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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:37:08 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

I read it, and am happy to have a response without vitriol :) Thanks


Definition of vitriol: "language expressing bitterness and hatred" 

If you somehow found bitterness or hatred in what I, and others expressed, than you have more issues than the fact that your wife (the woman you promised to protect) does not want to be outed. 
You need to think less about what your desires are, and more about what is best for your family.
And yes, I am in a relationship with a person to whom it would be quite damaging were they outed.
I do not use His name here, nor do I have a pic up of Him.
It's because I respect His wishes, and because it is His income that allows us to live in the lifestyle to which I have become accustomed...

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:54:08 AM   
VulgarIntellects


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You need to think less about what your desires are, and more about what is best for your family.


I don't expect you to take me at my word, but this isn't about my desires. Instead it's about what I consider to be a necessary part of her growth as a person. You and many others may disagree that fears so intense that they become debilitating are best left alone, but I clearly don't. And as the individual in large part responsible for my girl's growth, it's a decision that I get to make, not anyone else.

I'm not too interested in any more moralizing, so from this point onwards (unless I should change my mind lol) I'm just going to respond to those people who have experienced the progression I'm speaking of, and have some ideas re: the best ways to approach it.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:55:06 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I'm just wondering who all you plan to out her to... Is there a billboard in the near future?

_____________________________

HBIC



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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:57:42 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Really?  I think she is fine with who she is.  Private because she is comfortable in that way.  You seem to be the one who is not comfortable with her being true to herself.  She is more than a sub, more than your sub, more than your wife.  She was a person before all that.  Or do you assume that somehow that is less enlightened?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

I am at peace with who I am esp. regarding the topic at hand, and in fact, she is not yet. .

(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:57:54 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 8:58:47 AM   
virgini970


Posts: 142
Joined: 5/28/2008
Status: offline 		i am in to bdsm and my old man is not at all but i have all was been the kind that says what i want that's why we get along he lets me be me and you need to let her be her self she will come around just like you said all you can do is be there for her  as she needs you let her come to you, you have done this for a long time she is new think back when you frist got in to this did you just tell every one and things do change i now have a sud and no he did not unstand it but we talked about it it still come back to he let me be me as i do him we don't even have sex any more but we are here for each other i am out and in the open but my sub dose not want to be and out of respect for him i keep it that way it's all about trust wish you the best of luck

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RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:00:19 AM   
VulgarIntellects


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'm just wondering who all you plan to out her to... Is there a billboard in the near future?


It's just occurred to me that the title I put up for this thread might be misleading. It's not my intention to out her as such. No there wont be any billboards, and no I don't have anyone imparticular in mind as far as outing her goes. The title of the thread is meant to be slightly provocative so that people would have a look at it.

My primary desire is for her to overcome her fear, which often stops her in her tracks.

Just an FYI

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:00:49 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		DOH ... quit splashing ting racy photos of your wife regardless of face shots or not all over the net and allow her the privacy she wants/needs  ... then just maybe her confidence would improve!!!   Even the main photo ....  though nothing racy about it.....could lead to someone opening  the album to see the rest of the photos......went you out and about can you not pick out some one one you know when they are standing or sitting sideways?  I work in a large automotive factory and recently returnied to a  departments after 5 years away,  I can still identify  many people I have not seen in 5 thru 9  years  from their side profile alone without them having to turn and face me even though we  are now in our  40's/or early 50's  and the aging effects is very apparent now with sagging jowl lines and deepened facial lines, greying hair/balding etc    as a journalist your wife is in the public eye most of the time and young enough that she is not changing much with age  the side view in the main profile is enough for people who know have met  her even briefly to recognize her  and if they decide to check the profile as a result of the main photo....they will be getting quite a eyeful of her

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Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:01:00 AM   
Strongmindbody


Posts: 264
Joined: 5/15/2008
Status: offline 		Years ago, my ex wife was intensely fearful of discovery when some "compromising" pictures of her at a party were circulated on the internet. She feared that someone would recognize her from our vanilla life and tell friends/family. Unlikely, but anything is possible as you said. It was not a good time for her, and our lives became very private. Your description of your wife (bright, capable, submissive only in the context of the relationship) is similar to my ex. I feel for her.

