RE: Honor Amoung Friends

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candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/1/2005 7:57:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper i cannot imagine basing my choices on someone else's judgment [ quote: Then I hope you're not actually serious about this whole submission thing. MsIncognito Of course i am; i'd like nothing more than to have found my One. The context in which i spoke was that, much as i may respect another, i weigh what they have to say; not follow thoughtlessly. This is how i interact with other people; of course my Dom would be a Man holding final decision power....that's quite a different thing. Somehow i don't think You really needed this explained, but ok, You asked...so i answered. candystripper

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/1/2005 9:14:38 PM)
quote: Can I just point out that when I made the decision to change names here that I was very careful to a) Post the same profile pic to make sure people connected the two b) Posted references to the other profile in each profile c) Didn't change font style or anything else to make the transition as smooth as possible I wanted it to be a "non-noticeable change" as much as possible. Of course, and logically so. It made the transition much smoother, though I admit to being disoriented for a minute or two when I saw your name had changed. [;)] However, maybe Pink's entire reason for switching to a new profile was to gain a new sense of identity, or to update and refresh a changing identity. We all have various reasons as to why we do the things we do, and I'm sure none of us would want to force our sense of propriety on anyone else, since we're all, by posting, basically helping promote better understanding of the lifestyle and its various facets.

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/2/2005 1:35:48 AM)
quote: Of course, and logically so. It made the transition much smoother, though I admit to being disoriented for a minute or two when I saw your name had changed. However, maybe Pink's entire reason for switching to a new profile was to gain a new sense of identity, or to update and refresh a changing identity. We all have various reasons as to why we do the things we do, and I'm sure none of us would want to force our sense of propriety on anyone else, since we're all, by posting, basically helping promote better understanding of the lifestyle and its various facets. NakedOnMyChain i guess for me, nicks just lose their appeal after awhile. i did use the same picture (though Men i rejected as "pinkpleasures" have written again, LOL) and i change my font when i morph nicks, but i always disclose it's me in the Introduction Section. i know people who post frequently will recognise me; and newcomers and occassional posters are unaffected by my changes. My nick and font are highly personal. Someday i may find the perfect one, but atm, i lose interest in them after awhile, and need to rewrite my profile anyway. candystripper

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/2/2005 8:59:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper i guess for me, nicks just lose their appeal after awhile. <snip> My nick and font are highly personal. Someday i may find the perfect one, but atm, i lose interest in them after awhile, and need to rewrite my profile anyway. Hmmmmm... oh well. I must say I haven't been looking at this particular board for a long time, but when I saw the OP was pinkpleasures and saw the title I just HAD to look [:D] It took me until posts #13 and especially #15 (that's when I looked at candystripper's profile... what the hey, I'm slow tonight!) to realize who candystripper is. So whatever you are calling yourself, look again at Mercnbeth's reply, it is concise and to the point and I agree with it 100%. Some people know and others don't that you also chose to end our "friendship", I think because you did not want to listen to the advice I was trying, as a friend, to give to you. It was not what you wanted to hear. Again, read Mercnbeth's reply to you. Does this mean pinkpleasures (and that font) is going away? [:D]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:06:56 AM)
In the end I'm wondering WHY did you create this thread? You didn't like what someone else did, you thought their reasons unjustified, and you ended the relationship. You asked everyone for their perspectives and thoughts. ANY thought that was along the lines of "well maybe you should look at it this way..." or "it's not all about you" you pretty much ignored or disregarded.

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:22:03 AM)
quote: Some people know and others don't that you also chose to end our "friendship", I think because you did not want to listen to the advice I was trying, as a friend, to give to you. It was not what you wanted to hear. Again, read Mercnbeth's reply to you. cellogrrrlMK First, let me say, i cannot speak in detail about the matter referred to in the Op due to the other party's right to privacy. i did not end the friendship without first considering whether i could accept this behavior, and found that no, i could not. The Op asks one question: do you feel honor has a place in friendship? We may all define "honor" differently, but i did not think that would be an impediment to a discussion of the matter. The other party referred to in my Op post was mentioned because (1) i felt sad about what had happened and (2) i felt that a lack of honor led to the demise of the friendship. No one but the two of us knows what transpired, and no one can speak with authority as to which of us is "in the wrong". It is not the purpose of this thread to examine all aspects of interpersonal conflict; rather, to answer the question "does honor play a role in friendship". It is a generic question. i feel it does, as do others who have posted here. As for cellogrrrlMk's claim that "i" ended "our" friendship; i don't think it is a proper subject for discussion on the boards. However, i point readers to the following posts: http:http://www.collarchat.com/m_193065/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#194509 http:http://www.collarchat.com/m_193065/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#194509 http:http://www.collarchat.com/m_193065/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#194509 (i have had some trouble, setting in these URL's so people could click on them. The thread where they occurred was known as "Insults and Flaming vs. Good Communication". You can locate the posts made about me by cellogrrrlMk by using "pinkpleasures" as the search term and "cellogrrlmK" as the author, or by searching for the Op post and reading through a page or two.) i have no rancor towards cellogrrrlMK or the other party mentioned in the Op. It appears that, yes, most people agree friendship is a matter of importance and must be carried on with honor. i listed some of cellogrrrlMK's posts in response to her assertion that "i ended our friendship because i would not accept her advice". IMO, cellogrrrlMK ended the friendship, in public, on the boards, partially by trying to humiliate me by disclosing highly personal information. i found this a dishonorable thing to do. As for the post made by Mercnbeth; it was interesting but not really responsive to the Op question concerning honor. candystripper

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:30:07 AM)
Did you send her a post asking her to stop writing posts you don't like and then get upset when she didn't? You send those to me somewhat regularly.

