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a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:23:10 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm really not sure how to word this the right way, so please bear with me.  I absolutely do NOT want this to turn into another typical weight thread.

My views are clashing in a big way with those of my Master.  Simply put, he has VERY specific views on weight - his own and other's - and his opinions are bringing up stong feelings in me that, I'm sure, are related to my own issues on the subject.  To pare it down, his belief is that social standing, finding a partner, success, or the way other people see someone is directly related to their weight, and it's the "you can never be too thin" kind of mentality.  For example, we were watching a popular cooking show on TV one day and he commented that if she weren't so heavy (she isn't heavy... maybe a few extra pounds, but NOT fat) her ratings would go up.  It's the same thing with friends who don't currently have a partner and who happen to be even a LITTLE over what he perceives as their ideal weight... their weight must be repelling members of the opposite sex.  He has the same issues with himself.  He sees himself as twenty pounds or so overweight and is so self-conscious about it that he refuses to have full-length mirrors in his house.

I'm twenty pounds overweight.  I'm also comfortable in my own skin and don't cringe every time I look in a mirror or worry what other people might think of me.  It took me a long time to get to that point because I grew up with a parent who was obsessed with weight and it did have a very detrimental effect on my self-esteem, especially growing up and as a young adult - and I wasn't even overweight then.

Personally, I believe that confidence and self-esteem play a MUCH larger role in how a person is perceived than weight does.  I'm not sure I'm saying that the right way to get my point across.  In other words, it isn't only the thin people who find dates and partners or who are successful and happy. 

These differences of opinion are bringing up some very negative feelings in me.  Master doesn't mean to be critical or to make me feel badly, but he will comment on my weight at least once every visit.  Either I've lost a few pounds or gained a pound or two.  (My weight has stayed within five pounds of when I first met him two years ago.)  His comments about other people lead me to wonder what he really thinks of me, and even though he assures me he loves me and would love me no matter what the scale said, I find myself asking why I'm any different than those he talks negatively about.

I'm finding myself resenting and resisting his attempts to gently nudge me into losing weight.  I know he wants me to, even though he doesn't come out and make it an order.  I think it would almost be easier to deal with if it was an order, strange as that may sound.  Could I stand to lose a few pounds?  Sure.  But... I don't want to feel I have to lose weight for him to accept me.  Accept me as I am NOW and not for what my potential might be.  Does that make sense? 

I've talked to him and told him how I feel about this.  He's said to remind him when he starts making comments and he will stop, but that isn't solving the problem, just hiding it, and sooner or later, I'm afraid it will become a HUGE issue for us.  I would rather work it out now than to let it become the elephant in the living room.  As with other subjects he is uncomfortable with, he talks around the issue a lot but doesn't really deal with the topic.  I'm just not sure how to go about solving this.  Any ideas?
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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:34:57 AM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I am overweight from the norm... and don't have an issue with it. The only issues I have on overweight people is when it is unhealthy . I can lose weight if I want to. Its all about control. Can he lose the weight if he chooses to? Can you? Thats more important to me then the fact that someone is heavier then others.

CD

< Message edited by CruelDesires -- 6/7/2008 7:36:08 AM >

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:40:35 AM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		Define the phrase "solving this". Does that mean "How do I get him to change his views entirely about weight?"

I can advise you on how to stop the cycle of this guy making comments about your weight that attack your self esteem but the advice I'd offer doesn't involve changing his attitudes.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:45:51 AM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I'm overweight.  I used to be really overweight, I've lost about 70 pounds in the last year or so,  could lose a few more and am still working toward that end.  There is a difference between needing to lose about 20 pounds and being morbidly obese.  It seems as though he has self esteem issues about his own weight and is projecting that onto you.  Everyone wants to be accepted, desired and loved the way they are, even if there's room for improvement.  Who doesn't have room for improvement one way or the other? 

For me, I have worked too hard to get my self esteem where it is.  I am in a really good place, emotionally, and I would not let anyone mess with that.  Encouragment, even a boot in the rear, to lose weight can be a great thing, but it has to come from a place of acceptance,  not "wow you'd really be hot if you dropped 20 pounds". 

< Message edited by Roselaure -- 6/7/2008 7:46:52 AM >

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:45:59 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		All I can say is thank the Goddess my malesub doesn't think this way, I'd boot him out the door. Its just another bias like racism and sexism. Yes being overweight is unhealthy and sometimes people can help it, sometimes they can't. People scoff at the "can't loose weight" but there are diseases and oh yes, hereditary plays a big part in a persons weight, just like their height.

I think people that sit there and poke fun at how other people look are insecure in their own looks. Its the mentality "If I make this person feel just a bit uncomfortable about themselves then I feel ten times better". If he's commenting on your weight and its bothering you TELL him. Unless its in your contract that he has strict control of your weight then he needs to back off, particularly if you are healthy and happy with yourself.

