RE: Racism

RE: Racism (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:17:39 AM)
quote: So says the southern white male.... Tell you what, we'll stop perpetuating it when it ceases to exist. How many educated ( supposedly ) people are going to tell me one more time that Obama is a muslim? Or got sworn in on the Koran? Please. It is fear combined with racism that keeps America so stagnantly behind the times it is embarrassing. Evolve already. snicker Well, sweetheart, two out of three isn't bad. White (scots) male, but hardly southern. Have lived in just about every part of this country. That's part of how I know this crappola about America being "shockingly" segregated is about as substantial as Obama's political credentials--which is to say it has none whatsoever.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:18:19 AM)
quote: I am always shocked by the racial divide in America and by the tenacity of racial prejudice in this country. It's extremely pervasive, though: note the amount of white people who feel that they are somehow discriminated against because of their skin colour when all evidence shows their advantage over others is unquestionable. This is still a shockingly segregated society. I don't know why you're shocked. America isn't the only country that has racial division and prejudice. Last time I watched an American sporting event; I didn't see people shouting racial slurs, making monkey noises, or throwing bananas at black players. I did happen to see that behavior in a few European soccer matches. I do see racism, and I absolutely agree that it exists. I won't be a liar and try to pretend I have never had bigoted feelings or said bigoted things. I most definitely have been guilty of bigotry. I lived in a predominately black neighborhood in Little Rock in 1999-2000, and I won't ever do that again. You can call me racist if you want, but I remember how fucking scary it was coming home at night more than a few times. Now, I do try my best to be fair to everyone I meet. I try not to have preconceived notions about people of any race. I try my hardest to live by the Golden Rule, but it's difficult sometimes. I have yet to meet anyone that doesn't harbor some bigoted thoughts and that goes for people of all different races, ethnicities, and creeds.

OmegaG -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:18:47 AM)
my son is bi-racial and he learns more about segregation and racism from his other side of the family and the black kids in school then he does from the white kids he chooses to hang out with. A couple of years ago when my father was terminally ill we spend a great deal of time in the small village (not even big enough to be a town) where I grew up. The fact that he was the only non-white kid in the neighborhood never seemed to be an issue, but his father's family had a conniption that I'd taken him into that environment. Today, I had a talk with his father's sister about our upcoming move and she was less interested in the quality of the school, the art amenities that the town had, but was interested in how many minorities attended the school. With that said, I've seen racism practiced. His father and I were pulled over when test driving a car because the dealer had placed the plate in the window where it wasn't visible. He was patted down, handcuffed in the back of the police cruiser and his licence ran for information. I was barely given a passing glance, and I'd been driving the car. The officer that pulled us over was also black.

Aynne -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:24:05 AM)
giggle Well, sugarshorts, I am not an Obama supporter either so I will swap my southern error for your Obama assumption. I merely was showing how uncomprehensibly stupid the racism surrounding him is, and it all stems from fear. Having been married to a minority for many years and now in a serious relationship with another I can from personal experience tell you unequivacolly that America has a huge problem with racism. Not to mention just being an observer of human nature. You choose not to see it and I am sure being a white male you don't deal with all that much, do you? Have a hard time getting a cab lately? Ummm, no? quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: So says the southern white male.... Tell you what, we'll stop perpetuating it when it ceases to exist. How many educated ( supposedly ) people are going to tell me one more time that Obama is a muslim? Or got sworn in on the Koran? Please. It is fear combined with racism that keeps America so stagnantly behind the times it is embarrassing. Evolve already. snicker Well, sweetheart, two out of three isn't bad. White (scots) male, but hardly southern. Have lived in just about every part of this country. That's part of how I know this crappola about America being "shockingly" segregated is about as substantial as Obama's political credentials--which is to say it has none whatsoever.

persephonee -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:25:37 AM)
ahem....taptaptap...is this thing on?? 1- CL....this thread aside im sooo crushing on you. (Your views are infuriating in this instance....but still....) 2-sbfy....there is a distinct difference between being concerned for your safety in an unsafe environment and being a bigot. People are who they are and do what they do. i dont go out in certain neighborhoods at certain times alone...its not bigotry its personal safety. Its if you were to allow your fear to guide all decisions and perceptions in all areas unrelated that you would be in danger of becoming something less than what you are....

