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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:24:29 PM   
Politesub53


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Legally known as Chattel ?  I am perplexed as to how you can own someone without consent of said person and its legal ?  It`s ironic Lincoln had no authority to declare emancipation of the slaves in the north. He could do it in the south as the southern states didnt recognise the authority of the State, surely that makes it legal.

As for RFK he served in the navy on the ship named after his brother, even if it wasnt for long. Besides which, isnt the President Commander in Chief anymore ?


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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:31:10 PM   
eroticangel


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it is very very rare that i post, and the ignorance of you gentlemen, and i use the term very very lightly, is absurd. God rest their souls. The Kennedeys have paid over and over again. Instead of bitching about the past get your asses off the forum and create a change. The past is just that the past. Make a change for the future.

< Message edited by eroticangel -- 6/1/2008 2:32:25 PM >

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:34:23 PM   
DomAviator


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

So emancipation was legally wrong because slaves were " legaly owned property" and Abraham Lincoln was a "tyrant" who "single- handedly destroyed our Republic", eh ?

Nah, no fascists here... I don't see any, do you ? Look in the fucking mirror, dudes.


Yes CJan, thats about the size of it. Note that I said LEGALLY wrong, not morally wrong. Lincoln overstepped his bounds and deprived people of property without due process or compensation. Emancipation should have been handled, as I said with a buy-back rather than a unilateral proclamation. Morally right, legally wrong. My family owned slaves and I have in my collection of neat stuff some documents I had framed and hung on the wall. One of the slaves they bought was $750 which was a lot of money back then!!! No wonder the republic was torn apart and there was resentment for decades... If Lincoln had compensated the slave owners the Klan probably would have never risen...

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:37:31 PM   
winterlight


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sorry thought u were talking about JFK. I do agree on one thing. I HATE/LOATHE hearing that the Kennedys are Americas royal family.

That and Camelot were crammed down the throats of the American public by the Press and they swallowed it.

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:54:44 PM   
windchymes


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Actually, according to my textbook from the class I took about the American Civil War (can't remember the name of the book and it's packed away in storage with most of my other books), Lincoln was against the IDEA of slavery, but he used their emancipation as a political tool.  His advisors wanted him to wait to do it for the time it would make the most political impact not to actually do a good humanitarian deed.

The problem was, once they were freed, they didn't know what to do with them.  They didn't want Negroes living amongst the Whites in the North, and in the South, the plantation owners didn't want to pay actual wages to workers.  They tried to colonize them by shipping thousands of former slaves off to islands in the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean, but then in usual governmental screwups, they "forgot" to take them food, supplies and medicine and a large percentage of those in the colonies died. 

It was like "you're free to go, but you can't live here!"

< Message edited by windchymes -- 6/1/2008 2:56:07 PM >


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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 2:58:58 PM   
Dominatist


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Didn't like it.


< Message edited by Dominatist -- 6/1/2008 2:59:48 PM >

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 3:05:59 PM   
kdsub


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Some of you folks are awful hard on a family that gave so much... The old man was the real bastard...The kids have and had faults but still tried to serve. More than I have done...they sure didn't need to.

Butch

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 3:43:10 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

When is somebody gonna slam Ole Abe ? I mean, he didn't serve in the military. He was responsible for the death and maiming of thousands of his own countrymen. He freed the lazyass darkies and ruined the economy of the South for decades, and he died while enjoying a play put on by a buch of faggy thespians.

Don't even get me started on Martin.

C'mon, let all that right wing fascist hatred out. You'll feel better.

Why don't y'all go piss on somebody else's grave ?


I have slammed Abraham Lincoln.  He was a tyrant, and he single-handedly destroyed our status as a Republic.  If you think the American Civil War was about freeing slaves, than you have a simple-minded view of history. 

I am far from being a fascist, and that is a typical insult from someone on the Left.  The Kennedys have never done anything I find admirable.  Unlike the sheep in this country, I don't worship them or find them fascinating.  When I hear some moron describe the Kennedys as our royal family, I want to fucking choke them. 


One cannot imagine the unmitigated vitriol and ignorance of the blogoboards and here is a very good example.

First of all, Lincoln did serve in combat versus the indians. Not exactly sure when, under or whom or against whom he fought...but he did and then went home.

Lincoln SAVED the republic from those who would attack it and reduce our country down to either have the north and national government surrender or sue for peace under a nation with slavery spreading out as one if its paramount social values.

Lincoln did NOT ruin the economy of the south. The economy of the south suffered when the planter's son could no longer STEAL the labor of 3 to 4 million people as they and their ancestors had for about 200 years. Do you or any miscreants here understand or have any concept at all of how much money and overall wealth that is ?
 
