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RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 3:25:29 PM   
InsaenPleasures


Posts: 49
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline 		You know I am probably going to catch holy hell for this...

I do not see a great deal of wisdom in what was said that is not common wisdom most intelligent people should know. She does make a few good points and to be honest, depsite it being common sense people do constantly need to be reminded of some of it.

However, some parts of the list seem more like a guide to the cool kids as opposed to a ready made and accurate guide to a "Good Dom"

For example... what do his friends have to do with anything? Yes its all about the company you keep but how are creepy friends bad? How does one define creepy? They all dress in black? They all play D&D? Well look out ladies, cause that describes all of my friends.

He believes all women are naturally submissive? Well yes some people do believe (I do not) including a fair amount of women.  Again does not seem like an accurate guide for judgement.

Lives in his parents basement? How tired and over used is that? Honestly the guy could be rich OR his parents might be older and need him to take care of them.

Lets take the other side of the list -

Responsible working adult who was well liked by good people - Ted Bundy, need I say more...

Takes care of his aging parents... ok but what if he lives in their basement?

Is honest about his relationships... that describes a number of people who brow beat their spouse into accepting an open relationship. Just because he is honest does not make him good.

Yes I realize they are guidelines and not hard or fast rules but they are presented in such a way that they are taken as wisdom from on high and thats as dangerous an attitude as ignoring basic common sense.

And to missunderstood88's point: if you are writng a piece about good communication, it might at least be a good idea to mention alternative relationships, like homosexual or bisexual D/s.  I mean should gay men and women ignore the rules? Are gay Doms who live in their parents basement good people, where hetero ones are not?

Its good that Midori is trying pound the concept of common sense into those new or inexperienced in the relationship but lets not start cononizing someone because she writes one middle of the road and narrowly focused article.

Logan

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 3:55:28 PM   
SweetNika


Posts: 955
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Forest Hills, Maryland
Status: offline 		I read this article several times in full before I decided to post my opinions on it. I personally think articles like this one are self serving and a very narrow minded view of what makes a healthy D/s or M/s relationship. Here are some of the things I took personal issue with in this article and why.
 
 
"You can't call him at home." I know many people who don't have "home phones" they just have their cell numbers period.

"He is freinds are creepy." Who defines what is creepy? Midora? Me? The guy down the street?

"He is living in his parents basement" What if he is paying rent, or supporting them finacially by stayign there? What if he is taking care of them?

"He is never wrong." What man or women doesn't have some issue admiting they are  wrong?


"He learned from some mysteryious old gaurd traning house. " I  know and respect many old gaurd homes I find this remark rather snide and insulting. 

"He isn't interested in you as a whole person." Some slaves don't want to be seen as people but mere property for the pleasure of their owners. 

"He expects you to be super perfect slave." What is wrong with holding your property or yourself to high standards?

"He beleives all women are inherently submissive." Ther are those that beleive in natural order thus beleive that all women are naturally submissive but that society and the womans lib has trained their minds to think that is wrong

"He tries to hit on your friends, talk them down or other wise disrespect them. "
Welp my friends wouldn't be insulted if my dom hit on them - nor would I be jealous or feel disrespect b/c the women I hang out with I tend to hit on as well. lol Plus who decided what is disrespectful or acceptable behavior?

Blessed be,
Nika

< Message edited by SweetNika -- 6/10/2008 4:17:52 PM >

_____________________________

Blessed be,
Nika


(in reply to InsaenPleasures)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 4:06:25 PM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missunderstood88

I can respect that she's as pansexual as one can be, but she needs to include that in her writing style. The essay is 100% heteronormative. I know it sounds nit-picky, but this sort of exclusionary language really does saturate the environment and it's quite off-putting to minority groups.

Warm regards,
M88




Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...........   So the actual contained value is subject to the dialectic of the moment?  Well, that basically guarantees that no one anywhere will ever learn anything of value ever.  Of course, what do I know, being a member of the oppressing skin color, class and gender?

(in reply to missunderstood88)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 5:15:19 PM   
Sinimint


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		I thought it was a good read........ general but good advice....

< Message edited by Sinimint -- 6/10/2008 5:20:46 PM >

(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 5:29:50 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missunderstood88

I can respect that she's as pansexual as one can be, but she needs to include that in her writing style. The essay is 100% heteronormative. I know it sounds nit-picky, but this sort of exclusionary language really does saturate the environment and it's quite off-putting to minority groups.

Warm regards,
M88



OK SO every noun discribing a person should be done this way??????
Sub/slave/bottom/girl/boy/boi/slut/property/ should be warry of Doms/dommes/divas/sadists/master/mistress/top/daddy/daddi/mommy who acts in this manner.......
If you write it out so that nobody can possibly be offended then the article becomes a string of hashmarks seperating 9865487634785634871658716587 catagories of people and the idea being communicating gets lost.
It has become basic and common practice for writters in this field BDSM Non Fiction to simplky write in a single D/s and allow the reader to C&P their own labels into the writting.

People who have done so in npublished books already
Midori
Bob Rubel
Jack Rinella
the list can be continued if you want to argue the point.


