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RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/27/2005 10:38:34 PM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

but isn't all you really want to hear is, "yes, Sir" and, "i'll do that right off, Sir" anyway? how many times do you have an indepth converation with an employer?

Via a company or a relationship, instead of "yes Sir" and "right away sir" I'd rather hear "Sir before I do this, I'd like to see about ________ as a new idea" As the old saying goes, two heads are better than one. A company dose better in most cases when the employees suggest ideas. The same goes in a relationship when a sub offers a suggestion or a question in what I am doing. After all, I enjoy explaining myself and discussing how something could become better. Communication helps a realationship stay together. Then again, many men go deaf after 35 - 40 yrs of marriage which is there explanation as to how they maded it to there 50 and 60 yr aniverseries.

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Post #: 21

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/27/2005 10:48:49 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

but isn't all you really want to hear is, "yes, Sir" and, "i'll do that right off, Sir" anyway? how many times do you have an indepth converation with an employer? and i think that sometimes, as a submissive, i get too smart (*not* smart arsed) for my own good (and yes, i've been to med school--brain surgery ain't all it's cracked up to be), and that i just don't do the things that i know i should were i to not think. it would be so much easier, i think, were i to be not thinking so much. i think i should not post when it's so late at night. i think too much. oh, to be an epsilon....

As a master I want obedience, which does indeed mean when I give an instruction or assign a task I want to hear a Yes Sir. But, if all I wanted was a servant who carried out tasks for me it would be far easier to just hire a PA and be done with it. If all I wanted was sex, there are plenty of women who would be happy to provide me that, no strings attached, including kinky sex, threesomes, etc. So yes, I do want those indepth conversations. The one slave who has meant the most to me was the one I regularly discussed Nietzsche with... on equal terms. She was constantly introducing me to new poetry and music I'd never heard of. She was artistic and creative in ways I had never thought of. She presented me with new ideas, new concepts and new ways of looking at things. She also had an IQ higher than mine. I loved her for it, treasured her for it and enjoyed every day we had together. If I am fortunate to find that again, I'll be a lucky man indeed.

And before you ask, she died 5 years ago.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 22

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/27/2005 10:56:46 PM

CitizenCane

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First, let me say this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I do note, however, that it's not uncommon for people, in or out of this lifestyle, to significantly overestimate their own intelligence- as well as their beauty, charm, various skills and pretty much anything else you can think of (well, okay, nobody seems to overestimate their own weight...).

Cane

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 23

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/27/2005 11:09:25 PM

Padriag

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You're right about that... and it occurs to me sitting here thinking about it that perhaps part of the problem the OP observed were cases of dom's over-estimating their own intelligence, then getting exactly what they asked for, and not being able to cope with it. I wonder how many dominants who seek an "intelligent sub" have ever considered how they will react if said submissive turns out to be smarter than them?

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 24

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 3:02:29 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
Not sure what you mean by emotional intelligence. I can say, as I have said elsehwere, that despite being an athiest myself, not a spiritual person, who has no use for religion in any form... I tend to attract and be attracted to spiritual women. If you've ever watched Dharma and Greg... I'm Greg, most of the women in my life have been Dharma's. That simple fact never ceases to both amaze, confound and amuse me. I do find that most of those women tend to be very in touch with their emotions, one in particular helped me with some issues of my own. I have also learned that they generally see the world very differently from me, and that different perspective can be refreshing and enlightening.

Didn't Aristophanes famously expound on this very subject at a certain banquet?

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 25

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 3:38:51 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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Is quite simple....

I'm a clever fella and though M/s is the only foundation for my relationships, owning my girl is owning ALL she is - much more than just her submissive/slave qualities. I also like relaxing as equal adults; to share a mature conversation; to have a second opinion or a source of advice etc.

I don't actually want a rocket scientist - just a sub with the confidence and ability to express herself and still know when to be quiet.

Focus.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 26

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 4:08:38 AM

Wildfleurs

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Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought?

For some reason free thought and decision making authority seem to always get confused. My owner likes hearing my viewpoints (especially in political discussions - and enjoys fairly vigorous political discussions). But when it comes to actually making decisions that doesn't mean he wants to hear me go on and on about the decisions he makes.

I will say though, I don't consider myself any great genius (no Mensa card, though I do have degrees from ivys) but I did find when I was single that there were quite a few dominants that talked a good game about desiring intelligence and strength, but when it came down to it were actually intimidated by it. The solution for me was simply finding someone that overall is more intelligent than me.

