RE: Being Poor... ( discuss )

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Lockit -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 4:43:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: really hope (honestly) that many around here never have life 'happen' to them. A little something that they could not control... like a car accident with someone else at fault, or a genetic disease that hits right at the wrong time or an illness that could not be prevented... you know... something you have absolutly nothing to do with except you are alive and at the right place at the right time, all wrong for you of course. Life is bound to happen. The challenge is always choosing how to respond when it does. I do not criticize anyone who finds themselves impoverished. I am, however, amazed at a great many who choose to remain there. It is quite amazing to see the numbers of those that do remain there when they could find a way to create a situation where they could change things. I do agree. But I do wish to add that everyone that finds themselves in a situation of life happening, does not stay there willingly and many try everything they can do or make happen to change things and still are stuck in poverty. Most of the many hundreds of people I worked with and knew did all they could to not land where they landed and I have witnessed some great human strides to improve a nearly hopeless situation, end with nothing and going no where except the pit of human life lived in the hell of illness and judgment of fellow human beings.

TheHeretic -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 7:06:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I really hope (honestly) that many around here never have life 'happen' to them. Amen to that, Lockit. I'm glad we live in a country with the compassion to hang out a safety net. There are some very big problems with the system though, We are heading into the fourth generation of welfare dependency, and the entitlement culture. The reason it takes so long for an SSDI case to run the full course is because you have 20-something victims of their own delusions clogging the system with applications because they suffer from ADHD and depression. The lines are so long in the welfare office because a series of third generation, lazy bits of human refuse are throwing tantrums in the back until they get they check, and the very same people are living in the limited supply of HUD and Section 8 housing. And too many of the rules and regulations that threaten the security of legitimate recipients, are band-aid, press-release, bullshit designed to look like the politicians are cracking down on fraud. I'm glad we do this stuff, but we need to do it a lot better.

Lockit -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 7:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I really hope (honestly) that many around here never have life 'happen' to them. Amen to that, Lockit. I'm glad we live in a country with the compassion to hang out a safety net. There are some very big problems with the system though, We are heading into the fourth generation of welfare dependency, and the entitlement culture. The reason it takes so long for an SSDI case to run the full course is because you have 20-something victims of their own delusions clogging the system with applications because they suffer from ADHD and depression. The lines are so long in the welfare office because a series of third generation, lazy bits of human refuse are throwing tantrums in the back until they get they check, and the very same people are living in the limited supply of HUD and Section 8 housing. And too many of the rules and regulations that threaten the security of legitimate recipients, are band-aid, press-release, bullshit designed to look like the politicians are cracking down on fraud. I'm glad we do this stuff, but we need to do it a lot better. Hear, hear! I plan to speak to the senator's office tomorrow on a couple of things concerning social security disabilty. My last call resulted in some good things, but... I don't know, it is too big a problem because of the fakes and abusers. I don't for one minute think they aren't there. They are and need to be stopped, but not all of us in this position deserve how we are treated. I have tried to do all I could to change my own circumstances. Hell... I could get some help that I am not taking. I don't want to live on the tax payer... but my son... it wasn't my fault and I am not willing to suffer it without some help. To those getting aid for the things you mentioned... man... would I like a few moments with them! lol

TheHeretic -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 7:38:20 PM)
Lockit, you have mail I think the best thing we could do from where we are with the welfare system would be to shift a lot of spending into funding grants for private programs, with new ideas. Street youth don't need a pittance every month, they need the swift kick in the ass of a boot-camp style vocational training program.

Lockit -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 7:55:24 PM)
LOL I so agree!

lronitulstahp -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 7:56:18 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPxVuOomEyI&feature=related

