RE: Racism

RE: Racism (Full Version)

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atursvcMaam -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 12:18:51 PM)
If you keep on picking at the scab, the wound won't heal. If you dwell on the pain, it will endure. Tincture of iodine, or hydrogen peroxide will keep it from gettting infected if you can't resist picking at it. It should be up in the corner of your medicine cabinet somewhere. (in other words, you have the solution, simply use it) i did not inflict the pain, and will make an effort not to hurt you while, or even after, you recover.

pinksugarsub -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Mercnbeth...remeber the people perpetuating those behaviors were of a previous generation... How about you..will you perpetuate them? I think not or at least I hope not...so there is change. Does being from a previous generation exempt them from ridicule? It appears that many of the most recent generation not only want to perpetuate them but advance them and formalize them. There were racist acceptable standards when I grew up. There were no signs on the beach of Atlantic City, but every summer the people segregated themselves not only by race, but by ethic groups. It was silly then, excused by the prejudices of the "older generation". But what of today's generation who somehow sees the allocation of spots in a recruit class of police and/or firemen, instead of spots on the sand, within a quota system as a good thing? Where is the outcry and why isn't that just as silly? I despise prejudice and racism as much as I despise created 'victims' and rationalized failure. It also doesn't matter to me what race perpetrates it. My favorite response to some fool who tells me a 'joke' drawn from negative racial or ethnic stereotypes is to say; "My mother was ( )" Filling in the blank for whatever ignorant prejudice was exposed. I trust that the usual apology and silence that follows at least gives the bigot something to ponder in the future. I like people with integrity who are open and honest; accepting that history documents terrible examples of humanity's inhumanity. Go back far enough and there is no race or ethic background is exempt from being slaves or having slaves. There are no slaves in the US today. There is nothing standing in their way of anyone's success other than their rationalized acceptance of failure perpetrated by a 'good intent' programs representing a bigotry of low expectations. I do not lower my standards or qualifications when hiring a person based upon race anymore than I have a race based standard of socializing. Merc, maybe i'm misreading You, but did You just say that the only traces of racism in this country are afformative action and similar programs? i couldn't possible disagree more with that. pinksugarsub

DomAviator -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:17:30 PM)
I am a southern white male, Texan... I am also of white South African (Afrikaaner) ancestry... I am in many ways a bigot and I admit it. My dad was something midway between Archie Bunker and the Master Chief Billy Sunday (Robert DiNiro) charecter in the movie Men of Honor. I have my prejudices and I admit them but they tend to be more upon the lines of socioeconomic class (or more precisely lack thereof) than skin tone... For example, I have a man living in my neighborhood who is probably the most dark skinned black man I have ever seen. Yet I dont see him as black. It could have something to do with the fact that he is an Air Force Academy graduate, had a distinguished military career, and is now a NASA astronaut. He also shuns the hip hop culture, doesnt see Sharpton et al as his leader, etc, and doesnt think he is entitled to a god damn thing that he doesnt earn himself. Similarly, Missouri City, Texas is essentially "The Black Clear Lake" (Clear Lake is a nice community that a lot of NASA folks live in)... Missouri City is a heavily black community (in fact I think its 60% - 70% black) filled with manicured lawns, driveways with BMW's and Hummers, and some of the nicest folk you could ever want to meet. Sucessful people who completely disavow the "black culture" and who are busy going through life enjoying their careers as doctors, lawyers, engineers, investment bankers etc in this land where there is supposedly "no opportunity for the black man" (If you listen to Sharpton, Jerimiah Wright, Farrakhan etc) I dont feel that I owe anyone, black or white, a damn thing. So the blacks were slaves once upon a time. Too bad, too sad - get over it. Everyone was. Im half Scottish - ever seen Braveheart? Yeah we had it good under English Rule. My Afrikaaner side of the family had it just rosy under the Dutch too... Aussies are a bunch of convicts thrown onto a continent to fend for themselves and they made out ok...How about the Jews? Is there anyone on the planet who has taken more shit and been fucked with more than the Jews? Forget the Holocaust - go back them being slaves in Egypt! Then Being blamed for the Black Death in Europe. To this day they cant get on a bus without wondering if someone is gonna blow themselves up??? Are they whining? No they are too busy getting a good education, living a good life, building a future for their families, etc... Ill present two examples of whats "racism".... When I was in college students of "African American Ancestry" registered FIRST. Ie the day before seniors, the students of "African American Ancestry" registered. Meaning as a senior I could be shut out of a class I need to graduate by a black freshman! Well I grabbed my moms South African passport (she is a dual citizen) and hopped right the fuck in that line and they werent having it... You're not Black! Well the line doesnt say BLACK it says "African American" I am ONE GENERATION removed from Africa and here is a "Republik du Sud Afrika" passport to prove it! These people are 200 years removed from Africa. I fought that one al the way to the dean - and won! Instance two, while I was in the Navy there was a black aviator in my squadron. Hell of a nice guy, excellent pilot, top evals, and he was an Academy grad. HOWEVER, because he was black there was a neer do well, misfit ghettotrash ebonics speaking black sailor who felt they were "homies" and that military courtesy, docorum and protocol didnt apply. I will never forget this incident. He was addressed as "yo brother" my this guy who was like an E-2 striking for a rate. The black officer went off - I am not your brother! My mother didnt raise any (n-word)! Dont you dare think we have anything in common etc... I mean he saw to it that the enlisted sailor went to captains mast over it.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee 1- CL....this thread aside im sooo crushing on you. (Your views are infuriating in this instance....but still....) I don't deny that racisim exists. It does. There are bigots out there, no question. What I take issue with is the characterization of the United States as "shockingly segregated". It isn't, and hasn't been for quite some time. If you look, yes, you will find people acting on racial motivations--but they ARE the exception and not the rule. The depiction of the US as a segregated society is simply nonsensical.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:21:03 PM)
quote: Merc, maybe i'm misreading You, but did You just say that the only traces of racism in this country are afformative action and similar programs? I said that we have government programs, such as AA, at the core of perpetuating racism. We won't get rid of the traces until the source of continuing acceptable racism is eliminated.