So, my experience says simply: if your need to have a public presence in the D/s community is more important than her fear of exposure, then you can expect your relationship to suffer, potentially long term since any attempt by you to push can lead to harbored resentment that just might come back to bite you in the ass later. That's just human nature even when newlyweds have the best of intentions. The effort you put into your post implies this is a big deal to her. Treat her concerns with respect - part of your role as dom is to make her feel protected and safe in the context of indulging "unsafe" D/s behaviors. Her comfort level may very well improve over time (hey she's adapting to a new marriage, a new country, a new job, wow), but this isn't the sort of thing that should be forced, IMO.

And, not meaning to be harsh, but I would say that you have little commitment to protecting her privacy. I looked at your profile and even though her face is hidden, yours is certainly not. And you are an attractive couple whose photos will be remembered. So if I can recognize you on the street from this free and open site, then I will most certainly recognize her by inference. Now, you don't care about me seeing you, but what about that one kinky coworker who recognizes you at her office party?

To be clear, for me this had nothing to do with the D/s relationship with my ex - this wasn't a place for her to accept my better judgment or will. This was a gut level real life fear that her relationship with family would be warped, crushed, altered, demeaned. I'm sure her conservative family would have eventually coped with this just fine, but that has nothing to do with the fear. Give it time. As much time as it needs.

Bottom line, if you like to play with others, then do so in more private settings where random "outing" is unlikely. If your social life revolves around other scene folks, try get togethers just with people you already know. And those online face pics...

I'm sure that some will feel that this represents a nifty training opportunity, and perhaps it does. But this sure as hell isn't anything like introducing someone to the cane for the first time. The cane either works for the two of you or it doesn't. But blowing her sense of security? Anyway, we all need different things. Figure out what's important and do it without further reservation.

I know, I know, blah blah blah. I'm verbose this morning.

(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:01:43 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Stops her from doing what? Is she shy when you play at home? Or is she just not a fan of public play? Nothing wrong with being a private person.

_____________________________

HBIC



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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:04:34 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		 you are asking for people that have gone through this and i keep trying to answer you. i'm not saying the that worked for me will work for you, but  i am getting the impression that you only want to hear what you want to hear, but one more try on my part.

i've been there and done this and am currently going through a "fear" situation with my Master.  i've dealt with debilitating fears and overcome them, and  like i said earlier, overcoming them couldnt' be forced on me, i had to overcome them and realize things for myself.  with the help and encouragement of loved ones i was able to do this.  being able to talk about my fears, even though i realized they weren't completely reasonable and still feel loved and accepted made the difference, and of course patience as well.

there isn't one way to do this, it is and will be different for everyone i would think...you asked for input and i'm trying to give it from my experience.

i hope the best for your sub, i know what a struggle debilitaing fears can be.   as for you, i think you need to be patient and roll with her on this. 



< Message edited by christine1 -- 6/5/2008 9:15:26 AM >

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to VulgarIntellects)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:04:35 AM   
fungasm


Posts: 321
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

She feels  ...  that being seen as a submissive means other people's notion of her is automatically degraded to one extent or another. That people will think her weak willed (which she isn't--very strong woman indeed!), unintelligent (another real laugher since she's intensely bright!), or just generally passive.


Rather than give this poor man a ration about not knowing where to post, how to post or weighing in on the actual anonymity of posting on a public board- does anyone have a real answer?   Has anyone discovered that after someone learns that they are a sub that they treat them differently?

I have an adult website with a bdsm word in the title, so people who know that about me without knowing anything else about me assume I'm a Domme.  I don't think this gets me more or less respect from folks who aren't into such things, I think I'm just considered peculiar.

Ali

**My hijack is that if I'm meeting someone outside a kink-friendly context, I don't think they need to know that much about me or my sex life.  When asked "what do you do?" by a stranger I say "I'm a web builder.  When I'm talking to someone about building their site, I don't even mention my "other" site unless they mention wanting an adult construction or they came to me from an "adult" source.   

