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RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 5:02:53 AM

UnspeakableAxe

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Joined: 11/12/2007
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I find that many dominant women are turned off by someone eager. It depends on the type of Domme you're talking to.

In my experience, the more options the dominant has, the more she wants someone she can "break". It's silly, I know but that's the way it goes.

There's a big difference between eager and desperate and it's easy for anyone on the other end to confuse the two.

Dominant women are similar to vanilla women in that way. Vanilla women seem to be attracted to me simply because I'm not interested in them.

People want what they think they can't have. It's human nature.

(in reply to burningdesires47)

Post #: 61

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 7:39:17 AM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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I'm with ... I think it was Jenny and Lady Pact ... who said that the best part is seeing the internal struggle in the sub. That battle between "i don't really like the sound of this" and "but i want to please Her!" That is awesome to watch ... as long as they choose the doing it for Me of course

.

I really don't go with the "if they enjoy it ... it's not dominance" line. I get more pleasure out of doing it if I see they are enjoying it ... or at very least reacting to what I am doing. So it enhances My Dominance and My pleasure to see theirs. However, IF the relationship was ALL and ONLY about doing things to the sub that they enjoy ... then yes, you've missed the boat. Submission ultimately has to have some "cost" involved ... not financial, but on some physical or emotional level at some times. The way I see things working, the cost is in doing things for Me when they are really not in the mood to do them but WILL do them (and without a pouty face) BECAUSE it's for Me. No one I know loves washing dishes so much that they ALWAYS want to do them, that they can't wait to get to the sink! And a sub is no difference, there will be times when they are tired and they just sat down and the last thing they want to do is get up and do the dishes. They show their submission in doing so. And I love them for it. And I reward them because I want to with at least some of the play activities they like when next W/we play ... though I am at liberty to throw in other activities too and organise them as I will.

In everyday life, I want a sub who is ready, willing and able to please. I don't want to debate every order, I don't want some show of reluctance. I don't want to have to "force" someone ... whether in actuality or in some concocted fashion ... to do something for Me. But neither do I want to be dictated to. I don't want a sub who says "i will do all the housework you want ... as long as you'll let me do it in my french maid outfit!" NO! Sorry, I make the decisions as to what you will or won't wear while working. Probably 90% of the time it will shorts and a tee shirt like anyone else in Queensland ... maybe 5% of the time you will be naked ... and maybe 5% of the time I will tell you to put that maid's outfit on!

So back to the OP ... there is a difference in presentation between "willing to please" and "over-eager to get my needs met". you seem to understand that difference ... now you may need a careful reexamination of the way you present to ensure you are demonstrating that you understand that difference. Good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to UnspeakableAxe)

Post #: 62

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:04:09 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UnspeakableAxe
Vanilla women seem to be attracted to me simply because I'm not interested in them.

People want what they think they can't have. It's human nature.

People with lousy self-esteem often seek out partners who confirm their low self-esteem by showing little interest or attraction to them. The more you behave as if such a person is worthless and unattractive, the more irresistable you become. This is a sign of a person who is chasing their own unhappiness, but it's not necessarily "human nature" in general. There are plenty of humans who have the self esteem to shrug and blow you off if you don't respond to their overtures. They're easy to spot--they tend to lead happy lives with lots of good friends and loving relationships.

*shrug* I sometimes wonder if there is an element of insecurity in one's power that motivates the desire for a reluctant sub. If a dominant can overcome reluctance and overpower resistance, it might be reassuring in some way. It feels more like taking something by force and less like being given something as a gift--and if you can take something by force, you must be strong and dommely and in charge, right?

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to UnspeakableAxe)

Post #: 63

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:06:54 AM

MISTRESSKUMA

Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
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well bravo!

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 64

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:10:09 AM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

People with lousy self-esteem often seek out partners who confirm their low self-esteem by showing little interest or attraction to them. The more you behave as if such a person is worthless and unattractive, the more irresistable you become.

Ok, mystery solved about some of the submissives (sadly, mostly male) that i've seen here. i would would love to give some names, but i'd get reamed and i'm sure everybody could think of a few.

Now, i've spent all night doing a last-minute assignment for Ma'am and i'm going back to sleep; have a good day all.

Edited to Add: Neener-Neener-Neener!!!