OmegaG -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:26:03 PM)
AA and other entitlement programs work as a crutch and do no favors to anyone. Racism will go away alot faster if entitlements, crutches and excuses are no longer utilized.

Vestonika -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:37:16 PM)
Being a racist is a lifestyle choice. The trend in America is segregation by lifestyle/interest group. Community becomes more and more fractured due to lack of interest diversity. Americans now socialize in groupthink insularity... both online and offline. What's important is NOT what your age, skin color, gender but your politics/beliefs. Communication is up, Community is becoming nonexistent. quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator I am a southern white male, Texan... I am also of white South African (Afrikaaner) ancestry... I am in many ways a bigot and I admit it. My dad was something midway between Archie Bunker and the Master Chief Billy Sunday (Robert DiNiro) charecter in the movie Men of Honor. I have my prejudices and I admit them but they tend to be more upon the lines of socioeconomic class (or more precisely lack thereof) than skin tone... For example, I have a man living in my neighborhood who is probably the most dark skinned black man I have ever seen. Yet I dont see him as black. It could have something to do with the fact that he is an Air Force Academy graduate, had a distinguished military career, and is now a NASA astronaut. He also shuns the hip hop culture, doesnt see Sharpton et al as his leader, etc, and doesnt think he is entitled to a god damn thing that he doesnt earn himself. Similarly, Missouri City, Texas is essentially "The Black Clear Lake" (Clear Lake is a nice community that a lot of NASA folks live in)... Missouri City is a heavily black community (in fact I think its 60% - 70% black) filled with manicured lawns, driveways with BMW's and Hummers, and some of the nicest folk you could ever want to meet. Sucessful people who completely disavow the "black culture" and who are busy going through life enjoying their careers as doctors, lawyers, engineers, investment bankers etc in this land where there is supposedly "no opportunity for the black man" (If you listen to Sharpton, Jerimiah Wright, Farrakhan etc) I dont feel that I owe anyone, black or white, a damn thing. So the blacks were slaves once upon a time. Too bad, too sad - get over it. Everyone was. Im half Scottish - ever seen Braveheart? Yeah we had it good under English Rule. My Afrikaaner side of the family had it just rosy under the Dutch too... Aussies are a bunch of convicts thrown onto a continent to fend for themselves and they made out ok...How about the Jews? Is there anyone on the planet who has taken more shit and been fucked with more than the Jews? Forget the Holocaust - go back them being slaves in Egypt! Then Being blamed for the Black Death in Europe. To this day they cant get on a bus without wondering if someone is gonna blow themselves up??? Are they whining? No they are too busy getting a good education, living a good life, building a future for their families, etc... Ill present two examples of whats "racism".... When I was in college students of "African American Ancestry" registered FIRST. Ie the day before seniors, the students of "African American Ancestry" registered. Meaning as a senior I could be shut out of a class I need to graduate by a black freshman! Well I grabbed my moms South African passport (she is a dual citizen) and hopped right the fuck in that line and they werent having it... You're not Black! Well the line doesnt say BLACK it says "African American" I am ONE GENERATION removed from Africa and here is a "Republik du Sud Afrika" passport to prove it! These people are 200 years removed from Africa. I fought that one al the way to the dean - and won! Instance two, while I was in the Navy there was a black aviator in my squadron. Hell of a nice guy, excellent pilot, top evals, and he was an Academy grad. HOWEVER, because he was black there was a neer do well, misfit ghettotrash ebonics speaking black sailor who felt they were "homies" and that military courtesy, docorum and protocol didnt apply. I will never forget this incident. He was addressed as "yo brother" my this guy who was like an E-2 striking for a rate. The black officer went off - I am not your brother! My mother didnt raise any (n-word)! Dont you dare think we have anything in common etc... I mean he saw to it that the enlisted sailor went to captains mast over it.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:40:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne Having been married to a minority for many years and now in a serious relationship with another I can from personal experience tell you unequivacolly that America has a huge problem with racism. Not to mention just being an observer of human nature. You choose not to see it and I am sure being a white male you don't deal with all that much, do you? Have a hard time getting a cab lately? Ummm, no? Four of my cousins are mixed-race. I won't say they've never been on the receiving end of racial slurs or racist treatment, but I will say that such treatment has been very much the exception in their lives, not the rule. A caucasian woman I worked with dated black men almost exclusively. That her kids were bi-racial was common knowledge in the company, and no one thought anything about it. I'm sure some people gave her and her children grief about it, but I also know from talking with her that such was not the norm. As for having difficulty catching a cab.....never. However, I've never seen a cab driver here in Houston ignore a black fare to pick up a white fare instead. Does it happen? I'm sure it does. Does it happen all the time, or even most of the time? Not that I have observed. No, my perceptions are not skewed. They are sober and realistic. If you choose to believe otherwise, that is your misfortune.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:47:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Do i owe A/anyone an apology? Restitution? Affirmative action? sugar, you don't owe anyone an apology. it wasn't your fault that warring African tribes sold off their captive enemies to white slave traders. like it isn't your fault that many Black Americans don't want to take the programs and/or advantages offered to better themselves. it's not your fault most would rather wait for restitution and affirmative action to give them a "hand out". it's not your fault there are those who have no desire to "rise above their situation" and succeed. i get laughed at and called a white man's whore every time the "shoulda, coulda woulda" men see me going out on a date with the local dominant i'm dating. they stand on their porch day in and out snickering and commenting on the type of car he drives. what's funny is they're the ones without a job and/or a ride of their own. so, sugar, there's no need to apologize to anyone from my pov - everyone makes a choice whether or not they want to succeed in life. you shouldn't be the one paying for the bad choices made.

