RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 6:41:19 PM)

tease ;)




celticlord2112 -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 6:42:47 PM)

quote:

Instead i should have said 'too bad i didn't know i'd still be an unskilled worker when i graduated.'

Girl, everyone's an unskilled worker when they graduate college.  Takes about a year or so in the workforce to acquire skills.  Everything before that is just concepts.  Skill is in the doing.




Aynne -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 6:43:39 PM)

Who me? Who told? Was it DA? lol.....damn it GT you are on to me....you are a hostage now girlie. 




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 7:23:34 PM)

Aynne, a few things here.  While my Screen Name might reference Georgia, and my family is originally From Georgia (several generations prior to myself) I was born and raised in Oklahoma.  I was living in Georgia when I originally opened a CM account - hence the location reference.  I'm an Okie by birth and blood, 5 generations in the making now.  (The family left Georgia when the Eastern Cherokee were robbed and forced on a march.  Remember that, post civil war?  It's known as the Trail of Tears.)   I live in Oklahoma currently (after a brief unpleasant stint on the east coast) and run my business by Oklahoma regulatory statutes - what I take out of the company to pay the bills is reported as Income - but it is not a Salary.  It's never the same amount in any given month, and is based on the actual amount of my bills for the month, rather than a predetermined bi-weekly or monthly wage.  During months when the company runs in the red (as many new businesses do from time to time, when they're still in the start up phase), the bills get paid out of savings, which have already been taxed and therefore are not Subject to being taxed Again.  I made sure prior to starting my business that I had sufficient funds set aside that even if the company ran in the red for it's first 2 years, I still had money to pay the bills.   I fully expected not to be seeing a profit for at least the first 12 to 18 months, and potentially until the first 36 months had passed.
 
On another note - I find it telling that you completely ignored the clarification that YOU asked for, concerning families having been told to leave Europe, and that being a reason to not want to travel out of the country.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 7:35:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
I will gladly give food to someone on the side of the road who needs it.  I will not give money.  The reason for that is a simple one.  I have a natural distrust of human beings.  My trust is earned not offered.  Its just the way I am.


Irish - this is the same kinda reason that I offer to let people standing on streetcorners hold "hungry will work" signs odd jobs at my place in exchange for meals.  I do that about once a month - and I consistantly get told "why not just give me a few bucks to walk across the street to McDonalds?"
 
If I offer an opportunity, and they turn down that opportunity because it's  not what they Really want - then it's their fucking problem from that point on.




Aynne -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 7:48:46 PM)

I read your reasoning. So if that is the case, you choose to not travel outside of the US because hundreds of years ago your ancesters suffered slights at the hands of long dead people. I just didn't get it. Their is a huge disconnect somewhere. The entire world outside of America is not worth seeing? You are missing out on much.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 8:09:01 PM)

My family, both sides, were told to get out of Europe.  They obliged.  I see no reason to spend my money traveling to or shopping in countries that didn't want my family there in the first place.  I can learn the history, the culture, the traditions.... I can see the exotic locations..... all thanks to 21st century technology. Without funding places that - quite frankly - hate me because I was born and raised here, and could give a flyin shit what my motives are as long as they get those tourista dollars.  No thanks - I'll spend my money here in the US, supporting my own country's small business owners and tourist sites.




Archer -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 8:19:57 PM)

One generally ends up where they are at any given moment as a direct result of the choices they have made up to that point. The starting pont may be diferent based on circumstances of birth, but after one reaches the age of reason they start making the largest decissions that will effect their lives.
Will I pay attention in school and learn/ do the work/ take as much advantage of the education system in place where I am?
Will I remain in school until graduation
Will I choose to stay off and away from drugs
Will I choose to remain celebate, or use effective birth control
Will I choose to take a job and work on advancement either within or outside of that company
Will I choose to risk my future by engadging in criminal behaviour
Will I choose to work only a 40 hour week or will I work 50,60,80 hours a week?
Will I choose to become involved in a romantic relationship before or after I have gotten education and work foundation behind me?

Every choice you make, those listed and those not listed, will open some doors and close others in your future.