As for the Kennedy boys...they contributed a whole lot more than most all the sloth we see in celebration and politics today.
 
Geo. Bush couldn't handle little or no National Guard duty between Texas and Alabama. (?)
 
Mitt Romney and his ALL of his 5 sons never even hinted as joining the military...the father saying they ALL could BETTER serve the country now...here. Yea, where it is safe and things don't go bump in the night.
 
The two oldest Kennedy sons Joseph and John (Jack) VOLUNTEERED for WWII. Joseph died a hero trying out a bomber that was a bomb in itself. He and the crew were to parachute out BEFORE the plane was to fly on to its target unpiloted. (reduce crew casualities) The plane blew up before planned. He was awarded a medal posthumously.
 
John was a Navy Lt.. in command of a PT boat rammed, broken and sunk by a Jap destroyer then saved his men on a nearby island. Had constant back and nerve pain for the remainder of his life for which he took many meds. He too was awarded a medal, the Navy Cross I believe and the rest is history.
 
As for Robert In October 1943, six weeks before his 18th birthday, he enlisted in the U.S. Naval Reserve as an apprentice seaman, released from active duty until March 1944 when he left Milton Academy early to report to the V-12 Navy College Training Program at Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts. His V-12 training was at Harvard (March–November 1944), Bates College in Lewiston, Maine (November 1944–June 1945), and Harvard (June 1945–January 1946). On December 15, 1945 the U.S. Navy commissioned the destroyer USS Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. and shortly thereafter granted Kennedy's request to be released from naval officer training to serve starting on February 1, 1946 as an apprentice seaman on the ship's shakedown cruise in the Caribbean. On May 30, 1946 received his honorable discharge from the Navy.

Ted Kennedy has submitted over 2500 bills to congress with over 600 passing into national law. That is a record that may never be broken...NEVER.

The Kennedys have always been champions of the poor devout Catholics, love this country and proved it and yes, there may never be another family like that one...in a long time.

Fuck Camelot and all the gauze anybody wants to wrap around their celebrety...I look at what they have done by far most of their lives while feeling they have all paid a bigger price than us for their mistakes and yes some were unsavory and even tragic.





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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 3:52:42 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eroticangel 
God rest their souls. The Kennedeys have paid over and over again. Instead of bitching about the past get your asses off the forum and create a change. The past is just that the past. Make a change for the future.



quote:

butch wrote:

Some of you folks are awful hard on a family that gave so much... The old man was the real bastard...The kids have and had faults but still tried to serve. More than I have done...they sure didn't need to.

Butch


Good posts, both of you.

quote:

windchymes wrote:

It was like "you're free to go, but you can't live here!"


 It's true! One of the more over-looked parts of that era.....

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:05:06 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

First of all, Lincoln did serve in combat versus the indians. Not exactly sure when, under or whom or against whom he fought...but he did and then went home.


Actually no he didn't.  He served as a Captain in the Illinois Militia during the Black Hawk War, but he never saw combat. 

quote:

Lincoln SAVED the republic from those who would attack it and reduce our country down to either have the north and national government surrender or sue for peace under a nation with slavery spreading out as one if its paramount social values.

Lincoln did NOT ruin the economy of the south. The economy of the south suffered when the planter's son could no longer STEAL the labor of 3 to 4 million people as they and their ancestors had for about 200 years. Do you or any miscreants here understand or have any concept at all of how much money and overall wealth that is ?


How did he save it?  He suspended Habeus Corpus during the war.  He refused to allow the southern states to succeed as is the right of a state under the Constitution.  He did ruin the economy of the South.  He allowed Union troops to conduct a scorched earth campaign and wage war against civilians.  He allowed Northern indistrialists and buisnessmen to exploit Southernors.  If you think the South are the only ones that benefited from slave labor, than you haven't read much about the time period.  Where do you think all that cotton went?  It went to textile mills in the north or overseas to Europe. 

quote:

As for the Kennedy boys...they contributed a whole lot more than most all the sloth we see in celebration and politics today.


It's easy to sacrifice when you've never had to work a day in your life. 

quote:

The two oldest Kennedy sons Joseph and John (Jack) VOLUNTEERED for WWII. Joseph died a hero trying out a bomber that was a bomb in itself. He and the crew were to parachute out BEFORE the plane was to fly on to its target unpiloted. (reduce crew casualities) The plane blew up before planned. He was awarded a medal posthumously.


15 million Americans served during the Second World War.  A lot of people volunteered, including George Bush I, Ronald Reagan, and Bob Dole.  The Kennedys aren't special.

quote:

Ted Kennedy has submitted over 2500 bills to congress with over 600 passing into national law. That is a record that may never be broken...NEVER.   