(in reply to missunderstood88)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 5:56:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory




Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...........   So the actual contained value is subject to the dialectic of the moment?  Well, that basically guarantees that no one anywhere will ever learn anything of value ever.  Of course, what do I know, being a member of the oppressing skin color, class and gender?




GINGER MEN!!  Watch out for them!

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 7:31:39 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
It has become basic and common practice for writters in this field BDSM Non Fiction to simplky write in a single D/s and allow the reader to C&P their own labels into the writting.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Archer.

If the essay referenced in the OP had been written as simply D/s, then yes, you would have a perfectly valid point, but it wasn't. It was written exclusively for the point of view of the majority, which strikes me as peculiar since the practice of BDSM is purported to include a vast array of interests and orientations. What do you think?

By the way, those of you who simply opened a bag of scorn and threw it at me can go piss up a rope. You've contributed nothing of worth to the discussion.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 7:38:23 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InsaenPleasures

You know I am probably going to catch holy hell for this...

I think you're safe. It's more fun to bash the queer on this site, apparently. :)
quote:

(Continued)

And to missunderstood88's point: if you are writng a piece about good communication, it might at least be a good idea to mention alternative relationships, like homosexual or bisexual D/s.  I mean should gay men and women ignore the rules? Are gay Doms who live in their parents basement good people, where hetero ones are not?

That's a good question, and I'm glad you brought it up. At the very minimum, a simple nod to the existence of other orientations really would have sufficed.

(in reply to InsaenPleasures)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 7:42:31 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		So you can learn something by watching Ana Ivanovic play because she is tall, but Anna Kournikova has nothing to teach you because she is "short" -- i.e., not like you?

How about: take your lessons where you can find them?  I try to look for the best in people, and what I share with them, not what sets me apart.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to missunderstood88)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 7:45:41 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		after seeing this post I had to rethink there are many so called points of view
people whos ideas people tag to as being the norm or accepted behavior.

SAY WHAT    I do not think any one person has really expertly certified meaning of all the sexual concepts they change so much and with every generation that it is worse then some computer programs to keep up with     so hell just live it have fun

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:00:02 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

So you can learn something by watching Ana Ivanovic play because she is tall, but Anna Kournikova has nothing to teach you because she is "short" -- i.e., not like you?

How about: take your lessons where you can find them? I try to look for the best in people, and what I share with them, not what sets me apart.


Well, straight man from Iowa, that's a lot easier to do for you than it is for me. You've got a lot in common with other people, so you don't experience what it is like to be reminded almost continually for your entire waking life that you are not like everyone else and that this culture really doesn't have you or your best interests in mind. You don't have to look for what you share with people because you mostly already do share a lot with other people.

All I'm saying is that the simplest nod to the existence of non-straight men and women would have been appreciated. I don't much like being treated as if I don't exist.

Did you skim my profile to see that I am a very tall tennis player? That's really clever if you did that and then deliberately chose the tennis analogy, by the way. :)

Regards,
M88

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:00:58 PM   
HizBabyGirl


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		Excuse me, but you caught me on an off day. And to be clear, this is not directed at you. But I am SO TIRED of all the games, all the promises, all the lies, sometimes I just want to give up. And in a way I do for a while. I have not been actively looking. Sometimes I feel like what is the use? Your article brought it to mind because the last person I talked with sounded really good out of the starting gate but it didn't take long for me to realize that he wanted everything and he had nothing to give in return. He was a selfish ass who thought that just by advertising for a submissive someone would sign on to be his sex slave and housekeeper and in return he would give nothing. Oh sure, he was going to screw me and let me suck his cock, but the emotional return I needed was not there. Are there ANY REAL PEOPLE AROUND HERE? Why do I hear an echo?

(in reply to maxfalke)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:04:56 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HizBabyGirl
Are there ANY REAL PEOPLE AROUND HERE? Why do I hear an echo?

A few. :)

(in reply to HizBabyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:08:46 PM   
Maestro66babycak


Posts: 396
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetNika

I read this article several times in full before I decided to post my opinions on it. I personally think articles like this one are self serving and a very narrow minded view of what makes a healthy D/s or M/s relationship. Here are some of the things I took personal issue with in this article and why.
 
 
"You can't call him at home." I know many people who don't have "home phones" they just have their cell numbers period.

"He is freinds are creepy." Who defines what is creepy? Midora? Me? The guy down the street?

"He is living in his parents basement" What if he is paying rent, or supporting them finacially by stayign there? What if he is taking care of them?

"He is never wrong." What man or women doesn't have some issue admiting they are  wrong?


"He learned from some mysteryious old gaurd traning house. " I  know and respect many old gaurd homes I find this remark rather snide and insulting. 

"He isn't interested in you as a whole person." Some slaves don't want to be seen as people but mere property for the pleasure of their owners. 

"He expects you to be super perfect slave." What is wrong with holding your property or yourself to high standards?