Whatever you do don't allow him to destroy your self esteem. If you like yourself and are happy do not allow someone else to destroy that, sometimes you can never get it back.

Good luck,
~Lashra



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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:53:56 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		This really doesn't help your problem but this was such a straight line

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

For example, we were watching a popular cooking show on TV one day and he commented that if she weren't so heavy (she isn't heavy... maybe a few extra pounds, but NOT fat) her ratings would go up. 


I would have been tempted to ask "I wonder how she managed to beat out all the twig-thin gals who are begging studio execs every day to give them their own TV show?"

More to the point, I see this as his problem... actually his neurosis.  There isn't much you can really do.

I prefer thin woman; in fact, when I met Libby, I really didn't consider her for a long term relationship.  But as I came to know her, her weight became less and less of a factor.  Now, I couldn't imagine not being with her.  Love does interesting things.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:57:06 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

*snip*
Personally, I believe that confidence and self-esteem play a MUCH larger role in how a person is perceived than weight does.  I'm not sure I'm saying that the right way to get my point across.  In other words, it isn't only the thin people who find dates and partners or who are successful and happy. 


IMO, you are absolutely correct. One way to highlight this is to take people he considers to be within their weight ideal and examine what it is that makes some more successful than others...it generally does come down to the fact that the more successful people are the ones who are comfortable in their own skin, who rely on their own strength and not on the opinions or approval of others.

If that doesn't have some kind of an effect, well, I'd suggest you start considering whether you want to stay in a relationship with someone like this. As Lashra said,  "I think people that sit there and poke fun at how other people look are insecure in their own looks. Its the mentality "If I make this person feel just a bit uncomfortable about themselves then I feel ten times better"."...Do you want to be with someone who has and either cannot or will not change that mentality? Do the positives of the person outweight the negatives? Look at REALISTIC best and worst case scenarios for your relationship long-term...is the potential for the best case enough to outweigh the risk that you will end up with the worst case? Which, realistically, is more likely to happen?

In the end, you can't make him change the way he thinks...you can attempt to influence him and see if he chooses to alter this on his own...and by "alter" I mean do more than give lip service to what he knows you want him to say...as you note, just because he doesn't say it doesn't mean it isn't there and a very real problem nevertheless.

Good luck.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 7:59:30 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		biased minds don't change often...

if i find myself at a cross-roads of how to feel good, in spite of of such people, i generally seperate myself from them as much as possible.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:01:19 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Grrrr I stringly dislike people who believe this way because all too often they just don't see the light of day and remain convinced that this is true.

Truth of the matter is more people are overweight then are target or undertarget weight.

I am overweight and I can tell you that being overweight isn't fun, there were days that I would battle with myself over liking and being comfortable with myself and hating myself for how I thought others precieved me.

I learned something.

there are people out there who will like you for who you and and then there are people who will like you for what you look like. Yeah women often get the short end of the stick on this one but I can tell you all that changed for me was accepting who I am.

It started out by waking up every morning and looking in the mirror and saying "You're a Sexy Bitch" Did it every morning for 4 years. Then I turned it into a part of me I didn't have to say it I just knew I was a sexy bitch.

Then when people who comment on my weight those who can only feel better about themselves by putting others down, when they would comment I would say "Yeah I know, but I got a Big Dick so it makes up for it.... just ask your girlfriend" It got to point that I liked myself so much other people couldn't help but like me too.

I have dated women who some would think are way out of my league, when it comes to that I say this is dating not bowling the only criteria to play is being human what do leagues have to do with it.

I believe the real problem is people who are WITH people like the OP's Master who start to BELIEVE that bullshit. Sure TV has retarded standards but real life doesn't have to emulate them.

I worked for a strip club as a bouncer and it was filled with some of the most stuck up and egotistical women on the planet, Most of them were single or hooked up with some douche bag who "played in a Band" or "hasn't found his groove in life yet" those girls didn't care that the guys were as worthless as Mudflaps on a Boat, They only cared about the image, the ones who were always single would tell me that they were single because guys couldn't or wouldn't approach them.

So in closing Two things.

1) Op you need to sit your Master down and inform him that he is hurting your feelings with his weight issues and if he doesn't care then you have two options remain in your misery and live with it, or realize that 20 pounds no matter how comfortable you are is still not good enough for him and maybe one day he might not be willing to be with a girl who is overweight and just save yourself the heartache.

2) If you believe you are Unattractive, Fat, Plain, Not good enough... Guess what so does the rest of the world, The would precieves the image you put out. Love yourself , I mean TRUELY LOVE YOURSELF and the world will love you too. If you meet a girl and you think she is out of your league just go and talk to her TRY TO BE HER FIREND, but let her know that you like her and see what happens. I have consistently dated women who are "out of my league" just because I already knew I was a sexy bitch they just needed to be informed.

