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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/4/2008 10:38:11 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		OP, I can't see how the scenario described has anything to do with the person being a switch or non-lifestyler... they just sound annoying or outright obnoxious.  Could just as easily be a dominant telling another dominant that "they can make them the submissive they really are inside" or a male trying to cajole a lesbian into trying him, because he's sure he's the exception.

Some folks just don't take "sorry, not interested".

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/4/2008 11:01:03 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

OP, I can't see how the scenario described has anything to do with the person being a switch or non-lifestyler... they just sound annoying or outright obnoxious.  Could just as easily be a dominant telling another dominant that "they can make them the submissive they really are inside" or a male trying to cajole a lesbian into trying him, because he's sure he's the exception.

Some folks just don't take "sorry, not interested".


oh, yea...what she said...

in my first response, i just answered the OP's topic question because he added a whole bunch on uneccessary drama bullshit to the post so my eyes glazed over after the first line or so because it sounded like a highschool girl's recount of what happend at lunch that day....to the OP....you should work on that...

chelle


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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/4/2008 11:55:40 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

To the OP,

Sorry to hear you had such an unpleasant date.

I'd suggest, like many here have, that you just move on but I can see how that would be difficult being that she is part of your social circle (even if only peripherally).  I guess you could try to see this as an opportunity to weed out those of your friends who really are your friends and those who are simply fair weather friends - lol.

I'm sorry I don't have any better advice but maybe you should just be thankful that she is not part of your work/business circle - lol.

Good luck to you,
Wickad

PS - as a feminist, I don't care what choices women make about their personal lives; I care that they are able to make those choices, period!

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 12:58:00 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

Basically, I just was not into being a Bottom to the things she wanted to do to me!!! Geeeshh.. Really is that simple. Ok, so I explained a few things, I thought would enlighten her. That's why I explained what I did, to enlighten her. She was fixated upon this notion or idea about doing certain things to me! Sorry! Is Not happening!

If this makes me seem like an asshole to anybody, screw it!

The moment that someone who feels they are emlightening me gets angry I lose respect.
Anger is just a tactic we all use when we cannot control a situation. I'm a nother so I understand this. I try to enlighten my kids sometimes: you know because I have been a kid myself and also because of over 25 years in the mothering lifestyle.. The very momet I get angry with them I have lost.
More than anything bdsm isn't about control, changing their(kinky non-lifestylers, kinky vanillas,choose-anothr-label) beliefs or enlightening them. it isn't about controlling someone's reactions. For a dominant this must be a very hard lesson to learn. It must be the core paradox itself. If anything might i suggest, from a submissive's point of biew that domination is about containingg my reactions rather than controlling them (If I didn't wrythe or scream or protest or lip back or resist, at leat a little, I would just be passive rather than submissive.)
In parental terms when my kids kisk iff it's about me providing a safe home environment for them to kick off in, ther's the analogy.
You can't control what she said you said she said she said she said and so forth. And in any case even if she said you said she said you said: really?


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 6/5/2008 1:36:13 AM >

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 2:09:14 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

Basically, I just was not into being a Bottom to the things she wanted to do to me!!! Geeeshh.. Really is that simple. Ok, so I explained a few things, I thought would enlighten her. That's why I explained what I did, to enlighten her. She was fixated upon this notion or idea about doing certain things to me! Sorry! Is Not happening!

If this makes me seem like an asshole to anybody, screw it!

The moment that someone who feels they are emlightening me gets angry I lose respect.
Anger is just a tactic we all use when we cannot control a situation. I'm a nother so I understand this. I try to enlighten my kids sometimes: you know because I have been a kid myself. The very momet I get angry with them I have lost.
More than anything bdsm isn't about control, changing their(kinky non-lifestylers, kinky vanillas,choose-anothr-label) beliefs or enlightening them. it isn't about controlling someone's reactions. For a dominant this must be a very hard lesson to learn. It must be the core paradox itself. If anything might i suggest, from a submissive's point of biew that domination is about containingg my reactions rather than controlling them (If I didn't wrythe or scream or protest or lip back or resist, at leat a little, I would just be passive rather than submissive.)
In parental terms when my kids kisk iff it's about me providing a safe home environment for them to kick off in, ther's the analogy.
You can't control what she said you said she said she said she said and so forth. And in any case even if she said you said she said you said: really?