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 8:34:24 PM)
I always find it a bit Strange to hear people say that it takes so long for SSD and SSI to go through. My daughter, due to her birth defects, gets SSI and has since she was 2. The case was finished and approved before a single year was over, once it was applied for, and approval backdated to her birth (as the start of her disability). I had to jump through hoops during that year, and take her to a sucession of doctors that they required be seen - but the case didn't take forever to decide once all those appointments were out of the way. It didn't get denied and have to be appealed. I was her authorized rep until shortly after she turned 17, when she went into a group home - at that point the group home admin became her authorized rep. My dad, due to his stroke and subsequent inability to function, gets SSD -which he will get until he turns 65 in 2 more years, provided he survives that long. From the time he and I sat in the Social Security office to conduct the initial interview (I filled out most of the necessary paperwork for him online prior to the interview date) until the letter arrived stating that his case had been approved... and backdated to the first eligable date after his stroke, which was actually 4 months Before we even started applying... and specifying when he would start to recieve his benefits? 9 months. And 2 months of that time was spent waiting for HIS doctors' offices (both GP and specialists) to get copies of his medical records sent to them for review - not a delay on Their end, a delay in the private sector. The case was simply approved - no denial and then appeal. 2 very different types of cases. Spread 20 years apart. Prior to both, I got told numerous times to expect it to take anywhere from 3 to 5 Years for approval, and multiple appeals. I have to wonder, due to that, how many of the people who get denied again and again aren't telling the whole story. Did they fill out All of the paperwork that they were asked for? Did they provide all the medical documentation from physicians that they were asked for? Did they show up for all of their scheduled appointments and interviews? Were they offered alternatives like vocational retraining that they turned down? Because frankly - messing up on Any of those even once gets the case tossed in file 13, and you have to start all over again.

Lockit -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 8:44:22 PM)
LOL... my son was totally brain damaged.. not coming back from that kind of brain damaged. He needs total care and always will. They denied him... and now we are in the end of an 18 month wait for an appeal. It depends on the people processing things. It depends on the illness, disabilty... lots of things. But most cases are denied automatically the first time. Go to the social security web site... they even said there that it can take 4-6 years. I have heard of a few cases being shorter, but most are typically four years that I know about.

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:04:45 PM)
Then I suppose I should count myself Lucky or something? With my daughter - she was born with the disabilities. Physically 21, developmentally will never be more than 2, and her doctors consider the amount of progress she managed to make something along the lines of a miracle, because they never expected her to do more than lay in a crib with a feeding tube. With dad they're basically treating it like a stopgap between when his stroke happened and when he becomes eligable for the social security benefits he paid in for during the past 40+ years. When I filled out the paperwork for dad's SSD on the website, I saw the notation that it could take up to 4 years. I filled everything out figuring that perhaps it had gotten worse during the 20 years since my daughter's case was approved so quickly. I was surprised when the approval letter showed up in under a year - Pleased - but surprised. (That was in February, and the letter showed up 2 days After his backpayment got deposited into his savings!) Since then I've been thinking about what could be going on that some cases are taking that long, when every time I'm up there for anything, it's a quick in/out process. And I still wonder how many are potentially because the person themselves screwed something up. I'm not saying All are - I'm saying that I'm willing to bet a Percentage are. I'm willing to make that bet because of something that was said to me by the caseworker during the interview about dad's SSD. He admonished us to make sure we got anything they requested to them quickly and fully filled out, and to make sure that ANY appointments that I was notified of dad made it to - or the app would be denied out of hand and would have to be appealed or completely done over. If a case worker is willing to say that during an initial interview, it gives reason to wonder how many cases the same worker has had to turn down for those very reasons.

Alumbrado -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach I always find it a bit Strange to hear people say that it takes so long for SSD and SSI to go through. My daughter, due to her birth defects, gets SSI and has since she was 2. The case was finished and approved before a single year was over, once it was applied for, and approval backdated to her birth (as the start of her disability). I had to jump through hoops during that year, and take her to a sucession of doctors that they required be seen - but the case didn't take forever to decide once all those appointments were out of the way. It didn't get denied and have to be appealed. I was her authorized rep until shortly after she turned 17, when she went into a group home - at that point the group home admin became her authorized rep. My dad, due to his stroke and subsequent inability to function, gets SSD -which he will get until he turns 65 in 2 more years, provided he survives that long. From the time he and I sat in the Social Security office to conduct the initial interview (I filled out most of the necessary paperwork for him online prior to the interview date) until the letter arrived stating that his case had been approved... and backdated to the first eligable date after his stroke, which was actually 4 months Before we even started applying... and specifying when he would start to recieve his benefits? 9 months. And 2 months of that time was spent waiting for HIS doctors' offices (both GP and specialists) to get copies of his medical records sent to them for review - not a delay on Their end, a delay in the private sector. The case was simply approved - no denial and then appeal. 2 very different types of cases. Spread 20 years apart. Prior to both, I got told numerous times to expect it to take anywhere from 3 to 5 Years for approval, and multiple appeals. I have to wonder, due to that, how many of the people who get denied again and again aren't telling the whole story. Did they fill out All of the paperwork that they were asked for? Did they provide all the medical documentation from physicians that they were asked for? Did they show up for all of their scheduled appointments and interviews? Were they offered alternatives like vocational retraining that they turned down? Because frankly - messing up on Any of those even once gets the case tossed in file 13, and you have to start all over again. Glad it worked out so quickly in the cases you cited. Now let me share an anecdote...someone I know very well had developed a crippling disease and when it got to the point where they were completely unable to work, they reluctantly filed for SS. Every form was completed thoroughly, correctly, and well before time, hand carried to the appropriate people, names copied down, signatures gotten, follow up calls made. And after SS 'losing' the forwarded medical records a couple of times, they were sent a request for supplemental information. It specifically asked, 'Are you being treated for or do you take medications for any other conditions besides the one you are claiming as a disability?'. They honestly answered 'Yes, I have migraines as well, and take something for them'. After a long delay they got a form letter denying the claim because migraines weren't a disability... no mention of the actual serious crippling condition. That finally convinced them to listen to me, and get a lawyer specializing in SSI filings, who said they had to appeal the denial, then be denied again, and then be given a date for a hearing before he could do anything. Those steps took many more months...when they kept calling for the hearing date, long after the legal window for SS to reply had expired, they were told that SS had 'lost everything'...all records of the case. Well over 2 years at this point. The lawyer forced SS to 'find' the missing files, but by then my friend was so broke that they had to move back home with family (about 200 miles in the same state), and was told that they would have to start the process all over from scratch with the SS office there. A federal program, that cannot move case files within one state...[8\|] So it may be things like that that are making up the backlog, just as much as a flood of applicants.