C~

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"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 27

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 6:03:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Honestly it sounds like a dom who is just reading off the script of Domliness and not really thinking through.

Reality dictates that a great majority of people will be of about average intelligence. A chunk of people will be really stupid and a chunk of people will be really smart.

I am an elitist in that I need to be in relationships and close to the really smart people. That eliminates a great majority of people right there. I accept it for what it is.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 28

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 6:32:48 AM

Sartoris32801

Posts: 172
Joined: 7/19/2005
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Top Ten Reasons:

So you can;

(1) Converse once the sex is over and the heads hit the pillows.
(2) Able to mingle socially on your own at a party and not cling to who brought you.
(3) Have outside interests i.e. employment, passion, hobby.
(4) Negotiate with a repair man, auto mechanic, landscape etc.
(5) Understand that just because you have checks left in the account, you may not have money in the account.
(6) Be able to read a book, so we can watch the ballgame in peace
(7) Able to answer a question without “ I don’t know what do you want to do”
(8) Know the importance of hitting the cut off man, and appreciate the absolute perfection that is, 90 feet to first base
(9) Know the difference between casual, business, and formal attire and when each is appropriate
(10)Reconcile a bank statement

Sartoris

_____________________________

Oh, the shark, babe, has such teeth, dear
And it shows them pearly white
Just a jackknife has old MacHeath, babe
And he keeps it … ah … out of sight.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 29

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 6:49:48 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

First, let me say this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I do note, however, that it's not uncommon for people, in or out of this lifestyle, to significantly overestimate their own intelligence- as well as their beauty, charm, various skills and pretty much anything else you can think of (well, okay, nobody seems to overestimate their own weight...).

Cane

If I could refine that a bit - it seems to me not that people in general overestimate their virtues, but rather that those lower on the scale tend to overestimate when ranking themselves, and those who truly are endowed with virtues tend to deprecate and "self-check."

There was a study published in the "Journal of Personality and Social Psychology" (Dec 2000) by Kruger and Dunning. They found the people who scored lowest in a series of tests (logic, humor, grammar) belived they had scored much higher, while those who scored in the highest percentiles underestimated their performance grossly.

I don't know that this is an absolute, or carries to every self-estimate, but it dovetails with my anecdotal experience. Truly competent people are always engaged in self-checking - dolts are convinced of their superiority.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 30

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 7:04:42 AM

Faramir

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Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

I'm sorry you've been having such cruddy luck with doms, but I wonder if this isn't a bit of a personals-ad paradox. The really intelligent folks I've met might bill themselves as "clever" or "witty" or "articulate" when pressed, yet they rarely call themselves out as "intelligent." Likewise, everyone I've ever considered to be intellectually vacant believed themselves to be devastatingly brilliant. And if ego and stupidity don't make the ugliest combo under the sun, what on earth does?

How many times have we read something like this : "um... i'd liek 2 meet anyone intelligant who isnt into drama and can b themselves."? *shudders*

Nonetheless.... maybe being more specific about what *you* want from *him*, girl4u2, will yield some better results. As a female sub, you've got a virtual buffet of male doms to choose from. You don't have to search submissively, and what matters most (for now, anyway) is that you find what you're looking for, not the other way around.

Bravo.

I think you are righ that the issue here is not "doms" but the OP's individual experience with a dom or doms. It's ridiculous to lump "doms" or "subs" into a homogenous lump.

I will disagree with you on the "buffet of doms to choose from" thought. A buffet with 53 steaming trays of crap, and one each of steak and chicken really isn't much of a buffet.

(in reply to empresschaos)

Post #: 31

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 7:05:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Sort of goes along with the irony of "I thought I knew everything but eventually realized I was wise enough to know I didn't know anything."

Which leads me to ask, when can we ever say we actually KNOW something without being chided for it?

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 32

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 7:27:41 AM

Prunesquallor

Posts: 181
Joined: 10/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

i respectfully ask the following questions:

1. What is meant when anyone says they want intelligence in their partner? Do they mean "above-average intelligence"? Educational or career success?

As an online owner of two highly-intelligent slaves, I would say that what I seek is definitely above-average intelligence, which has nothing at all to do with educational or career success, although sometimes there is a correlation.

quote:

2. Does anyone recognise "emotional intelligence" and if so, do you think it can exist apart from above-average IQ?

This is a quality that can be found especially in women, I feel. I have found it in people whose IQ has been clearly lower than average

quote:

3. What of people of normal intelligence? Are they attractive to you?

They can be, yes. Intelligence is a quality like any other - high intelligence makes a woman more attractive to me, but it is not indispensible.

quote:

4. Is there a place for a person with below-average intelligence in BDSM?

I would hope there is a place for anybody.