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 6/5/2008 9:11:10 AM >

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 65

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:15:48 AM

pinnipedster

Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Being reluctant, fearful, anxious or nervous about an activity is only one area of enjoyment for a Domme. It's just one way to be sadistic. There are many others. However, as willing as you think you may be, you might find that a creative Domme can come up with ways to make you feel VERY reluctant without having to fake it at all.

Be careful what you wish for.

Actually, that's exactly the point I think would be ideal to hit -- the point where you crave and fear it at the same time, and in equal amounts.

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 66

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:38:15 AM

pinnipedster

Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
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As to the general topic: Thanks everyone for their answers and insight.

I've got to admit I'm not *entirely* sure whether I'm a sub or a bottom -- or rather, how much of each I am. I certainly have enjoyed serving, but I require *some* kind of acknowledgement of the service. I once had the opportunity to spend a week as a "housewife" for a female friend of mine. It was totally vanilla and non-sexual; I just spent the week doing the cooking and cleaning (while en femme). It was great, but part of what made it great is that she clearly appreciated it and enjoyed having me get up early to fix her breakfast, having dinner waiting when she got home, and to some degree just the company. A more D/s situation might involve a lady who might not actually engage in bondage or 'punishment' but who would insist that I behave in a subservient manner, address her by title, be properly dressed and groomed, etc. On the other hand, a situation where I visited her house once a week while she wasn't there, spent the day cleaning, and was gone before she got home would certainly be providing a service, but would provide very little if any satisfaction to me.

So I suppose I am putting some kind of conditions on my service. I do think that if I got into a deeper relationship, then this would ease up and I might fall more into a service-oriented role and worry less about my own wants -- but I'm by no means certain of that. In any case, I don't try to advertise myself as being primarily service-oriented. This is particulalry true since an experience I had last year, when I discovered that I enjoy pain more than I thought I did, not only at the time but the after-effects -- a session that involved what to some would probably be fairly mild flogging and electrical play had me 'high' for weeks afterwards. So there's no question I am looking for someone who would be willing to provide that for me occaisonally.

As to my issues concerning confidence, self-image, and so forth: that could fill many pages, and affects my life in lots of ways that have nothing to do with BDSM. Suffice to say that at age 47, I am still not really sure what I want to be when (and if) I grow up, but no, I know I'm not particularly happy with where I am now. And no, I don't think that finding a Mistress would magically solve all those issues -- but I also know that being alone isn't particularly helpful.

What do I bring to the table? I think I am intelligent and usually pleasant to be around; I have a good sense of humor, communicate well, and can converse knowledgably on a large number of topics; I am loyal and open and ready to negotiate and compromise; as I note in my profile, I have found myself to be comfortable in the role of 'respected subordinate.' I'm also creative and have a large number of kinks, not all of which I expect to be fulfilled, but there are enough that most any dominant woman would probably find some buttons she would enjoy pressing. I give reasonably good backrubs (though not professional quality) and am affectionate if she likes that kind of thing. And I'm open to a very wide range of possible situations, at least in the short run, though in the long run what I would really like is to find a woman with whom I could be very happy in a vanilla relationship but who is also delightfully kinky. By no means would it have to be 24/7, and I can even imagine switching, as long as she really enjoyed both roles. It would be terrific to find someone with whom singing along with Beatles CD's on the car stereo was as big a part of the relationship as serving as her footstool now and then...

(in reply to pinnipedster)

Post #: 67

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 9:44:53 AM

pinnipedster

Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

*shrug* I sometimes wonder if there is an element of insecurity in one's power that motivates the desire for a reluctant sub. If a dominant can overcome reluctance and overpower resistance, it might be reassuring in some way. It feels more like taking something by force and less like being given something as a gift--and if you can take something by force, you must be strong and dommely and in charge, right?

Well, I do recall a vanilla friend of mine, aware of my bondage fantasises, asking me if my self-image was so low that I only would really believe a woman was attracted to me if she had to 'force' herself upon me. (If she stays here when she's got me tied to the bed, then she must actually want to stay, right?) I don't think it's by any means a complete explanation, but it was an interesting question.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 68

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 11:10:17 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA
I dont agree. that's not dominance. that's topping. topping to me is doing things TO another person, slaving over another person while they lie there and get their fetish attended to. where is the servitude? who is really being served? that is servicing a bottoms need.

a dominant gets served. he doesn't serve. most people here are tops and bottoms. the sub gets shit done to her but shes not serving anyone. she's being "done". most subbies who say they are subs are really bottoms because its all about what they like done to them. humiliate me. tie me up. treat me like a pony. and when thats their primary goal, than thats a bottom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PIXELSLAVE

Oh sheesh! You act as if a Domme doesn't ever enjoy being fully in-control while "on Top" during a scene and having her buttons pushed by it!

