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Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:10:47 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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This is a question that many of you have had to face in your day to day lives, and one I used to face as a kinky dominant man (though not for a good lot of years, until recently). How to handle what in poker we would call your 'table image' or more simply, how the general public perceives you. In some locales being seen as 'perverted' is a social faux pas, and if you've a business need in that locale, you might find things quite difficult. There are of course familial concerns, and various other reasons one might choose to keep their lifestyle under wraps, not the least of which might simply be that you're generally a private person.

Personally I overcame this fear a long time ago. I'm nearly 40 now and haven't hidden (though neither broadcast) my lifestyle for some 15 years-even explaining to my Father, a somewhat conservative man in several ways, that I preferred submission from my partner within the context of a relationship. He didn't dig the idea, but still loved me till he passed away.

Lately I've been confronted with this problem all over again, although only indirectly.

I recently married a woman who submitted to me several years ago, from afar. She's British but moved to the States a few months ago to be with me. Things are going quite well, generally. There is however an issue that's cropped up, or perhaps better said, a kink in our kink. She is a very private person where her sexuality and lifestyle are concerned. She fears exposure, and is in an industry where a worst case scenario re: being outed might very well become more than a little bit troublesome. It's a lot of ifs ands and buts - and several unlikely events would have to take place consecutively for it to become a relevancy in her career, but as we like to say to one another; APE-G (anything's possible, even god).

Naturally I desire to soothe her fears, but have been at a loss as to how to proceed. For the time being I'm simply more private than I have been in many years, and am attempting to simply let her find confidence in exposing herself at her own pace, and in her own time. You know, all that warm-snuzzly supportive stuff.

There is an ugly core to this issue however. She feels (and I must say she's not wrong in all circumstances, since I've seen it happen a couple of times myself, although only with lifestylers who bring their own expectations to the interaction) that being seen as a submissive means other people's notion of her is automatically degraded to one extent or another. That people will think her weak willed (which she isn't--very strong woman indeed!), unintelligent (another real laugher since she's intensely bright!), or just generally passive. All qualities that would be counterproductive in her job, and in her life.

Ultimately, she has not yet (she's only 28 recently) come to grips with who she really is at core, and perhaps isn't precisely sure of who that person is, which would make coming to grips with whatever reality is created therein, impossible.

What I'd like to know from others who've experienced this, is how you've meshed the maintenance of your public persona and had that jive well with your private life. Or better, if you've been in a relationship with someone who was at odds with themselves over this issue, how did you support them, and what were the results?

All responses are appreciated.

Vulgar Intellects (Male half)
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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:23:59 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

Ultimately, she has not yet (she's only 28 recently) come to grips with who she really is at core,

#1: Posting that in a public forum about your new wife strikes me as incredibly lame.

#2: Based on what you've written, I'm not even convinced that is true.  She might just want to avoid behind-the-back snickering on the job.  How would you feel if she told your co-workers about the night you couldn't perform, and how frustrated it made her -- and people didn't deal with you as seriously in the boardroom because of it?

#3: It doesn't mean you're not true to yourself if you practice a little exercise called "shutting the fuck up" and keeping private things private.  If it helps, think of it as "throat kegels" because it will improve your sex life.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:24:37 AM   
mistoferin


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You've posted this on three different boards. That is not allowable here.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:39:31 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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My apologies.

My intention was to gather disparate points of view, not to spam.

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:43:57 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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1. I appreciate your concern for my wife. But since she is all but anonymous, I can't see how the posting is damaging to her in any way. And in fact she's aware of the post, and doesn't mind.
2. She is evolving, and this is her first relationship where D/s (as opposed to BDSM play) is a core component.
3. Terse response on your part aside, the issue transcends simply being private. She lives in fear of discovery, and this fear is often debilitating in many ways.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:47:17 AM   
christine1


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OP, i'm not sure what the problem is.  sounds like she needs some time to get comfy in her kinky skin so to speak.  give her that time, nothing will come of it if you are rushing her to do this. 

there are probably millions of people that have to mesh their kinks and their public personas every day.  i think you're making too big a deal out of it.  just relax and let her come to terms in her own way and guide her when she asks for it concerning this...she'll figure it out.

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 7:53:45 AM   
xxblushesxx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

1. I appreciate your concern for my wife. But since she is all but anonymous, I can't see how the posting is damaging to her in any way.

She lives in fear of discovery, and this fear is often debilitating in many ways.


Considering that there is a front view pic of your face, some extremely racy pics of her, and a picture of your first and last name on what I assume is her bum, I'd say she's not so anonymous after all; and I'd be very concerned, were I her, that what you are doing here *is* actually outing her.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:04:06 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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Again I appreciate your concern for my wife's welfare; she's aware of the post, has no problem with it, and while my name is clear, as is my face, I live in a city with millions and millions--there are literally thousands of people with my precise name, and her face remains unseen. It would require someone who was stalking her (or us) to figure it out, and I know how to deal with that type of person.

Should anyone have advise on the situation at hand, ie how you've either overcome fear of exposure, or helped someone else to, please do share.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:05:19 AM   
RedMagic1


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You could search any of my posts -- or christine1's posts, or that of most people here -- and you won't find an example of me talking down about the person I love.  I have talked about mistakes *I* have made, so hopefully other people can learn from them.  And, believe it or not, none of the women I have known in my life were perfect.

