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RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:29:49 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we?

http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=215

http://www.slate.com/id/1005224/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts



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"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:35:54 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Can't believe I'm siding with Ken, but the OP, intentionally or not, marginalized those for whom Memorial Day was meant.

Memorial Day isn't 'I'm going to thank a vet' day, it isn't 'I know someone who served' day, it isn't 'someone in my family was a vet' day, it isn't 'I was gonna join up but I didn't' day. It isn't an 'I' or 'Meeee' day at all.

It is about quiet, simple, rememberance for those who left their lives behind while wearing those uniforms.


Alumbra,

there was no slight at all. it was a salutation to service, I did not feel it necessary to dig into the past for decoration Day, Armistice Day and speciafically dead vet day.

Technically there is an "Armed forces Day' that is set aside for living past and present service men and women. But who really pay any attention to that and ponders what they have given up. The salute was to all and I simply thought that any reader would understand it for what it was. I only wish that all the energy that has gone into this thread by some could be transfered into some silent thought for all.

CelticPrince

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:38:52 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Which is what I asked for in post #6.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/27/2008 6:44:00 PM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

CelticLord: I'm sorry about what happened to this thread. This has been a trainwreck and not worthy of the original sentiments expressed.
SirsHolly, thanks to you, and to your late husband; you have my sympathy, and my respect.
I would hope that others would show the same respect, and not use this thread to post your political views, or to show that only *you* are smart enough to know what a holiday is for.
I guess it's whatever you make of it, no?


christina,

thank you!

CP

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 5:15:34 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

atursvsMaam,

Thanks! And back at you!

And to everyone else, who got so uptight about my voicing my Constitutionally protected opinion of our disreputable leaders... sorry that you think dissent is somehow unpatriotic. To reiterate: I love the troops. But I don't love the liars who put them in harms way without sufficient, or even definable, reason. 


"A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are comonly treated as enemies by it."  -Henry David Thoreau Civil Disobediance



I dont think anyone suggested dissent was unpatriotic.  In fact I think you should go make a whole thread on your feelings about Bush. (like we don't know what they are)

Then you can rant and rave all you want without derailing someone elses thread.

It's not really hard to discuss a subject without dragging GWB into things....well it's not hard for most people, seems impossible for you....so tell me, do you dream about him at night?

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 5:33:41 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we?



I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article.  You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies.  Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting.  I think that the draft dodgers counted on that.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 5:59:20 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I think any veteran deserves appreciation EVERY day of the year, and I will continue to do so.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 8:19:47 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we?



I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article.  You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies.  Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting.  I think that the draft dodgers counted on that.


Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles.


.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 8:22:38 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles.

*snort*
Ah, the irony......


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 9:03:46 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we?



I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article.  You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies.  Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting.  I think that the draft dodgers counted on that.


Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles.


.

AFAIK, and bear in mind I read this I have no idea where, the other day, and thus cannot provide a citation, there has been only one documented case of "spitting". Now if anyone can find more DOCUMENTED CASES, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error, but until then, the burden of proof lies on those who claim it did happen.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 9:08:31 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		 Nope, the burden of  proof is always on those making the extreme assertions... in this case, the extreme assertion that they can prove a negative. (Which the articles started off by admitting they could not... their failure doesn't shift the burden to someone else)

One documented case and a no doubt inflated number of anecdotal cases, still trumps 'It never happened, but we can't prove it'.

Logic 101, whether you like the results or not.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 9:16:50 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Nope, the burden of  proof is always on those making the extreme assertions... in this case, the extreme assertion that they can prove a negative. (Which the articles started off by admitting they could not... their failure doesn't shift the burden to someone else)

One documented case and a no doubt inflated number of anecdotal cases, still trumps 'It never happened, but we can't prove it'.

Logic 101, whether you like the results or not.
Anecdotes are not evidence. If it happened to the extent the myth claims, surely there would be a photograph, a story by a reporter, something to give some legs to the myth. Where is it? Surely out of all those guys who came through Oakland, someone caught a snapshot. Where is it?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 9:35:20 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		"
In 1998 sociologist and Vietnam veteran Jerry Lembcke published "The Spitting Image: Myth, Media and the Legacy of Viet Nam." He recounts a study of 495 news stories on returning veterans published from 1965 to 1971. That study shows only a handful (32) of instances were presented as in any way antagonistic to the soldiers. There were no instances of spitting on soldiers; what spitting was reported was done by citizens expressing displeasure with protesters.

Opinion polls of the time show no animosity between soldiers and opponents of the war. Only 3 percent of returning soldiers recounted any unfriendly experiences upon their return." from the FreeRepublic article previously cited.

THREE PERCENT! Wow! That's a tsunami of anti-vet hatred!

The spitting was done to show disgust at the protesters, seems like.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 2:42:44 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		ill call your link and raise ya one...

http://www.broowaha.com/article.php?id=2029

and we could probably do this all day....but the only thing that matters to me is i know my cousin was spit on right outside the san francisco airport when coming home.....so i dont care what any amount of links may say about it being true or false-its fact in my world.

holly, my sincere thanks for the sacrifice your husband  made.  and as important the one you made, and continue to make every time you cry thinking what might have been.  i can not even imagine what you have gone through.

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 2:50:46 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

ill call your link and raise ya one...

http://www.broowaha.com/article.php?id=2029

and we could probably do this all day....but the only thing that matters to me is i know my cousin was spit on right outside the san francisco airport when coming home.....so i dont care what any amount of links may say about it being true or false-its fact in my world.

holly, my sincere thanks for the sacrifice your husband  made.  and as important the one you made, and continue to make every time you cry thinking what might have been.  i can not even imagine what you have gone through.
So linking to an opinion piece in some online fishwrapper by some clown named sanity check is some sort of proof?

BWAA HA HA HA HA HA.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 3:08:58 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		its as much proof as yours is.....

neener neener

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A Salute to Some - 5/28/2008 3:56:21 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Obviously, just saying "Thanks, troops! (dead or living) provokes a lot of emotions in people... so that pretty much wrapps it up for this "Americans are asleep at the wheel" bullshit. :)

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 77
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