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i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought?

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ORIGINAL: Faramir

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ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

First, let me say this isn't directed at anyone in particular. I do note, however, that it's not uncommon for people, in or out of this lifestyle, to significantly overestimate their own intelligence- as well as their beauty, charm, various skills and pretty much anything else you can think of (well, okay, nobody seems to overestimate their own weight...).


Cane

If I could refine that a bit - it seems to me not that people in general overestimate their virtues, but rather that those lower on the scale tend to overestimate when ranking themselves, and those who truly are endowed with virtues tend to deprecate and "self-check."

There was a study published in the "Journal of Personality and Social Psychology" (Dec 2000) by Kruger and Dunning. They found the people who scored lowest in a series of tests (logic, humor, grammar) belived they had scored much higher, while those who scored in the highest percentiles underestimated their performance grossly.

I don't know that this is an absolute, or carries to every self-estimate, but it dovetails with my anecdotal experience. Truly competent people are always engaged in self-checking - dolts are convinced of their superiority.

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Not reading the entire thread, just throwing in my two cents here.

Doms want someone who can challenge them. Just because you are intelligent does not mean you will revolt. You will enhance your dom. If you're a doormat you're going to make your dom look bad in some situations...causing him or her embarassement.

Which would you rather have? Of course some people do like doormats, they are so easily abused.
Some are just out to abuse.

A good dom always's wants to know what is going on in your head. That way they can delve deeper within. The play becomes much more intense when you know more about a person.

sub4hire

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ORIGINAL: OrlandoMars

I think you will find that Doms fall into two categories on this issue: those who really do encourage intelligent thought and those who play lip service to the concept. The former understand that subs are (ghasp) human to and have a right to their own feelings. They also understand that the sweetest fruit is the one that falls from the tree under its own volition. In other words, it is far more enticing to have someone give you your submission who fully understands what that means and why they want to do that. The "Doms" who play lip service to it merely think they want intelligence but the truth is, that they often have a hard time managing their D/s relationships because they really don't value intelligence. I consider it somewhat akin to the subs who are not allowed to talk to other Dominants. While I value loyalty highly, I also value my subs ability to be loyal and to call on me when she feels that she is dealing with a situation that may bring her loyalty into doubt.

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i do agree, but what i cannot understand is what intelligence has to do with it? It seems to me more about honor, honesty and trust...and anyone can possess or fail to possess such qualities.

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ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

Did the study you read indicate any reason for the self-checking operations of the bright? Is it cognizance of one's own limitations, or an enhanced awareness of the foolishness of others? Is it specific to particular cultures, or a universal phenomenon?
It seems to me that modesty, in one form or another, was once considered an important virtue in most of the major world cultures, but it is not publicly valued now. Self-advertisement seems to be the road to success- which, if this theory is correct, could explain much of the mediocrity of public figures.

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ORIGINAL: girl4you2

i don't understand this at all. what they want and what they then expect seem to be at odds. why ask for a woman with a brain, but then not want to hear anything of free thought?

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ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
i respectfully ask the following questions:

1. What is meant when anyone says they want intelligence in their partner? Do they mean "above-average intelligence"? Educational or career success?

2. Does anyone recognise "emotional intelligence" and if so, do you think it can exist apart from above-average IQ?

3. What of people of normal intelligence? Are they attractive to you?

4. Is there a place for a person with below-average intelligence in BDSM?

Just curious...to me "intelligence" is not a fixed term, communicating the same ideas to us all at once.

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ORIGINAL: girl4you2
it would be so much easier, i think, were i to be not thinking so much.

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ORIGINAL: Faramir

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ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

Did the study you read indicate any reason for the self-checking operations of the bright? Is it cognizance of one's own limitations, or an enhanced awareness of the foolishness of others? Is it specific to particular cultures, or a universal phenomenon?
It seems to me that modesty, in one form or another, was once considered an important virtue in most of the major world cultures, but it is not publicly valued now. Self-advertisement seems to be the road to success- which, if this theory is correct, could explain much of the mediocrity of public figures.

Strict-

1) The researchers identified two factors at work in the widely differing self-assesments. They felt the same low skillset that led to low scores hinders self-assesment: the incompetent are not very competent at self-assesment. At the same time, the competent engage in what Dunning calls the "false consensus effect." Those who scored in the highest percentiles assumed that others where like them - they assumed their performance was mean performance. Once those same individuals graded a cross-section of peer's tests, they re-assessed themselves higher. Presented with feedback for a self-assesment, the competent self-assesed correctly (the incompetent did not).

2) Yes this appears to vary by culture. I read about a meta-study from Steve Heine, Univ of BC, that shows self-inflation of worth to be a more pervasive Western phenomen. This may be tied to a cultural perception of "succes." Heine found that American and Canadian medical students do better when they are encouraged - when they think they are succesful or will be succesful, they tend to perform better. When they think of themselves as "failures" they perform more poorly. Japanese, Korean and Chinese students worked harder and were more succesful when they had "failed." The results of the study were a symmetrical "X" across the East-West divide.

While I agree that modesty is not a virtue much present in our present culture, I'm not sure if I would put any of this to modesty though. Modesty seems to me to be a moral virtue, seperate from this skillset suite that leads to competence or incompetence, (which includes competence and self-assesment).

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Let me suggest a third category- Doms who don't think intelligence is all it's cracked up to be

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ORIGINAL: OrlandoMars

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Let me suggest a third category- Doms who don't think intelligence is all it's cracked up to be

True, but the originally question implied Doms that specifically requested intelligence. I would say the thrid category Doms woul dnever both even mentioning it.

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ORIGINAL: Sartoris32801

Top Ten Reasons:


So you can;

(1) Converse once the sex is over and the heads hit the pillows.
(2) Able to mingle socially on your own at a party and not cling to who brought you.
(3) Have outside interests i.e. employment, passion, hobby.
(4) Negotiate with a repair man, auto mechanic, landscape etc.
(5) Understand that just because you have checks left in the account, you may not have money in the account.
(6) Be able to read a book, so we can watch the ballgame in peace
(7) Able to answer a question without “ I don’t know what do you want to do”
(8) Know the importance of hitting the cut off man, and appreciate the absolute perfection that is, 90 feet to first base
(9) Know the difference between casual, business, and formal attire and when each is appropriate
(10)Reconcile a bank statement

Sartoris

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(6) Be able to read a book, so we can watch the ballgame in peace