Yeah, it's easy to do that when you've never had a real job.  He also allowed a woman to drown to death, and helped cover up a rape by his nephew. 

quote:

The Kennedys have always been champions of the poor devout Catholics, love this country and proved it and yes, there may never be another family like that one...in a long time. 


Champions of the poor, huh?  None of them ever had to work, EVER.  The Kennedys don't help the poor, they make them government dependents.  As for them being devout Catholics...Why the hell would I care if that were true?  If they are such devout Catholics, they wouldn't support legalized abortion. 

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:12:17 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.interment.html

So he can request burial there. Just another example of you shooting your mouth off without checking the facts.

BTW by those same guidelines RFK would be allowed to be buried there today.


I have checked the facts.  Fitting those criteria doesn't automatically give someone a space there.  The space is limited, and it's hard to get buried there.  It's been a problem for many years, and it's been in the news a lot.  As for RFK, I don't give a shit what it says.  I don't think he should be buried there.  I don't think JFK's son had a right to be buried at sea.  We don't owe the Kennedys anything. 

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:20:15 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/guide.interment.html

So he can request burial there. Just another example of you shooting your mouth off without checking the facts.

BTW by those same guidelines RFK would be allowed to be buried there today.


I have checked the facts.  Fitting those criteria doesn't automatically give someone a space there.  The space is limited, and it's hard to get buried there.  It's been a problem for many years, and it's been in the news a lot.  As for RFK, I don't give a shit what it says.  I don't think he should be buried there.  I don't think JFK's son had a right to be buried at sea.  We don't owe the Kennedys anything. 


RFK met the criteria. And don't forget Arlington was not as crowded then as it is now.


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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:33:53 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Lincoln SAVED the republic from those who would attack it and reduce our country down to either have the north and national government surrender or sue for peace under a nation with slavery spreading out as one if its paramount social values.

And if Lincoln had not been elected, the south would not have seceded.


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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:36:15 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Legally known as Chattel ?  I am perplexed as to how you can own someone without consent of said person and its legal ? 



Obviously to some individuals, property is more important and valuable than humanity. It's fucking abysmal, they're not even apologetic in the least  .

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:39:21 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Legally known as Chattel ?  I am perplexed as to how you can own someone without consent of said person and its legal ? 



Obviously to some individuals, property is more important and valuable than humanity. It's fucking abysmal, they're not even apologetic in the least  .

Given the nature of the CollarMe website, this is an extraordinary piece of irony, no?


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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:47:06 PM   
kittinSol


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No, it isn't, not in the context of this thread. Perhaps you have missed the posts that politesub and myself alluded to? Go back, it's illuminating.

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:47:12 PM   
DomAviator


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OK how about JFK Jr AND his fucking wife too, both of whom were civilians who never served in the Navy, being buried at sea from a US Navy vessel, with the whole fucking family aboard....

My father, who was a career Master Chief was buried at sea from a Navy ship and NOBODY in my family could attend, including myself, a commissioned Navy officer.... Care to explain what makes JFK junior AND his wife so fucking special???

Whats more - JFK Sr. was not the war hero he was made out to be.  He was REJECTED by the army, and initially REJECTED by the Navy, and because of his influence with FDR his father got him into Naval Intelligence over the objections of the SECNAV. Then, while serving as an intelligence officer, JFK was involved in a rather embarassing affair with a Nazi spy which resulted in him being reassigned (I would have been court martialed) and given command of an itty bitty pathetic little PT boat - PT-109 which he LOST IN A COLLISSION. (Can we say POOR WATCHSTANDING???) Once again anyone else would have been court martialed, or at the very least relieved of command and run out of the Navy. You know the origin of that saying "the captain goes down with his ship"??? Thats because a SMART captain who loses a ship would rather die than face the board of inquiry when he gets back....  JFK was the Navy's embarassing moment, not its hero...


< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/1/2008 4:48:10 PM >

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:50:45 PM   
kittinSol


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Because of course, you were a fly on the wall during those crucial Navy moments  .

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:51:38 PM   
Alumbrado


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Bet the skipper of the Indianapolis would have traded places with JFK.

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RE: In Memory of Bobby - 6/1/2008 4:52:00 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Legally known as Chattel ?  I am perplexed as to how you can own someone without consent of said person and its legal ? 



Obviously to some individuals, property is more important and valuable than humanity. It's fucking abysmal, they're not even apologetic in the least  .

Given the nature of the CollarMe website, this is an extraordinary piece of irony, no?



We`re not talking about consensual bdsm here. We`er talking about slavery. So i dont see whats uironic in the slightest.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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