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:27:01 PM)
Alumbrado - I'd say things like that are due to specific incompitant workers, probably playing CYA games so their supervisor doesn't find out just how much of a screw up they are, rather than the system itself. At least as far as the problems your friend had prior to moving. Maybe the office that I've dealt with - both times - here in this area simply has much better staff than some of the other offices. (Would surprise me if that were the case, because Oklahoma isn't Typically known to be an assignment that's high on the list for the really top notch folks - it's usually more of a "and just who the hell did you piss off to get transfered There?" kinda thing for those who aren't born and raised here!) At one point during the application process for my daughter, we honestly thought it Would get denied. One of the doctors that they had review my daughter's medical records "recommended denial" because she'd had neurosurgery when she was 4 days old - surgery to partially correct one of the multitude of problems she was born with. (Frontal Encephlocele - basically part of the meningis was outside the skull, due to the bones not closing together properly prior to birth. Related to Spina Bifida, but in my daughter's case, on her forehead rather than along the spine. The surgery was to remove the excess tissue and put a steel plate in place to prevent direct access to the brain for bacteria.) This gem of the medical profession apparantly decided that since the opening had been closed via surgery, that it should be considered "finished" - and proceeded to ignore the remainder of my daughter's medical records. The case worker and I were on good terms, so she discarded the doctor's recommendation and made an appointment for us with a different doctor that they also used - the second one didn't ignore the things that the first one had. It's NOT a perfect system by any stretch of the imagination. No system run by humans is Going to be perfect. Every system designed by humans Could Be perfect - provided that humans aren't the ones who are actually administering the system.

Lockit -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:34:44 PM)
Well in our case... THEY keep losing documents, wanting me to redo them, over and over and over again. My son was an oil rigger... he made good money and he had enough work hour credits from his last job alone to be approved. They said we didn't have enough employment information there. He was brain damaged... how were we know know every detail? I had the people at the social security office and hospital contractor helping with the paperwork. They are one department of gov. of two that I know of that would know all about every place he worked. Yet they wanted info from a brain damaged person. They didn't even look at his medical records.

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:48:54 PM)
That's weird, Lockit. Everyone that I've known Personally who had to deal with SSA (for anything other than sheer old age) - medical records were asked for up front, and those were reviewed prior to anything else being done, even an appointment being made with one of SSA's pet doctors. I guess I simply assumed that since that's the way it's done out here in this part of the country (or at least this state) that such was standard operating procedure for the entire SSA. Especially since one of the things listed on the SSA website while I was doublechecking what would be needed - was either copies of the medical records, or signed releases so that the doctors would send such. I was asked for info on dad's work history as well (though obviously not on daughter since she was still an infant lol), but that was in addition to his medical records. I guess I'm fortunate that his work history was easily documented - he worked for the same company doing the same type of job for the 22 years prior to his stroke, and only had 3 other companies that he'd worked for prior to that even though he's held a job since he was 15. They only Asked for documentation for the past 15 years.

kittinSol -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 9:51:26 PM)
Life is very long when you're lonely.