Steel

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:01:37 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Basically, he is carrying a prejudice.  Most prejudices are based in fear.  He might have something in his past that causes him to focus so heavily on weight and how it relates to a person's stature. 

I have been overweight since I was 15, getting up to 226 at only 5'3".  I lost 98 pounds - and found that being thin didn't make me any happier.  Instead I was angry and frustrated that I couldn't lose the last 2 pounds to make it a perfect 100.  I had turned too much of my focus onto the weight, equating it with a magical elixir for joy. 

Possibly the two of you could talk about when he started feeling this way about weight.  Perhaps he was overweight at some point; or someone close to him was and he transferred his disappointment in them to the extra pounds.  For instance, it is easier for children to think something like "that fat man is mean" than to be able to rationalize "that person is treating me unfairly, and that person is also overweight".


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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:06:33 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

Define the phrase "solving this". Does that mean "How do I get him to change his views entirely about weight?"

I can advise you on how to stop the cycle of this guy making comments about your weight that attack your self esteem but the advice I'd offer doesn't involve changing his attitudes.



No, this is not about getting him to change his views.  It is about how we can get to a place where we our individual issues around this subject don't have a negative impact on us as a whole.  It is about how we can best work together so this doesn't damage the relationship.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:12:26 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Responses are coming in faster than I am able to keep up with.  Thank you all for taking the time to give your insights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

This really doesn't help your problem but this was such a straight line

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

For example, we were watching a popular cooking show on TV one day and he commented that if she weren't so heavy (she isn't heavy... maybe a few extra pounds, but NOT fat) her ratings would go up. 


I would have been tempted to ask "I wonder how she managed to beat out all the twig-thin gals who are begging studio execs every day to give them their own TV show?"

More to the point, I see this as his problem... actually his neurosis.  There isn't much you can really do.

I prefer thin woman; in fact, when I met Libby, I really didn't consider her for a long term relationship.  But as I came to know her, her weight became less and less of a factor.  Now, I couldn't imagine not being with her.  Love does interesting things.


My Master also prefers thin women but fell in love with me.  My question for you is did you continue to tell your wife that you would prefer her a bit lighter but still love her the way she was?  For me, and I readily admit it is my own issues here... it feels like a lack of accepting me as I am, and that scares me because I know the problems such a thing can cause in a relationship.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:15:49 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		OP, a few years ago i was in a relationship with a Dom who said he'd be patient while i lost the weight i wanted to lose.  there were always comments and i tried to ignore them.  i could barely be naked in front of him i was so self conscious.  the straw that broke the camels back was the day he told me that i needed to lose faster and be 100 lbs...i'd be sickly if i weighed that little.  i started to wonder if i'd ever meet the perfect image he had in his head and i finally realized i would never be able to, no matter how little i weighed.  i couldn't get away fast enough, but it did effect my self esteem in a huge way, so much  that i  put myself into a closet for a year and didn't dare come out in fear of rejection from anyone.

please don't let him effect your self image and esteem, it takes so long to overcome self doubt...i know, i'm overcoming it now and will be for some time to come.  if he can't accept you as you are now, how will he ever?  when you get those 20 lbs off i'm thinking he'll just find something else to complain about.  of course i don't know the ins and outs of your relationship, i'm just speaking from my own experience.

hugs and good luck


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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:21:47 AM   
tinkerbelle3


Posts: 55
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

I would rather work it out now than to let it become the elephant in the living room.  As with other subjects he is uncomfortable with, he talks around the issue a lot but doesn't really deal with the topic.  I'm just not sure how to go about solving this.  Any ideas?



This statement was interesting to me in that I believe it's a good starting point. Instead of working on the issue of his views on weight, why not discuss and explore this attribute? His idea on how to 'solve' the views he has regarding weight is to have you remind him when he's saying something. But doesn't it make sense that this ----> As with other subjects he is uncomfortable with, he talks around the issue a lot but doesn't really deal with the topic. <------ Is the crux of the issue?

- tinkerbelle

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:28:26 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Basically, he is carrying a prejudice.  Most prejudices are based in fear.  He might have something in his past that causes him to focus so heavily on weight and how it relates to a person's stature. 

I have been overweight since I was 15, getting up to 226 at only 5'3".  I lost 98 pounds - and found that being thin didn't make me any happier.  Instead I was angry and frustrated that I couldn't lose the last 2 pounds to make it a perfect 100.  I had turned too much of my focus onto the weight, equating it with a magical elixir for joy. 

Possibly the two of you could talk about when he started feeling this way about weight.  Perhaps he was overweight at some point; or someone close to him was and he transferred his disappointment in them to the extra pounds.  For instance, it is easier for children to think something like "that fat man is mean" than to be able to rationalize "that person is treating me unfairly, and that person is also overweight".