Prinsexx, I was not angry with her that night.  In fact, Hell I was not angry with her until after I found out she was starting to stir up things.   This is when I got Angry.. yes pissed.   You are reading a negative connotation into a simple word I used "Enlighten", this word does not express anything negative.  It's simply a matter of sharing with somebody a little more detail for the sake of insight.  She did not grasp the polite meaning of "No I'm not into that", she pushed things.   I decided and felt it best at the time to explain it to her.  Thought it would make it even clearer to her that I had no interest.   Keep in mind I am posting on here in retrospect to the events that unfolded.   Yes, I'm a little pissed.   Make me feel a little fucked with.  I was polite, I went so far to give her an honest to goodness explaination.   Hell, she did not even know what a Dom or submissive or a switch was until that night.  Think it's clear I did enlighten her somewhat,  regardless of how she views things.  At least it's something that will stay in her mind.  Perhaps one day she will come across something posted on the internet.  She might gain an even higher understanding.   Who the hell knows.

I have no control over what she thinks, feels or says.  Now, some people have made posts in regards to how they have dealt with people when it comes to explaining things to them.   Some people simply don't at all.  It's a bit of a risk whenever you go there.   In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again.  I just might have excused myself and blew her off and went home.  Just said thank you but no thank you.   Now I suppose this might have lead to having to deal with a few phone call from her afterwards.  Don't know.  I can't change what was said and done.

As somebody pointed out, this just might be a good time to see who is or not really my friend.  So perhaps some good will come of all this madness.  One thing is for certain, just because somebody is kinky does not mean they are open minded about "the lifestyle" on a whole.   In some regards, yes, I shared something with her with a measure of hopeful trust.  Was not expecting her to go running around town going blah blah blah, even more so with the spin job she was making out of it.

The one good thing is that I've been out of the closet with my close friends, They know about it.  Anyways, I really was not prepared for this one.  Sort of caught me off guard.  Really did not make my day finding out about all this.

I have read some really excellent responses from people, with great advice, thoughts on the subject. How the do or not do it.  Even some advice on how to deal with it now.  However I know myself, if she keeps this up... I'll probally chew her ass up grass in a lawn mower cranked up to the Rabbit setting.  At times that's the about the only way some people gain respect for you.  But that's another twisted topic in itself.  

Getting angry does not mean you have lost, unless you loose control of yourself when angry!  Being angry in my opinion, experience and POV is a perfectly acceptable and normal human reaction.  Long as I maintain control, don't go off killing somebody, start breaking things, and going off the deep end hitting anybody.

Hey she was pushing the shock collars and crop my ass thing on me.  Now, she's pushing things around in social circles.  Thinks this alone says a lot about her.   I wonder how many other people have went through similar experiences with her.  Mmmmm...  interesting.  Something tells me I'm not the only one.

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 6:31:49 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		~Prinsexx, I was not angry with her that night.  In fact, Hell I was not angry with her until after I found out she was starting to stir up things. ~
So when you became angry as a reaction to what she did….does that justify being angry?   

~Hell, she did not even know what a Dom or submissive or a switch was until that night.~
Did you know that she was naïve and/or vanilla before the date? If so then you could have behaved accordingly. Even if it became clear during the date that she was naïve/vanilla then you could have behaved appropriately, probably steering her away from talking about the lifestyle altogether.  

~I'll probally chew her ass up grass in a lawn mower cranked up to the Rabbit setting.  At times that's the about the only way some people gain respect for you.~
I know very few woman who respect anger in men. Some of the women I know have had very bad experiences with angry men, including myself. Another word for the sort of anger I am talking about is abusiveness. 

~Getting angry does not mean you have lost, unless you loose control of yourself when angry! I am suggesting that any form of anger is a form of losing control. ~
If you go back to how I originally defined anger it was stating that anger is a reactance to feeling out of control of the situation. Out of control of the situation equates with out of control of the self. 

~I wonder how many other people have went through similar experiences with her.  Mmmmm...  interesting.  Something tells me I'm not the only one.~
Whatt tells you you are not the only one? Suspicion? Hard evidence? Fact? Rumour’Prejudice? So having experience as a woman is a bad thing? whereas being experienced is a good thing for a man? That old story again.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 6/5/2008 6:33:20 AM >

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 7:16:01 AM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		No matter how hard you try... One cannot pound a round peg into a square hole.

Just the fact that you are trying, says alot about you as a person.

CD

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 7:24:39 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

No matter how hard you try... One cannot pound a round peg into a square hole.

Just the fact that you are trying, says alot about you as a person.

CD




the.dark.

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 8:55:38 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

No matter how hard you try... One cannot pound a round peg into a square hole.

Just the fact that you are trying, says alot about you as a person.