Want to end up poor make those same choices that you have seen the poor have consistantly chosen
Want to get ou of that group make the choices that those who are where you think you want to be have consistantly made.
Doingso does not ensure it will happen but it certainly increases or decreases your odds.




pinksugarsub -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:25:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Instead i should have said 'too bad i didn't know i'd still be an unskilled worker when i graduated.'

Girl, everyone's an unskilled worker when they graduate college.  Takes about a year or so in the workforce to acquire skills.  Everything before that is just concepts.  Skill is in the doing.



i wish i had had  some vocational guidance, celticlord.  i have never seen an ad 'sociologist wanted'.
 
pinksugarsub




pinksugarsub -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:30:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Aynne, a few things here.  While my Screen Name might reference Georgia, and my family is originally From Georgia (several generations prior to myself) I was born and raised in Oklahoma.  I was living in Georgia when I originally opened a CM account - hence the location reference.  I'm an Okie by birth and blood, 5 generations in the making now.  (The family left Georgia when the Eastern Cherokee were robbed and forced on a march.  Remember that, post civil war?  It's known as the Trail of Tears.)   I live in Oklahoma currently (after a brief unpleasant stint on the east coast) and run my business by Oklahoma regulatory statutes - what I take out of the company to pay the bills is reported as Income - but it is not a Salary.  It's never the same amount in any given month, and is based on the actual amount of my bills for the month, rather than a predetermined bi-weekly or monthly wage.  During months when the company runs in the red (as many new businesses do from time to time, when they're still in the start up phase), the bills get paid out of savings, which have already been taxed and therefore are not Subject to being taxed Again.  I made sure prior to starting my business that I had sufficient funds set aside that even if the company ran in the red for it's first 2 years, I still had money to pay the bills.   I fully expected not to be seeing a profit for at least the first 12 to 18 months, and potentially until the first 36 months had passed.
 
On another note - I find it telling that you completely ignored the clarification that YOU asked for, concerning families having been told to leave Europe, and that being a reason to not want to travel out of the country.


There is a tax planning technique, known as an 'S corporation', that allows owners to report earnings, but not salary, to the IRS.  i'd imagine all the states have to abide by this.  This technique allows owners to avoid payroll taxes and other tax burdens.
 
As an aside: i know nothing at all about my family.  i realise yrs suffered terribly -- yet i envy you that sense of where you came from.

pinksugarsub




celticlord2112 -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:32:32 PM)

quote:

i wish i had had some vocational guidance, celticlord. i have never seen an ad 'sociologist wanted'.

And you won't.

But you will find ads for jobs in marketing, sales, et cetera. 

I'm a network engineer and freelance consultant.  My college degree is in accounting and management.  What we study and what we do for a living.....two different things.




pinksugarsub -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:38:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

I read your reasoning. So if that is the case, you choose to not travel outside of the US because hundreds of years ago your ancesters suffered slights at the hands of long dead people. I just didn't get it. Their is a huge disconnect somewhere. The entire world outside of America is not worth seeing? You are missing out on much.


Travel to Europe is what i'd call 'a high class problem'.  i can't afford to travel to my MD's office.  Hell, i can't even afford the fee to apply for a passport.
 
pinksugarsub




pinksugarsub -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:42:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

i wish i had had some vocational guidance, celticlord. i have never seen an ad 'sociologist wanted'.

And you won't.

But you will find ads for jobs in marketing, sales, et cetera. 

I'm a network engineer and freelance consultant.  My college degree is in accounting and management.  What we study and what we do for a living.....two different things.



i'm not bitching.  i had a blast in college.  But the only advantage i ever got from holding a B.S. in Sociology was that it helped make me eligible to apply to law school.
 
pinksugarsub




Archer -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:51:53 PM)

And YOU chose your major. again we return to you make a choice and some doors open while other doors close.
The odds never reach a certainty, but all along the way you are stacking the deck you play with. You start off with whatever hand you are delt and you draw and discard all yourr life.

Sociology has benifits and liabilities that it offers any person seeking that degree. If you ignore those when you start college then you make a decission without thinking it all the way through.




Racquelle -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 10:53:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator There is no excuse for poverty in America except laziness.
  Says the white male...

You've no idea the opportunities you have enjoyed exclusively because of that peculiar circumstance of your birth, nor the opportunities denied to those not quite as lucky.