OmegaG -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:54:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne Having been married to a minority for many years and now in a serious relationship with another I can from personal experience tell you unequivacolly that America has a huge problem with racism. Not to mention just being an observer of human nature. You choose not to see it and I am sure being a white male you don't deal with all that much, do you? Have a hard time getting a cab lately? Ummm, no? Four of my cousins are mixed-race. I won't say they've never been on the receiving end of racial slurs or racist treatment, but I will say that such treatment has been very much the exception in their lives, not the rule. A caucasian woman I worked with dated black men almost exclusively. That her kids were bi-racial was common knowledge in the company, and no one thought anything about it. I'm sure some people gave her and her children grief about it, but I also know from talking with her that such was not the norm. As for having difficulty catching a cab.....never. However, I've never seen a cab driver here in Houston ignore a black fare to pick up a white fare instead. Does it happen? I'm sure it does. Does it happen all the time, or even most of the time? Not that I have observed. No, my perceptions are not skewed. They are sober and realistic. If you choose to believe otherwise, that is your misfortune. I think that people see and remember what they choose. I used to share a house with another single mother, we both had kids that were bi-racial. She would take a trip to a grocery store and come back with countless stories of people giving her disproving looks because of her child or out and out acting rude, all because her child had darker skin then she did. I don't share her experience or her impression. I meet just as many people who are rude when I am by myself as when I am with my child. I don't automatically assume that the person scowling when they pass me is making a face because of me, I am not that good of a mind reader. Basically, she was far more hypersensetive to her perception of what others thought of her and it translated into racist behaviour in her mind then I am. Are there people who are racist and bigotted? Sure, I was great friends with a guy who was ademently opposed to interracial breeding. As was my father. However, both of these men were civilized enough to recognize that they could not dictate what others did and both of them treated my son with respect, in my father's case, love.