TheHeretic -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 10:15:52 PM)
Oh yes. The flaming hoops factor. How many people, I wonder, just give up somewhere along the way? How many are motivated to keep trying other things? How many family members step up in that time, to take a share of the burden they discover they can afford after all? And yes, how many die without draining the system on the way out? What a mess.

Racquelle -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 10:18:18 PM)
quote: Original: DomAviator I was hardly born to privelage and power I didn't say you were born into the proverbial "privlage and power". Your statements reinforce my point more than refute it. You don't have a sense of the opportunities you have had just because you are white and male. It is foolish to think that an issue as complex as poverty can have one simple cause. - but it would be even more foolish for me to think you actually believe the things you claim to believe. I grew up a poor kid in bad neighborhoods too, but I damn well know I was treated better in school because of my ethnicity. (And so do you, no matter how vociferously you deny it.) The deal is - NO ONE deserves to be treated badly or denied opportunities - NO ONE. Not even those lousy cat-eating immigrants who are just here for the free medical care and to rape our white women. Damned foreigners! Taking good dog-shit scooping jobs away from decent white guys!

Hanable -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 11:12:00 PM)
i dont claim to have been brought up poor becuz i know i could have gone with out a lot of stuff i have. but i do have a few things to say. 1.) people whos parents were in the military while growing up could have had a lot less.. sure.. u had to move around a lot.. but u NEVER had to worry about ur next meal. 2.) if you say ud never give a child a peice of bread or whatever that a bugs crawled on.. u should try being so poor thats the only food the kid might get all day.. and its the last slice. sometimes u have to eat stuff thats had bugs on it or whatever.. cuz its all u have. 3.) i may not have had all the nice shiny new toys.. but my parents were always there.. no staying late at work cuz they had to.. no had to go in cuz i cant miss work another day. i may not like my parents all the time.. but i will always be thankful that they were always there. these ppl that keep saying that jsut becuz someone dosnet have work means there lazy r liers. i cant find work becuz this stupid economey has outsorced most of the ones i could do.. and the other ones already have ppl in them.. with ppl loseing jobs every day.. how am i or the other unemployed people expected to find work.. especialy when ppl like DA r paying Illegals to pick up dog crap.. i may not like the job.. but id do that at this point.. think before u speak would ya. H >:)

farglebargle -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/10/2008 1:50:51 AM)
quote: So it may be things like that that are making up the backlog, just as much as a flood of applicants. Every day they deny benefits, they accrue interest on the money owed.

DomAviator -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/10/2008 2:14:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Racquelle quote: Original: DomAviator I was hardly born to privelage and power I didn't say you were born into the proverbial "privlage and power". Your statements reinforce my point more than refute it. You don't have a sense of the opportunities you have had just because you are white and male. It is foolish to think that an issue as complex as poverty can have one simple cause. - but it would be even more foolish for me to think you actually believe the things you claim to believe. I grew up a poor kid in bad neighborhoods too, but I damn well know I was treated better in school because of my ethnicity. (And so do you, no matter how vociferously you deny it.) The deal is - NO ONE deserves to be treated badly or denied opportunities - NO ONE. Not even those lousy cat-eating immigrants who are just here for the free medical care and to rape our white women. Damned foreigners! Taking good dog-shit scooping jobs away from decent white guys! Raquelle, I dont know where the last part of your post came from as I never said anything derogatory about my dog shit guy or immigrants in general. I actually applaud his inititave and ambition. To my knowledge, from what I have gathered through my limited command of Tejano Spanish, he is a devout catholic and a married man with two sons, and a daughter who is having a quincenerea this year. I have absolutely no reason to believe he ever raped anyone, or ate a cat. I know at various times he has been to my house he has been alone with Laura and BrittneyLee and raped neither, and my cat, Nala, remains alive and uneaten. Rather than deny him opportunity, I extend it by choosing to patronize his innovative business and to avail myself of the service he offers. If anything, he is the embodiment of the American dream. He has come to this country, created his own job, and grown it into a rather lucrative little business. I certainly do not condemn him or treat him badly, rather I cite him as an example to others who think they "can not". This man took nothing more than an idea and some ambition, a pair of latex gloves and a trash bag and integrated himself into becoming a productive self supporting member of our society and a contributor to our service based economy. I deny him nothing and hope he grows to become the largest dog shit removal company in the USA. He should franchise it!

philosophy -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/10/2008 9:37:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator I deny him nothing and hope he grows to become the largest dog shit removal company in the USA. He should franchise it! ...maybe he could team with up with some hippy engineer and create a combined dog shit removal/alternative energy from dog doodoo business.

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