And of course, if we convince ourseleves the sole cause of poverty is the personal choice of those who are poor, it makes it so much easier for those of us who are not poor to sleep at night. 

Though I have lived in poverty, today I live well enough to share, and for that I am grateful.




DomAviator -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 11:21:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator There is no excuse for poverty in America except laziness.
  Says the white male...

You've no idea the opportunities you have enjoyed exclusively because of that peculiar circumstance of your birth, nor the opportunities denied to those not quite as lucky.



Racquelle,

I beg to differ. I was hardly born into privelage and power. I had a heavy drinking GED having lifer USN Master Chief father who was a hell of a lot more likely to put a boot in my ass than a silver spoon in my mouth. I am the first person in my paternal family line to ever graduate college. Everything I have ever done, everything I have ever gotten, everything I have ever earned from my college degree to my Navy wings to the lifestyle I enjoy today I clawed my way to over the admonitions of the people who told me I couldnt do it.

My father was a Navy Master Chief, how hard do you think the Marine Gunny at OCS was on me huh? How many times do you think I head that I didnt belong there and that I should go to RTC to be with "my own kind."??? (Which is kind of amusing because a Master Chief is an E-9 and a Gunny is only an E-7 and both are NCO's) 

I was hardly born to privelage and power - I fought my way to it, and worked my ass off for it. My first job was on a blasting crew, drilling rock with a jackhammer... Hardly an auspicious start. I paid for some of my college by working a wildland fire crew, cutting line with a shovel and a pulaski and sleeping in the dirt...




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/8/2008 11:56:16 PM)

I'm actually looking at incorporation via LLC rather than SCorp - the advantages for me as a sole proprietorship with no other employees are significantly better, especially when the fact that my start up costs came strictly from my own capital rather than borrowing anything from banks or other sorts of "investors" is factored in.  I won't have to write out articles of incorporation, like I would with regular incorporation or  an SCorp.  And I'll still be able to file my taxes on my personal 1040 rather than having to go to the hassle of filing them seperately and creating a bunch of extra paperwork for myself.  Businesses only pay taxes on Net income - ie, what's left after expenses, otherwise known as profit.  Individuals only pay taxes on Income - actual wages - which are typically considered part of those business expenses. There is no where in the law that Requires a person to take a wage - otherwise things like Volunteer Organizations would be illegal.  There are plenty of places within the law that state if you get a wage,  you must report it and pay taxes on it, and they specify under what conditions a company can be classified as a not-for-profit organization. (My business will never be a not-for-profit lol)   
 
I have an Apprentice - a 17 yr old, the son of a friend, who routinely comes and does things in the shop with me - without pay - in exchange for me teaching him a trade.  Do you think I report him as an Employee?  Hell no, because he's Not an employee - he's a volunteer. It keeps him off the streets and out of trouble, it teaches him something useful, and it motivates him to do things like stay in school and off drugs, since I've made those things conditions of him continuing to act as my apprentice.  This is a kid who - even though his family are poor (not sure if the electricity is gonna be on from one month to the next, don't always have something to put on the table kinda poor) - humps it consistantly finding himself odd jobs.  He mows lawns in the summer.  When the pecan trees in his yard and the neighbor's were loaded, he made some money both by picking up the fallen pecans the neighbor didn't want to deal with, and by harvesting the nuts and turning them into candy and muffins and selling them in the neighborhood.  He's motivated as all get out, and I've been damn proud of his efforts over the past several months.
 
As a sole proprietorship, I don't face the same Type of "employment" taxes as corporates - or even small companies that have employees other than the owner. I pay a much lower self employment tax as a sole proprietorship than I would if I were to get an EIN (employer identification number) and incorporate myself as a standard corporation.  The taxes on my business, for example, are much different having no other employees than say the taxes on DA's business that has multiple employees, or even the Partnership that aynne mentioned having once been part of.  I'm not even sure what all the tax laws are concerning Partnerships or Limited Partnerships, since this has been a sole proprietorship from the get go.  The same will be true as an LLC.  The primary advantage for me to be gained via incorporation as Either an LLC or SCorp is that it effectively Legally seperates "business" from "personal" and greatly reduces the amount of personal liability I hold (the risk of losing things like my Home) should someone get a bug up their butt to sue over something.  In our currently litigation crazed society, that sort of CYA is simply good business sense.  Either way, prior to even getting started filling out paperwork for things like my state sales tax permit, I did research on what was going to be the best option for me business wise, both short term and long term.