CD


I understand what you are expressing here.  What I find ironic though, is that she was attempting to pound me into a hole that I did not fit into.  Mind you, I have already expressed that if I had to do this all over again.  I would simply not even mention anything about the lifestyle.  I was not trying to thrust the lifestyle down her throat.   Think the door got opened up when I said, I'm sorry I'm a Dom.  What's that?  then an endless series of questions and answers.  It was not like I sat there pounding on somebody not interested in the topic, nor was I trying to thrust it down her throat.   It takes two people to engage in a conversation.  We did not fight, hell neither one of us even raised our voices.   She did not agree with the aspects of D/s.  Trust me, this girl was asking questions.  I'd answer and she'd ask more questions.   Think It lasted a good 30-45 minutes worth of conversation time.   I knew things were not a match for her and I.   I was not trying to make her fit into my world.  She was trying to figure out a way to get me to spring on going back to her place for some wild kinky play.   Which included me wearing a collar and getting my ass cropped.  

Key factor here!  Her and I had a two way conversation.  Yes, I was willing to share with her things.  This is going to drive me crazy that nobody is actually listening to the fact.  That I was not forcing anything upon her.  Make her fit into some hole.  Still after all that was said, she was still trying attempting to get me to go play with her.   I said, It's getting late.. need to get going.  Departed all nice and peaceful.  Hell, with even a hug between us.   Enjoyed the night and yadda yadda.   

In all honestly, were exactly was I trying to force a round peg into a square hole here?   Hell I was not trying to!  She was trying to.. which is the core of the whole thread.

She was trying to force something that was not gonna happen.  I said nope sorry.  Got the whole why not, how do you know unless you try it routine.  One door after another opening up more and more into BDSM.   I was opening up with her about things so she could better understand she was barking up the wrong tree (hence enlighten her).  Once that door was open she was asking more and more questions about D/s and Doms and submisisves.  Where she expressed her own views on the matter.  I basically sat there and defended Our Freedom of choice, Yes, I made a statement that not every women buys into the whole feminist movement.  This is a Truth!  I was attempting to shed some light into matter.  That things are consentual and are about choice.  I by no means slammed the femistist movement down in her face.  I just said, it was not for everybody.  We did not get into a fight about it!  Like I keep on saying.  She was prying at me and Wa La... It led to me sharing with her a few things.

Hell, I suppose I could have been a bastard and said, Yes I'll go back to your place as long as you don't try to top me.  This girl was talking about putting Shock collars around my neck, somehow with the notion that I would enjoy it as much as she does.   Hell, she went on about how she got her Ex to wear one.  How he was so reluctant to do it, but then she got him to agree to it he enjoyed it.   Like I said... this was a 30-45 min conversation.  A lot of things were said.   Far more then what a lot of people are latching onto her!

When I say, she was trying her damnest to figure out how to get a collar around my neck and wanting to crop my ass.  I'm making it pretty clear.    Also, that I was not forcing anything on her.  Again, conversation leading down a path one door opening another door.  Yes, I shared with her a few things, so she better understand!   She asked me a lot of questions!  I was not sitting there giving her some form or lecture!  

Again, she was asking me lots of questions!  Pandora's box had been opened!  I was giving her the answers and explaining things in detail!  Yes, I was trying to enlighten here!  I was not trying to force feed it. 

If somebody were to ask you 101 questions about the lifestyle and you answered and shared things to help another understand things better, would you consider yourself trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. 

(in reply to CruelDesires)
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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 9:25:27 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		KISS (keep it simple stupid).


This is on par with a Girl trying to convince a Gay guy to go home and fuck her. Then end up having a 30-45 minute conversation about why he's gay.  She expresses how it's not right that men should be with women.  He say's not everybody thinks that way or buys into.  Some men simply love being with men.  Then she continues to press the issue, as if she can somehow turn the guy straight after she's fucked his brains out.   The gay guy excuses himself, says it's getting late.  Doe not go home with girl.

Then time passes.  Turns out the girl is running all over town, slamming the guy who treated her nice.  Saying he's such a butt fucking boy fag, just a piece of shit sissy.  She says this stuff to the gay guys friends even.   They defend their gay friend.  They let him know this girl is running around saying a lot of twisted shit.

Now, the gay guy pops onto an online Gay Community to share with others what had happened.  He had treated this girl nicely.  Attempt to explain why he was gay, and that gay people are not really all that bad.  That some men simply enjoy men over women.   Next thing you know, the Gay guy is be accused of trying to thrust his Gay lifestyle down this girls throat.