_____________________________

"Science is a lot like sex. Sometimes something useful comes of it, but that's not the reason we're doing it." (Richard Feynman)

Blog: http://antidomme.sensualwriter.com

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:13:03 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Christy your pro gun. Shoot this post.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:13:29 AM   
Isabelah


Posts: 25
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline 		Okay I read most of everyones posting and even the OPs...what I find in the OPs posting and responses is lack of clear education. If you truly seek to help your sub/slave in dealing with exposure- the one way to do that is through communications with her. One to one communications. Secondly, if she tells you what she is okay with and what she is not okay with then come up with a behavior modification plan that can help her deal with her fear.

I cannot assume what she is okay with and what she is not. You are the only one speaking for her. But I do know that you MUST be careful when dealing with indivduals private and public selves. We all have our comfort zones.  You cannot force someone to be less afraid of something only help them take a look at the behavior and then help them modify it. If they are resistant in doing that- then you have to back off.

Yes, I know the saying that one has to FACE their FEAR. But that can only be done when the person is ready to do so...not you making them. Forcing someone to face a fear only retraumatizes them to fear something else- YOU.


< Message edited by Isabelah -- 6/5/2008 9:15:20 AM >

(in reply to fungasm)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:14:59 AM   
VulgarIntellects


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

if your need to have a public presence in the D/s community is more important than her fear of exposure


Thanks for the well thought out and articulate response. I don't give much of a hoot for the public scene as it were. I've never been involved with it (to date) and am not concerned about any need I have to "be" public. My concern is that my girl's fear of discovery often stops her in her tracks where other activities are concerned. Neither of us (obviously a number of you feel it's a mistake) feel threatened by the pictures we've posted in our profile. Along this line, I'll just add that we live in a city with over 10 million people in it, and neither one of us is concerned (again perhaps mistakenly) that someone will randomly identify me, and therein, her. We've considered that perhaps a stalker (someone absolutely determined) to find us would be able to, and have considered the best ways to deal with that issue (I've had to deal with it a couple of times with other people already, so for me it's not new).

For the fellow going on about my machismo: You might want to check yourself, I never made a threatening comment, and in fact my way of dealing with stalkers isn't violent (which would be incredibly dumb). Instead I note that stalkers are by their very nature cowards, and once confronted directly (not just on a computer), desist. Once forced from the shadows, stalkers tend to run for cover, not to return--again this is strictly in my experience.

Regarding the force aspect which you've mentioned. It seems good advice to me, and to date I have not forced her in any way, although what I have done is to tell her how comfortable I feel in my own skin, and why--perhaps a subtle form of coercion there. I would never actually force her to become 'public' -- what I'm looking for are devices, techniques, and ideas regarding how others have come to grips with their own identity as submissive - (especially when it's strictly within the context of a relationship, as opposed to a general outlook on life), or from those who have helped others become comfortable with it.

Again thanks for the well thought out, reasoned response.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

(in reply to Strongmindbody)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:16:48 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Christy your pro gun. Shoot this post.


rofl...

seriously, i'm wondering if a rolling pin might be more effective...

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:17:04 AM   
VulgarIntellects


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Stops her from doing what? Is she shy when you play at home? Or is she just not a fan of public play?


She's not shy at home, and strangely (or perhaps not) she's a huge fan of semi-public play. As such she is often in conflict between her desires and her fears.

Vulgar Intellects (male half)

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:18:58 AM   
JillSpade


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline 		Perhaps she feels so comfortable in her own skin that she doesn't need to be "out" for validation. Just another way of looking at it.

I'm a very private person, too, and I wouldn't be airing out my life either.

< Message edited by JillSpade -- 6/5/2008 9:19:53 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:23:42 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VulgarIntellects

Without going into the why's and wherefores of the reason(s) she feels this way, it is my intention (with her knowledge) that she, at a minimum not feel debilitated by her fear, or better, release entirely said fear.

Without whys and wherefores of why she is afraid without cause or with... we cannot help.
Sorry.
I cant give advice on how to make someone more comfortable with something when I dont know the source of the discomfort.


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Outing a submissive - 6/5/2008 9:27:10 AM   
VulgarIntellects


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I cant give advice on how to make someone more comfortable with something when I dont know the source of the discomfort.


Good point.

I'll have to talk this over with her to see how much she feels comfortable divulging.


Vulgar Intellects (male half)

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 40
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