meatcleaver -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 12:04:48 AM)

I notice how many people spout platitudes and belittle people who have suffered from poverty but not one has mentioned the psychological damage the oppression of poverty causes. One of the main reasons people get trapped in poverty apart from the lack of material wealth, is the mental damage poverty inflicts, the psychological alienation, the inability to function rationally and the low self esteem. One of the main reasons why America has persistant poverty and a lack of mobilty when compared to other developed countries are the platitudes about anyone can get out of poverty, they just have to work hard. It is not so and has been known not to be so for a long long time. Poverty is one of the major causes of mental illness, to not recognize that fact is to not understand the nature of poverty and the damage it inflicts.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 12:56:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

according to the advertisements,one can "save" money, simply by spending money.  The more you shop- the more you save.   So thats how to deal with poverty.  Shop sales to save.  Shop heavy duty, save heavy duty.

see?

Wise guy. [:D]




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Being Poor... ( discuss ) (6/9/2008 1:28:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Good subject for discussion, FB. 
 
I think most of us will agree that being poor in the US is not the same as being poor in a less developed country.  We still have social programs and other resources for assistance.
 
What some have brought up but has not been addressed is being one of the working poor in the US.  That means that you have part or full time employment but still struggle for basic necessities.  Many people reading here have been or are at this stage of economics.
 
You manage to barely get by financially, but necessities like health and decent housing are long term goals or only dimmly remembered.  The lack of affordable, competent health care will undercut many efforts to improve a person's situation.
 
Have a sick family member who needs round the clock care during an illness? Well, forget about keeping that low paying job at the local mini-mart.  But hey, some of their paychecks are late or returned NSF after you have paid the rent and utilities and bought groceries.  So then you have the fees to your bank and everyone to cover.
 
So why are the paychecks late or NSF?  The business is going well.  Hey, the owner is never around and lets his incompent, spoiled son run the business.  Yeah, he gives money from the cash register to his friends and any females that he wants and removes funds in the safe to go party all the time.  He becomes threatening and tells you to look away and not say anything, or he will tell daddy to fire your ass.
 
Are you the one or two persons in the household working when some jackass tears through a red light and hits your car, leaving you on disability for several months?  Watch your whole standard of living collapse.
 
Your family may well become homeless in the process, at the very least utilities are going to be a big problem.
 
The board of directors or CEO/CFO of your compangy/organization were corrupt coke or meth heads snorting the profits up their noses and fled the country with all the money?  Hey, you get unemployment at least.  But forget about COBRA or any other form of health care for your family.  You can afford to pay all medical expenses out of pocket now since Unemployment Insurance will pay less than half of your rent, right?
 
Your old neighborhood goes from being a mellow working class place where all the folks get along well; Latino, White, Asian and Black, to one where there are helicoptors hovering overhead looking for suspects and drug dealers waving guns around in the street.  You can just pack up and move right?  But how can you afford to move when there are elderly/unmentionables who need medical care and your check barely covers the rent and utilities. 
 
How are you going to save the money for first, last and deposit?  You already work 50-60 hours a week and come home to take care of those dependent on your being able bodied.  So getting a second job is not an option.  And if you go looking for a better job, you have to take time off from work for the search and interviews.

So your current employer, who owns a fleet of cars, trucks, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc and still whines that they cannot provide medical insurance  for any of their employees, is going to think you are undependable.
 
What an outstanding post. But you gloss over the fact that poor people are worthless scum who have been passed over by God. If they don't have an education, it's because God made them stupid, not because they suffered malnutrition as kids because their parents couldn't get jobs because the parents were stupid because they couldn't get good nutrition because... If they don't have good medical care, it's because God wants them to die, not because they can't make enough money for decent care because they are too stupid because... And, of course, poor people are all criminals and thieves and welfare cheats and alcoholics and drug addicts because they are evil, and right-thinking white Christians lock evil people up. Claiming an extra exemption is cause for prison if one is poor, but the Ken Lays and Jeffery Skillings and Dick Cheneys of the world aren't really criminals; they're good businessmen.

God Bless America!




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