persephonee -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:27:30 AM)
sugarshorts.....hehe

Aynne -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:28:30 AM)
Wait a minute celticlord, umm, you say you aren't southern? K, I just looked at your profile after you looked at mine. Let's recap. You live in Texas dude. Texas? Up here in New England we call Texas southern. Call me crazy.[8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: So says the southern white male.... Tell you what, we'll stop perpetuating it when it ceases to exist. How many educated ( supposedly ) people are going to tell me one more time that Obama is a muslim? Or got sworn in on the Koran? Please. It is fear combined with racism that keeps America so stagnantly behind the times it is embarrassing. Evolve already. snicker Well, sweetheart, two out of three isn't bad. White (scots) male, but hardly southern. Have lived in just about every part of this country. That's part of how I know this crappola about America being "shockingly" segregated is about as substantial as Obama's political credentials--which is to say it has none whatsoever.

kittinSol -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:29:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne sugarshorts That's cute :-) .

Aynne -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:29:59 AM)
but but ..... he called me sweetheart first! I was torn between sugarshorts and candypants. Glad you liked it![;)] quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee sugarshorts.....hehe

Mercnbeth -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:37:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Mercnbeth...remeber the people perpetuating those behaviors were of a previous generation... How about you..will you perpetuate them? I think not or at least I hope not...so there is change. Does being from a previous generation exempt them from ridicule? It appears that many of the most recent generation not only want to perpetuate them but advance them and formalize them. There were racist acceptable standards when I grew up. There were no signs on the beach of Atlantic City, but every summer the people segregated themselves not only by race, but by ethic groups. It was silly then, excused by the prejudices of the "older generation". But what of today's generation who somehow sees the allocation of spots in a recruit class of police and/or firemen, instead of spots on the sand, within a quota system as a good thing? Where is the outcry and why isn't that just as silly? I despise prejudice and racism as much as I despise created 'victims' and rationalized failure. It also doesn't matter to me what race perpetrates it. My favorite response to some fool who tells me a 'joke' drawn from negative racial or ethnic stereotypes is to say; "My mother was ( )" Filling in the blank for whatever ignorant prejudice was exposed. I trust that the usual apology and silence that follows at least gives the bigot something to ponder in the future. I like people with integrity who are open and honest; accepting that history documents terrible examples of humanity's inhumanity. Go back far enough and there is no race or ethic background is exempt from being slaves or having slaves. There are no slaves in the US today. There is nothing standing in their way of anyone's success other than their rationalized acceptance of failure perpetrated by a 'good intent' programs representing a bigotry of low expectations. I do not lower my standards or qualifications when hiring a person based upon race anymore than I have a race based standard of socializing.

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:40:38 AM)
Sugarshorts or Candypants..... hmmm ... hard decision. I am southern and damned proud of it. I was born here, raised here and didn't move out till I joined the military. The fact that I am a proud southern white male automatically leads many to believe that I am a racist. The funny thing about that is I am the only white man that my friend's father will sit down and hold a conversation with. The man was a Black Panther and is a self described bigot who hates all whites. I helped his son when he lost his job, not because he was black but because he was a friend in need. His father met me talked to me and called me the most "colorless" man he had ever met. If he can overcome his bigotry and hatreds, why can't others?

kdsub -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:44:58 AM)
Mercnbeth...I am making no judgments or excluding anyone from blame ...nor do I care if whites congregate with whites and blacks with blacks on a beach just so long as they are not forced to. Neither am I saying their have not been over-reactions here and there... Nor am I defending affirmative action...Only that things are improving overall in race relations. Butch

stella41b -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:45:45 AM)
I'm human and the way I see it just like everyone part of one race - the human race. You want me to differentiate? Tell me your name. That's about as far as it goes.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:48:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Mercnbeth...I am making no judgments or excluding anyone from blame ...nor do I care if whites congregate with whites and blacks with blacks on a beach just so long as they are not forced to. Neither am I saying their have not been over-reactions here and there... Nor am I defending affirmative action...Only that things are improving overall in race relations. Butch Good for you Butch! I hope to see you in the vanguard with me striving for the elimination of legislation such as AA that insures the legalized perpetuation of racism. Anything that creates a victim mentality on both sides will never achieve its desired goal.