She minds something -- and it is something you are blind to, or you wouldn't be posting.

Your post has a "I have completed my personal development and am now the guru on top of the hill, while she is still the disciple down below" feel to it.  This is a dangerous way of thinking, because it places the responsibility on her to change, instead of on you.  You can only control what you do, and the warm nuzzlies don't seem to be enough.

How about: "Honey, I take this very seriously, and I think maybe I was considering it too much 'your problem' instead of something for both of us.  I want you to know that I will do everything I can to protect our personal lives and keep your professional reputation safe.  What are things you would like me to change about me, so you feel safer?"

This sounds like your own immaturity just as much as "hers."


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:10:03 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects
Should anyone have advise on the situation at hand, ie how you've either overcome fear of exposure,

And, I have to add, that is exactly what blushes just gave you, and you stiff-armed her.  Your response there is what you have to fix.  Stop being all DomlyDom "logical-I-have-to-be-right" and start using empathy and common sense.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:10:26 AM   
Dnomyar


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Im going with blushes here. This post is BS. The pics don't jive with what your trying to say. Perhaps a little narcissum is going on here.

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:11:25 AM   
kittinSol


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(Superficial comment: she's a bomb .)

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:13:32 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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I am at peace with who I am esp. regarding the topic at hand, and in fact, she is not yet. Pointing it out makes it no more or less true. Asking for advice from people that have been through similar situations seems prudent, considering I've never had a submissive who was gun shy in the way my wife is. You may also notice that the Op states clearly that for the time being, without a plan I'm confident will be helpful, my tact has been to simply remain patient and let her find her sense of self regarding the above.

It's also true that in our partnership, I am the leader, or guru if you prefer--although THAT seems a patronizing word--and I consider it my end to assist her where needed. In situations where I don't have enough experience to be sure I'm doing the right thing, I research the topic first (as I'm doing in these posts, although they don't seem to be getting far), formulate a plan of action, and then execute it.

Last time: Anyone experience this progression themselves and have some advice on it, anecdotal or otherwise?

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:19:51 AM   
DiurnalVampire


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Thre is no fear of discovery. Just keep your private life private. It is perfectly normal for a vanilla wife to be somewhat submissive to her husband, and him alone. If someone makes a comment, she can fall back on that. However, the extend of what goes on privately does not ever have to be shared.
My Angel could suffer a major backlash if people found out that he is an AB. Simple solution, we just dont tell anyone. I am not willing to risk his personal life and his social life aside from me by letting it out. Fox is not quite as concerned with being outted, but we dont plan on waving a flag and saying Hey, come here, guess what I'm into with him either.
Let people assume what they want, if she appears domestically submissive, she can explai she was raised that way, and thats how she thinks a home should be run. No one needs to know anything about BDSM being involved, and they certainly wont hold being a devoted and doting wife against her in the business world.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:23:23 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects
It would require someone who was stalking her (or us) to figure it out, and I know how to deal with that type of person.

Hm.  I've been in the presence of violent death.  Have you?  I kinda doubt it, because I've never met anyone who's really been there who has any need to advertise their machoness like this.  It's not something to be proud of.  Plus -- there is always something that can go wrong in a physical (or court-of-law) confrontation.  It is better just to avoid that kind of stuff altogether.

If you decide to be more realistic, and less peacock-strutty, she will have more confidence in your ability to protect her.

It keeps on getting back to you, your own maturity... and your own lack of self-awareness.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:26:24 AM   
christine1


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OP, i thought i had a reasonable (non snarky) answer and i think my reply is the only one you have seemed to ignore.  maybe i didn't answer your question, (and maybe you aren't really looking for help here), but i thought i was being helpful.  i just don't see that you can make someone figure this kind of thing out, just help them where you can while they do it on their own.

over and out. 

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:27:11 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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quote:

Thre is no fear of discovery. Just keep your private life private


(Just figured out the quote function :)

Ordinarily I would say this is a perfect plan. No need to do more--however these circumstances are exceptional in my experience in that despite keeping our privacy at a level that she feels [tells me] comfortable with, she nevertheless has a debilitating fear of discovery. Without going into the why's and wherefores of the reason(s) she feels this way, it is my intention (with her knowledge) that she, at a minimum not feel debilitated by her fear, or better, release entirely said fear.

As such I'm wondering how others have dealt with the issue.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

< Message edited by VulgarIntellects -- 6/5/2008 8:28:47 AM >

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:29:17 AM   
Lynnxz


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O.o If she doesn't want to be outted, keep your mouth shut about the details of your relation ship. People can know that you are dating/married, they don't need to know what goes on in the bedroom, or that she calls you master, or that your name is tattooed on her ass.

Who exactly are you planning to tell, anyway?


_____________________________

HBIC



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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:31:21 AM   
VulgarIntellects


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quote:

i think my reply is the only one you have seemed to ignore.


I read it, and am happy to have a response without vitriol :) Thanks

I don't really think it's the most suitable course of action for us however, because of the debilitating fear issue discussed earlier.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:35:25 AM   
christine1


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well i'm not sure how you can force someone out of a fear they have.  it takes time, and in my experience it has to be the person with the fear that figures it out in the end.   of course with support from a master/loved one/ etc.

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
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