- pixel

I didnt say anything about enjoying it or not. why? do you feel that way? calm down.

This is in response to where emphasis has been added to the above in bold.

It would seem to me that if one is doing something "To" another person, "slaving" over them as you said to attend to their fetish, it doesn't sound to me as though they'd be enjoying themselves. My response was simply drawn from the tone and wording of your original post as quoted above.

You've also generalized "most" of the submissives here as being bottoms. I've no doubt there are bottoms that exist here, but you've not provided any quantitative data to support your assertion. I believe there are many genuinely submissive men on CM and feel such comments serve no real purpose other than to alienate submissives who frequent the boards here as opposed to helping them make connections with Dommes in a positive and constructive manner.

- pixel

< Message edited by pixelslave -- 6/5/2008 11:12:11 AM >

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to MISTRESSKUMA)

Post #: 69

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 11:22:20 AM

MISTRESSKUMA

Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline

lol, okay.

Bottom.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 70

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 11:35:01 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

Well, I do recall a vanilla friend of mine, aware of my bondage fantasises, asking me if my self-image was so low that I only would really believe a woman was attracted to me if she had to 'force' herself upon me.

Weird connection there. In my experience, bondage and the fantasies associated with it are about control, not self-image. But I suppose if a woman ties you up and then stays to molest you, rather than taking your car keys and your wallet and hitting the road, it's probably a sign that she likes you.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to pinnipedster)

Post #: 71

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 12:30:36 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
But I suppose if a woman ties you up and then stays to molest you, rather than taking your car keys and your wallet and hitting the road, it's probably a sign that she likes you.

What if she turns the tv on to a Dr. Phil marathon, props you up so you can see it and leaves for the other room; only returning occasionally to check circulation and such?

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 72

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 12:41:30 PM

rubberpet

Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
But I suppose if a woman ties you up and then stays to molest you, rather than taking your car keys and your wallet and hitting the road, it's probably a sign that she likes you.

What if she turns the tv on to a Dr. Phil marathon, props you up so you can see it and leaves for the other room; only returning occasionally to check circulation and such?

Darch, that's nothing. Mistress is a sadist in the truest sense of the word. I was bound to a chair, Mistress turned on Judge Judy AND the 24/7 Polka station while cooking cabbage to eat later! Then, when we went to bed, She was going to force my head under the covers when She needed to "toot"!

HELP!!!! She is too cruel!!! LOL

< Message edited by rubberpet -- 6/5/2008 12:44:07 PM >

_____________________________

Collared and devoted property of Mistress Lorelei (vampchick88) as of 3/26/08.

Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 73

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 12:54:04 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

Darch, that's nothing. Mistress is a sadist in the truest sense of the word. I was bound to a chair, Mistress turned on Judge Judy AND the 24/7 Polka station while cooking cabbage to eat later! Then, when we went to bed, She was going to force my head under the covers when She needed to "toot"!

HELP!!!! She is too cruel!!! LOL

NO MORE!!! NO MORE!!! You had me begging for mercy at polka.

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to rubberpet)

Post #: 74

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 6:06:22 PM

aidan

Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
But I suppose if a woman ties you up and then stays to molest you, rather than taking your car keys and your wallet and hitting the road, it's probably a sign that she likes you.

What if she turns the tv on to a Dr. Phil marathon, props you up so you can see it and leaves for the other room; only returning occasionally to check circulation and such?

I would assume she was sent by the Corporation to drive me mad so that I would cease to be a thorn in their side.

There's no other reason for that kind of inhumanity. At least sociopaths only cut on you.

_____________________________

Do what now?

"I aim to misbehave."
-Mal Reynolds

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 75

RE: Does a sub have to be reluctant? - 6/5/2008 6:59:35 PM

MissEnchanted

Posts: 510
Status: offline

Quick answer:
O, Hell No!

Love a sub who knows what they love, (pain or other), and one of those is to be of real service: Which is whatever the domme really needs.

Their reward for being so open, honest, and serving might be to get some:

Or, a lot

(in reply to pinnipedster)

Post #: 76

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