I acquired my first slave at a time when I wasn't really looking. I was introduced to her and within two sentences realised that I was dealing with a Mind, and was consequently instantly attracted to her. Since then I have always valued our conversations, her input, and her wonderfully oblique way of setting me straight if I have gone wrong. :) (Actually, thinking about it, the relationship between a sub and their Dom can have elements of the relationship between Jeeves and Wooster.)

Yes, what I want to hear is 'Yes, Master' and 'No, Master', but I also want those long conversations I have with my slaves about all kinds of things, those observations they bring, their view of the world and the input they can bring to the subtleties of family dynamics.

These things are not incompatible with the utter submission they give me.

< Message edited by Prunesquallor -- 10/28/2005 7:38:27 AM >

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 33

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 8:06:43 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Which leads me to ask, when can we ever say we actually KNOW something without being chided for it?

That is a really good question. I'm thinking right now of my two graduate lit professors last semester - both emminently learned ladies who taught with quiet authority. I think there was a tacit consent on both sides - everyone involved knew they knew their business, and perhaps one of the hallmarks of that quiet competence was their outward focus. Nothing self-referential, no posturing or protestation - they were both at a point where they were focused on us, picking our brains.

Maybe when we are there, and could speak of what we know - we have no need to do so?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 34

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 8:19:35 AM

OscarHargraves

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I have to go with what Obis said. I also agree with Iron Bear to most extents, and others. Why would any intelligent Dom (or Master) want a doormat? We don't mean above average intelligence (like brain surgeon), but we DO like a woman who can cope with her life and handle herself. There's no challenge in conquering a doormat or training a dog. The sense of fulfillment and success comes when you find that an intelligent woman is willing to kneel at your feet because SHE wants to be there.

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RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 8:29:10 AM

girl4you2

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.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 11/14/2005 1:12:21 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 9:42:35 AM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2
i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought?

You say "Masters" as if they are a monolithic bunch of people who have anythign like a group opinion or belief system. They don't. To ask why "Masters" do something is like asking why "blonds" do something.

As for myself I do value intelligence - but intelligence subject to obedience. That has sometimes led peopel to accuse me of not wanting intelligence in my property because they are used to using their theoretical intelligence as an excuse for disobedience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
First, let me say this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I do note, however, that it's not uncommon for people, in or out of this lifestyle, to significantly overestimate their own intelligence- as well as their beauty, charm, various skills and pretty much anything else you can think of (well, okay, nobody seems to overestimate their own weight...).

Yeah, it's a pretty amusing trait. To hear tell every single sub out there is "intelligent, feisty and dominant at work" not to mentiont he peopel who are supposedly "empathic and really good at reading people". Of course doms fall into many of the same traps too.

Apparently no one is actually near "average".

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 37

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 10:34:58 AM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

quote:

As for myself I do value intelligence - but intelligence subject to obedience. That has sometimes led peopel to accuse me of not wanting intelligence in my property because they are used to using their theoretical intelligence as an excuse for disobedience.

Soulhuntre: that sounds harsh, but understandable. Theoretical intelligence as an excuse for disobedience could def be brattiness and unacceptable if she will not take direction and obey.

But, some of the smartest subs are intelligent and submissive. For me, my obedience is primary, and my so-called high IQ is secondary to the dynamic. One big reason to need an "intelligent" master: for i don't have to think ;)

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

Post #: 38

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 11:21:06 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Which leads me to ask, when can we ever say we actually KNOW something without being chided for it?

When it's not just an opinion - and most "facts" are actually just opinions.

Lots of things make more sense if you just limit yourself to being right for you, and not also for the whole world. What you know you know only for yourself.

You know you are trapped in subjectivity in most things. You would seem to want a free pass from subjectivity to objectivity but few people are granted that kind of "from the particular to the general" kind of lionizing of their opinions unless their names are Siddharta or Jesus.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: why do Masters say they want intelligent subs? - 10/28/2005 11:22:34 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds.

I think it depends on the Dom/Master. Some of them want mindless girls who will do whatever they want. I think that would get boring after awhile.

Many want an intelligent woman who knows her place, isn't bratty, demanding, and wants to please, etc. You can be those things and still be an intelligent woman.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 40

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