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:51:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b I'm human and the way I see it just like everyone part of one race - the human race. You want me to differentiate? Tell me your name. That's about as far as it goes. Fantastic post. It's simple and yet cuts to the very heart of the solution to this issue.

PainSmith -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:56:16 AM)
This is a fascinatedly American discussion. I'd like to throw in a European perspective. First of all, here are two interesting definitions of racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism): 1. any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life (UN) 2. Article 21 of the charter prohibits discrimination on any ground such as race, color, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, disability, age or sexual orientation and also discrimination on the grounds of nationality. (EU, a more general definiton of bigotry, which includes sexism, nationalism, etc.). Europe has had a problem with racism, a problem which hasn't gone away as the Balkans proved in the 1990s. This wasn't racism against blacks, but against Muslims, among others, combined with rabid Serbian and Croat nationalism. Racism on the grounds of skin colour is merely one form of racism. Racism on the grounds of culture, as against Jews and Muslims, is a very common form too. There is a very pan-European problem of racism against Gypsies, which is not being addressed (which is worrying, frankly). Racism clearly exists against black people, but it's one of many forms. I can see the argument for affirmative action in countries which consist only of one people, despite it being technically racist in its own right, because there, institutions do not have to be intentionally anti-bigotry to work. American, from this perspective, is a country of one people, the Americans, even though the people come from zillions of different sources, as this thread shows. But countries of many different peoples must already have structures which are anti-bigotry, beause they simply couldn't work otherwise. In these countries, those existing mechanisms should be strengthened, repaired and adapted. Examples include the UK (with four peoples), Belgium (two), Russia (over a hundred!), and many more. But whilst nationalism is so strong, racism is just another form of bigotry that has to be monitored and addressed.

kdsub -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 11:57:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Mercnbeth...I am making no judgments or excluding anyone from blame ...nor do I care if whites congregate with whites and blacks with blacks on a beach just so long as they are not forced to. Neither am I saying their have not been over-reactions here and there... Nor am I defending affirmative action...Only that things are improving overall in race relations. Butch Good for you Butch! I hope to see you in the vanguard with me striving for the elimination of legislation such as AA that insures the legalized perpetuation of racism. Anything that creates a victim mentality on both sides will never achieve its desired goal. Affirmative action and other legislation was not the direction of my posts...only that from generation to generation things are getting better.... Myself I would love to do away with AA and make those same determinations on economic standing... It may very well help mostly the same people but there would be no race involved. I don't see how anyone could object to that...Everyone is always saying money is what counts...so make it count where it will help the most...Those that can not afford to pay...Better themselves and there families regardless of race. Butch

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 12:03:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Good for you Butch! I hope to see you in the vanguard with me striving for the elimination of legislation such as AA that insures the legalized perpetuation of racism. Anything that creates a victim mentality on both sides will never achieve its desired goal. Affirmative action and other legislation was not the direction of my posts...only that from generation to generation things are getting better.... Myself I would love to do away with AA and make those same determinations on economic standing... It may very well help mostly the same people but there would be no race involved. I don't see how anyone could object to that Butch But of course those who expect too be given a job based on things other than ability will object. they will cry discrimination and the whole process will bein again. Too many are lost in the victim mentality and are unable to stand on their own two feet.

kdsub -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 12:08:04 PM)
Hi Irishknight...can't please everyone but I'll bet the majority will think it better than using race. That majority would include minorities I'll bet...People are good and fair on average. ps sorry for changing my post after you quoted it. Butch

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 12:12:39 PM)
No problem, Butch. Given the opportunity, most employers will hire the person who will most benefit their business. It is only smart business to grab onto the best assets you can and hold onto them.

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