The Gay guy attempts to clear up this misunderstanding. That some of his fellow members in the gay community have about what happen.   That he by no means tried forcing anything down this girls throat.  In fact the he accepted the girl for being hetrosexual and did not slam her for it.

The Gay guy is feeling totally misunderstood.  As people take his words and twist them around into something else.. over and over again. 




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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 9:32:29 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		My favourite:
Q: How many psychotherapists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: That depends upon whether the light bulb is willing to change or not.


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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 9:56:12 AM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Okay. Let me put it this way .

It is basic human nature. People are who they are. Talking about it, pondering it, banging your head on the wall about it, defending your views on it, attempting to change it, stressing over it, wasting your time on it, are all lessons in futility. Just experience life and recognize that we are all different and acknowledge you cannot change others if they don't want to change... and move on. The rest is a waste of time and energy.  
CD

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 12:47:13 PM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

.

He own personal views are as such, Doms are selfish and subs are doormats.  I tried to explain that this is not really the case.  I actually think I had a die hard femists on my hands.   I went so far to explain to her that not every women buys into or wants to be part of the femists movement.




slightly off topic and not to spend too much time on my soap box--

i've identified as a feminist for almost as long as i've identified as switch. there are plently of pro-sex pro-kink feminists, that's actually what got me into the feminist movement in the first place -- female sexual freedom of expression. hence the sex wars in the 80s. just making sure you're not trying to blame her personal views on the feminist movement unless you actually asked her if she's a feminist.

on topic fr---

if you don't click then don't try to force it. as for the explanation i will explain it if asked but i don't get into the dirty details of anything unless i feel that it's with someone sympathetic. the problem is, don't assume that people won't judge you just because of your or their interests. every one judges everyone to some extant. it all matters on how open they are about it.


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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 2:29:14 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

No matter how hard you try... One cannot pound a round peg into a square hole.

Just the fact that you are trying, says alot about you as a person.

CD


Actually you can.

The Quakers used this method using Round pieces if pine and punded them into the connection joints for Barns and other building it created a Strong Joint that was usually fixed and wouldn't weaken over time.

The Amish also used this Method

It is believed to have been used regularly only in the reverse (Square Pegs into Round holds) by many of the original Settlers for the same reasons. As long as the wood being pounded is Softer than the wood you are connecting it would work better than Nails.

Just saying.

Sorry I was a wood workers Son and he used to love hearing that phrase so he could show people that it wasn't true.

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 6/5/2008 2:31:58 PM >

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 2:54:24 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

Basically, I just was not into being a Bottom to the things she wanted to do to me!!!   Geeeshh.. Really is that simple.     Ok, so I explained a few things, I thought would enlighten her.    That's why I explained what I did, to enlighten her.   She was fixated upon this notion or idea about doing certain things to me! 


If you had stuck to the "I'm not a bottom, I'm not a masochist, I'm not (whatever)" it would have made more sense.  What doesn't make sense is the whole rationale of "I'm a dom, I don't want you to do things to me."  Why go into the whole dominance/submission thing when it had nothing to do with what she wanted, which was to top you?  I think that's where your whole explanation went off kilter.

Cali


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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 3:33:11 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I've had this conversation with switches before. I just tell them something like this: "I'm pretty much sadist who likes control. Inflicting pain on me only results in one impulse-I will have a strong desire to twist your neck like a chicken I am having for dinner. Any other questions on the matter?"

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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 4:46:19 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I've had this conversation with switches before. I just tell them something like this: "I'm pretty much sadist who likes control. Inflicting pain on me only results in one impulse-I will have a strong desire to twist your neck like a chicken I am having for dinner. Any other questions on the matter?"

It really hurts to laugh. I need to do it more often.


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
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RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 7:04:19 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Every time I think of having to try and explain my kinks to anyone, my stomache knots up and I recall having to sit on the witness stand and stare out at an audience of bemused, snickering, shocked and disgusted people in the courtroom - including the judge, all the while describing what it is that we do.  

Yeah, I don't try to proselytize any longer. 

The only people I feel compelled to explain myself to, are those with whom I am already close to or share mutual interests with.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Trying to Explain yourself to Kinky non-lifestylers - 6/5/2008 8:20:44 PM   
servantleader


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

That doesn't mean they are a switch, especially coming at this from a totally vanilla perspective I'd say it's totally normal for kink sex to be a game you play, and in most games, people take turns.  It's more about the thrill and the exploration than it is "I'm the dom!"

Again, this is why I caution people against trying to "turn" vanillas.  Just because someone may end up fully kinky, does not mean they will be at all compatible to YOU.



I agree.

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Profile   Post #: 59
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