has got to be the most odious, offensive, outrageous pile of offal ever to pollute the Internet.

All who choose to parse the OP's words are the ones who marginalize this country's fallen heroes, as well as those who lived to tell the tale.

Be ashamed.

(sirsholly, my respects to your late husband)

You of all people, have no standing to lecture me on any aspect of integrity, particularly how I choose to commemorate Memorial Day, and it will be a cold day in hell when I am ashamed to point out the original intent of the observance.

Feel free to keep up your tap dancing on the graves of the fallen to score your keyboard contrarian 'points'... no matter how many you get to applaud, it is still reprehensible.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/27/2008 2:36:19 PM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 3:11:48 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I don't find it impolite to talk about what it really means to support our troops. IMHO, our veterans need health benefits a bit more than parades. There's actually money enough for both.


They need to come the fuck home, now, and stop being used by the Bush Gang for their own purposes.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Racquelle)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 3:13:00 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


Agreed. I went through basic training in 1971, Vietnam era, with guys in the Guard. They had all used connections to get there, and they used to laugh at us regular Army guys.

Shrub deserves no accolades for his "service" in the Guard during Vietnam. He was just keeping his anticipated political career on track, without sacrificing anything.

Dan


They may have cooked the paperwork to make it look like "Service", but honorable it ain't.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to somethndif)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 3:45:52 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

So the original point of this thread was to pay respect ..... I think holly's probably a bit closer than we've been.  Its a day to remember who and what we've lost.  For some it was just their innocence.  For others it was their lives.  For others it was their minds.  Who are we to put down ANY sacrifice no matter how small?  It takes a tiny insecure little person to have to do that.

No, for me it's a day to remember Paul Mandraccia, a kid I went to HS with, and who was learning to play a mean guitar, even with his teeth, and had a tight little band with the best drummer in school, better than me (and that's saying something; our HS won the NY State Fair Marching Band 3 out of 5 times running back then). He came back in a body bag.

They played a kick-ass version of Vanilla Fudge's "You Keep Me Hangin' On".

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 4:02:21 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		i am going to snap a salute back at anyone who offered one, and will say "you are quite welcome" to anyone who enjoys the freedom to mouth off.  it was my extreme pleasure to serve and maintain your freedom to say what you think.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 5:16:05 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		atursvsMaam,

Thanks! And back at you!

And to everyone else, who got so uptight about my voicing my Constitutionally protected opinion of our disreputable leaders... sorry that you think dissent is somehow unpatriotic. To reiterate: I love the troops. But I don't love the liars who put them in harms way without sufficient, or even definable, reason. 


"A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are comonly treated as enemies by it."  -Henry David Thoreau Civil Disobediance

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:19:43 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The guard, believe it or not,has NEVER been the way to avoid going to war. Guard soldiers did serve and die in Vietnam. Units of the Maryland National Guard went in with the earliest troops sent "officially" into Vietnam. Was it safer than going active duty? Sure. Was it somehow less honorable than running to Canada or running around doing drugs and waving signs while others went to die in your place? Exactly the opposite. I will vote for any former military member twice before I vote for one of the cowardly bastards who spat on men like my father when they returned home.


IrishKnight,

good point and BTW in decades gone past I personally showed the pavement to a few of those folks that did the spitting.

CP

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:25:38 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

et me tell you something Ken. Before i remarried i was the widow of a veteran who died of his combat related injuries. This is HIS thread. CleticPrince did not write it for him, did not know anything about him, or me...but this is HIS. It is also the thread of every Veteran who gave his/her life for their country. It was written as a thank you to them.

And you are correct that they are not reading this...but guess what? Their widows are...their sons...their daughters, their parents....
If you have so little respect for the heros who lost there lives, at least have respect for the unsung heros who still bear the scars of losing their loved ones.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 5/27/2008 10:28:09 AM >


holly, claps! well said girl.

CP

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: A Salute to Some Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094