This is a very painful and uncomfortable issue for him.  He grew up with a weight and appearance obsessed father who, over the years, has picked at him for his weight and appearance.  Just the other day, I tried to talk with him about his feelings about this, but he shut it down quickly saying he didn't want to deal with it.  I understand it is his right to not talk about something that makes him feel uncomfortable or he isn't ready to deal with, but where is the balance when that issue is causing trouble in the relationship?

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:33:44 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3


This is a very painful and uncomfortable issue for him.  He grew up with a weight and appearance obsessed father who, over the years, has picked at him for his weight and appearance.  Just the other day, I tried to talk with him about his feelings about this, but he shut it down quickly saying he didn't want to deal with it.  I understand it is his right to not talk about something that makes him feel uncomfortable or he isn't ready to deal with, but where is the balance when that issue is causing trouble in the relationship?


At some point in time you may wish to point out that he is becoming his father with the kind of remarks he is making and that HE is starting to make YOU feel the way his FATHER made HIM feel perhaps this might make he understand the feelings he is causing in you.

Being a Bully is being a Bully, Love or not he is NOT accepting you as you are. If you are happy with your weight then so should he be however he is also your Master and if his opinion means anything to you perhaps you should think about it.

In the BDSM world things can get eskew at times because honestly he hasn't ordered you but he has let you know he wants something and you need to ask yourself if it is important enough to yo to do something about his want.

There is no Right or Wrong in this there is only what YOU and ONLY YOU are willing to do.

Steel

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:35:42 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tinkerbelle3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

I would rather work it out now than to let it become the elephant in the living room.  As with other subjects he is uncomfortable with, he talks around the issue a lot but doesn't really deal with the topic.  I'm just not sure how to go about solving this.  Any ideas?



This statement was interesting to me in that I believe it's a good starting point. Instead of working on the issue of his views on weight, why not discuss and explore this attribute? His idea on how to 'solve' the views he has regarding weight is to have you remind him when he's saying something. But doesn't it make sense that this ----> As with other subjects he is uncomfortable with, he talks around the issue a lot but doesn't really deal with the topic. <------ Is the crux of the issue?

- tinkerbelle


I do find it frustrating and unnerving that he doesn't deal with the topic openly and directly.  But, I also believe that simply telling him "you're talking about it again" makes the problem go away.  It just stuffs it away and eventually, those things that are stuffed down and never dealt with explode with sometimes ugly and disasterous results.  I don't want that to be the case here.  If we just don't talk about it, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:36:19 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3
I understand it is his right to not talk about something that makes him feel uncomfortable or he isn't ready to deal with, but where is the balance when that issue is causing trouble in the relationship?


When the issue is causing trouble in the relationship, that's precisely the moment when his right to avoid that issue goes away, imo. He doesn't have to confront it fully and instantly, but he needs to start taking active steps to deal with it...go to a counselor, etc.

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:43:02 AM   
Treasure3


Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3


This is a very painful and uncomfortable issue for him.  He grew up with a weight and appearance obsessed father who, over the years, has picked at him for his weight and appearance.  Just the other day, I tried to talk with him about his feelings about this, but he shut it down quickly saying he didn't want to deal with it.  I understand it is his right to not talk about something that makes him feel uncomfortable or he isn't ready to deal with, but where is the balance when that issue is causing trouble in the relationship?


At some point in time you may wish to point out that he is becoming his father with the kind of remarks he is making and that HE is starting to make YOU feel the way his FATHER made HIM feel perhaps this might make he understand the feelings he is causing in you.

Being a Bully is being a Bully, Love or not he is NOT accepting you as you are. If you are happy with your weight then so should he be however he is also your Master and if his opinion means anything to you perhaps you should think about it.

In the BDSM world things can get eskew at times because honestly he hasn't ordered you but he has let you know he wants something and you need to ask yourself if it is important enough to yo to do something about his want.

There is no Right or Wrong in this there is only what YOU and ONLY YOU are willing to do.

Steel


This is where some of my issues are butting heads with his.  His opinion does mean a lot to me, perhaps more than anyone else's has for a long, long time.  It would be easier in a way if he would say, "I want you to lose twenty pounds."  That would feel honest and direct.  As it is, it feels off, and I notice that I am resisting and finding the whole subject causes me to tense up.  I'm hearing a subtle message of  "I'd like you better if you weighed less," but he is saying, "I love you just as you are." 

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RE: a touchy subject but need advice - 6/7/2008 8:47:36 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I have similar issues. When I get disgusted with my body-I change my excercise and eating habits. The weight goes away-and I have lost five pounds in the past two months-and still dropping.
 
 The only real attitude that most fat people need to change is about food and discomfort. If you don't want to look like a pig-stop behaving like one.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/7/2008 8:53:09 AM >

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