servantheart -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OmegaG my son is bi-racial and he learns more about segregation and racism from his other side of the family and the black kids in school then he does from the white kids he chooses to hang out with. A couple of years ago when my father was terminally ill we spend a great deal of time in the small village (not even big enough to be a town) where I grew up. The fact that he was the only non-white kid in the neighborhood never seemed to be an issue, but his father's family had a conniption that I'd taken him into that environment. Today, I had a talk with his father's sister about our upcoming move and she was less interested in the quality of the school, the art amenities that the town had, but was interested in how many minorities attended the school. With that said, I've seen racism practiced. His father and I were pulled over when test driving a car because the dealer had placed the plate in the window where it wasn't visible. He was patted down, handcuffed in the back of the police cruiser and his licence ran for information. I was barely given a passing glance, and I'd been driving the car. The officer that pulled us over was also black. Same thing here. My sister was married to a man who came from a Hispanic mother and White father. Guess which side was rascist? On this side, his heritage was a non-issue. His mother's side, on the other hand, were openly contemptuous because they felt that their son should have married a Hispanic woman. Some of them even refused to attend the wedding. In other words, they hated her because of the color of her skin. This kind of treatment continued for the entire 11 years they were married. A bigot is a bigot no matter the color of his/her skin. ETA: In spite of the disgusting treatment my sister received at the hands of her so-called "family" on her ex-husband's side, to this day, she continues to teach her kids about their Hispanic heritage because she wants to ensure they know where they come from.

DomAviator -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 1:58:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 As for having difficulty catching a cab.....never. However, I've never seen a cab driver here in Houston ignore a black fare to pick up a white fare instead. Does it happen? I'm sure it does. Does it happen all the time, or even most of the time? Not that I have observed. Frankly, sometimes it SHOULD happen... Cabbies work largely for tips and have a downright dangerous job at times. (Remember the TSA isnt screening cab passengers like those who board an airliner). I cannot envision a situation in which a cabbie in his right mind would drive past a well dressed black man who looks like hes got the fair money and will tip well. The only color a cabbie cares about are red and green. Red for his blood and green for the passengers money. If there is a herd of trashy looking young black males with their pants halfway down around their asses flashing gang signs etc - do you REALLY think hes going to pull over and pick them up? Would you want them in your car? Somehow I doubt that Colin Powell or Condie Rice or the late Johnny Cochran would have any problem hailing a cab in any city in America. Would "Blu Fly The Pimp" or Fat Leroy of the Southside Crips? Sure - and thats not racism thats the way it should be! The cabbie wants to make sure his red wont go on the windshield and your green will go in his pocket. You know, if I have been working out in the yard and look dirty, grubby, and poor enough nobody will pick my white ass up either.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:11:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator You know, if I have been working out in the yard and look dirty, grubby, and poor enough nobody will pick my white ass up either. This is true. If I go out looking like shit, generally folks like waiters and store clerks treat me like shit. If I clean up a bit first, I get treated much nicer.

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub Do i owe A/anyone an apology? Restitution? Affirmative action? sugar, you don't owe anyone an apology. it wasn't your fault that warring African tribes sold off their captive enemies to white slave traders. like it isn't your fault that many Black Americans don't want to take the programs and/or advantages offered to better themselves. it's not your fault most would rather wait for restitution and affirmative action to give them a "hand out". it's not your fault there are those who have no desire to "rise above their situation" and succeed. i get laughed at and called a white man's whore every time the "shoulda, coulda woulda" men see me going out on a date with the local dominant i'm dating. they stand on their porch day in and out snickering and commenting on the type of car he drives. what's funny is they're the ones without a job and/or a ride of their own. so, sugar, there's no need to apologize to anyone from my pov - everyone makes a choice whether or not they want to succeed in life. you shouldn't be the one paying for the bad choices made. You sound like so many of my friends. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Rule -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:13:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OmegaG ... I don't automatically assume that the person scowling when they pass me is making a face because of me, I am not that good of a mind reader. Good attitude. I have been accused twice of being angry while shopping in a supermarket by people that I had not or scarcely noticed. I was rather surprised, as I was minding my own business and was not angry at all.

Irishknight -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:24:20 PM)
Rule, I've scared small children in stores because I was deep in thought and wore that scowling look.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:31:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Rule, I've scared small children in stores because I was deep in thought and wore that scowling look. Hell, I've scared the salespeople that way. (what is it about a field jacket, baseball cap, and flannel shirts that unnerves people, anyway?)

servantheart -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:32:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee ahem....taptaptap...is this thing on?? 1- CL....this thread aside im sooo crushing on you. (Your views are infuriating in this instance....but still....) ahem....taptaptap.....He's MINEMINEMINEMINEMINEMINE!!! [;)] [sm=oddballs.gif] [sm=wife.gif] [sm=weightlift.gif] [sm=dancer.gif]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:33:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantheart ahem....taptaptap.....He's MINEMINEMINEMINEMINEMINE!!! ahem.... who belongs to whom?

servantheart -> RE: Racism (6/3/2008 2:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: servantheart ahem....taptaptap.....He's MINEMINEMINEMINEMINEMINE!!! ahem.... who belongs to whom? Sorry, Sir....lost control of myself for a moment there [:)] I am Yours. [sm=kiss.gif]

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