"He beleives all women are inherently submissive." Ther are those that beleive in natural order thus beleive that all women are naturally submissive but that society and the womans lib has trained their minds to think that is wrong

"He tries to hit on your friends, talk them down or other wise disrespect them. "
Welp my friends wouldn't be insulted if my dom hit on them - nor would I be jealous or feel disrespect b/c the women I hang out with I tend to hit on as well. lol Plus who decided what is disrespectful or acceptable behavior?

Blessed be,
Nika


Nika this sounds like a bunch of poor excuses to me.

_____________________________

I live between the Rock and the Hard Place.

(in reply to SweetNika)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:16:36 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		Wow ...

for what its worth... Midori is a lesbian... unless she's switched teams again.. although I'll admit, I have no clue how she identifies...

I guess I don't get why this is simply about straight women.. generic advice is.. just that generic


quote:

ORIGINAL: missunderstood88

I guess it's an okay piece if you're heterosexual. A better title would have been Midori Speaks: Thoughts for Submission Inclined Straight Women. Part 1.


_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to missunderstood88)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:30:39 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I find not listening to blowhards and nutjobs to be an important part of growth.  Midori is like LA, she shouldn't be so grounded and wise but she is both personified which is why those two women rock!


I'm curious about something Michael. Why do you think a woman in her 40's shouldn't be grounded and wise? That's fairly well seasoned.


Bita, because they are both women?  No, that can't be it....hmmm, perhaps because Midori seems on the surface all about, well, surface shit.  She is a FETISH ARTIST, two things that scream flake to me.  However, she is anything but and is actually rather laid back in person.  As for LA, she is still fairly young but is wise WAY beyond her years, which is why even old farts like me stop and think when she makes a comment directed our way

As for the whiney fags who bitch about Midori's sexist comments, grow the fuck up, that woman is more queer friendly than any of you will EVER be so drop the trumped up indignance and grow up.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:40:37 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

Wow ...

for what its worth... Midori is a lesbian... unless she's switched teams again.. although I'll admit, I have no clue how she identifies...

I guess I don't get why this is simply about straight women.. generic advice is.. just that generic


It's not generic advice for everyone. If I crossed my eyes and tried to ignore the fact that the woman is the submissive and the man is dominant in every single example, itemized list, and illustative metaphor in the essay, then it might be possible to transmogrify it into generic advice for anyone, but I'm not into playing pretend. It's blatantly biased towards heteronormative values. Let's look at the very first paragraph of the essay together:

quote:

Are you a woman seeking to submit in a D/s relationship? Or maybe you've been exploring a bit with partners, in flesh and digital form. When you were a little girl, did you feel tingly at the thought of a handsome, strong prince, totally in charge? Perhaps true-crime stories with captured women strangely excited you. Or maybe you stroked between your legs reading the "Story of O".


There's a hint, just a hint mind you, of straight bias there in the bit about the "handsome strong prince," but I could be overreacting. However, the rest of the essay bears me out, so it turns out I'm not. From that point forward, and without deviation (no pun intended), every single reference to gender is female submissive, male dominant. All of them.

That's what I'm on about.

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:43:44 PM   
missunderstood88


Posts: 37
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As for the whiney fags who bitch about Midori's sexist comments, grow the fuck up, that woman is more queer friendly than any of you will EVER be so drop the trumped up indignance and grow up.


"Whiney fags?" You're a pillar of tolerance, now aren't you? Consider my previous remark about ropes and pissing to be retroactively inclusive of you.

Edit:

Oh, this what you write in your own profile about yourself:
quote:

I am not the man I was when I began this journey. I have matured and grown into my dominance, I have learned humility to temper my arrogance, patience to temper my anger, and vulnerability to inform my honesty.

For the first time I am truly at peace with myself.

Is that so? I'm not seeing it here.

< Message edited by missunderstood88 -- 6/10/2008 8:50:17 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:45:09 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		missunderstood, you are demonstrating your ignorance of who Midori is.  If anyone has earned the right to talk that way without being judged, it's her.  It's like saying Margaret Cho is not gay-friendly because she also fucks men.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to missunderstood88)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Advice For Submissives from Midori - 6/10/2008 8:45:11 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		missunderstood88, as several folks have already mentioned Midori is predominently lesbian, although she does do SM at least with a few (generally gay) men. I think I saw one male scene with her and the guy was gay, the rest of the people in service to her that I have noted have all been female. She chose ONE pronoun set and expected the reader to C&P their gender/ power label as appropriate. The fact that she chose the predominent gender identifications is mearly a reflection of her basic view that the labels can be played with and thus exchanged.

One might assume that she ment Het Male Dom, however the pronouns for some Lesbian relationships can be exactly the same when the Daddy is a butch dyke (said with all the love and respect in the world) and the submissive is a fem. To assume it is the former and not the latter might be safe unless you happen to know the woman writting the article. Midori twists turns and plays with assumptions about gender and roles all the time.
In fact she was the first person to open my mind to the real potential for a Masochistic Dominant. As well as the submission required and how it messes with the mind to order a slave to beat their Owner.

I can assure you knowing the woman a bit that the idea that she is being insensitive to gender issues would rouse a huge round of laughter from her.



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 40
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