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:42:31 AM)
quote: Did you send her a post asking her to stop writing posts you don't like and then get upset when she didn't? You send those to me somewhat regularly. LuckyAlbatross We are hardly corresponding on any sort of regular basis. However, we did have an agreement to discuss personal attacks in email and keep them off the boards, as a way of achieving a much-needed public truce. When you have not lived up to your agreement, i have reminded you of it...but it seems you have abandoned it altogether. i refuse to be drawn in again. It is obvious to anyone that you have some issue with me and the boards should not be littered with it. candystripper

Mercnbeth -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:58:06 AM)
quote: question concerning honor. To us honor and integrity are almost synonymous. Your friend had the integrity to be true to his/her beliefs to the point of risking losing your friendship. This "good friend" was lost simply because he/she said no to you, because you didn't agree with their reasons for saying no. Their integrity and honor wasn't compromised. You valued the "favor" more then the friend and your friend's integrity. Who's position more lacked "honor"?

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 7:13:55 AM)
quote: To us honor and integrity are almost synonymous. Your friend had the integrity to be true to his/her beliefs to the point of risking losing your friendship. This "good friend" was lost simply because he/she said no to you, because you didn't agree with their reasons for saying no. Their integrity and honor wasn't compromised. You valued the "favor" more then the friend and your friend's integrity. Who's position more lacked "honor"? Mercnbeth Mercnbeth, i generally agree with You...however, i would remind You that no one apart from myself and the other party knows what happened. It was NOT the point of the Op post to examine a single interpersonal conflict; it was to inquire as to whether or not members felt honor plays a role in friendship. It was a generic question, and i infer from Your posts that You concur. Honor does play a role. "Honor" may have different meanings to different people, but that is beyond the scope of the Op; it's a question for another day. Your thoughts on what i should have done are not made with all facts in hand, but in general, i agree with You that friendship also requires mutual respect and occassionally, forgiveness. candystripper

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 7:17:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper IMO, cellogrrrlMK ended the friendship, in public, on the boards, partially by trying to humiliate me by disclosing highly personal information. i found this a dishonorable thing to do. Oy... well, we won't discuss the private emails or IM's then. It's interesting how people have different perspectives of things to suit their own views (probably myself included). At least I did not backtrack and delete the majority of the posts I made in that thread. Heck, I didn't change mine at all in fact! [;)] At least I know who candystripper is, until she gets tired of that nick and changes it again, so I can avoid reading her posts. [:)] Mercnbeth wrote ANOTHER excellent reply, please read it. It IS relevant to the OP (did you realize when you say "Op post" you are saying "original post post?"); I just dont think you want to see it that way.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 7:53:29 AM)
quote: "Honor" may have different meanings to different people, but that is beyond the scope of the Op; it's a question for another day. I thought the thread was entirely about; "Honor Among Friends"? Look, I'm really bad at playing the "What's My Line" game of asking questions to find out the real story behind the question. But to me it doesn't matter, with one exception. If the favor that you asked was in the same context and consequence for a favor previously doe by your friend for you, then your expectation of acquiescence was reasonable. Other than that, your ex-friend was required by honor not to compromise his/her integrity.

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 9:04:08 AM)
quote: I thought the thread was entirely about; "Honor Among Friends"? Look, I'm really bad at playing the "What's My Line" game of asking questions to find out the real story behind the question. But to me it doesn't matter, with one exception. If the favor that you asked was in the same context and consequence for a favor previously doe by your friend for you, then your expectation of acquiescence was reasonable. Other than that, your ex-friend was required by honor not to compromise his/her integrity. Mercnbeth Firstly; as i have tried before, let me remind members the Op asks a generic question: do you believe there should be honor in a friendship? Second, i regret that my need to protect the other party's privacy prevents me from laying out the details; but i am not asking for validation of my choice. As i said in the Op, i asked out of a need i felt was quite high, and was refused on the grounds it would diminish the other party's self-importance in a minor way. Because i feel this was not an honorable response -- and no one, most of all the other party -- need see things in the same way i do -- i ended the friendship. i don't really know where the confusion comes from, but i never asked for anything which would impunge another person's integrity, and did not do so in the instant case. i value integrity; seek out friends whose sense of integrity is high; and am well-aware of all the lost opportunities a person with intergrity experiences. It is to me an esssential part of being a good person. For example, it is my sense of integrity which bars me from naming the other party, laying out the specifics and seeking validation of my choice. Regardless of the circumstances, the matter was handled privately and the other party's expectation of privacy, i feel, must be honored even though it is a parting of the ways. Now, to be absolutely clear, this thread does NOT concern a specific conflict; it concerns the question, "do you feel friendship requires honor?" i think part of the confusion may lie in the lack of a consensus as to what constitutes "honor" and while anyone's definition of the word would be interesting to read, that is really beyond the Op. However, i will provide the dictionary definition of "honor": http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary candystripper

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 9:07:30 AM)
You're talking a lot about yourself- me me me me me, I felt, I knew, I asked, I wanted, I decided... While I know you don't want to actually explain the issue, it doesn't sound like you considered even for one minute that perhaps THEIR feelings and perspectives might be valid.

luvdragonx -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 9:31:28 AM)
Ok, a few questions. 1. How do YOU define honor? 2. Why is someone else's definition of honor wrong or 'confusing' in relation to your OP? 3. If the question was generic, why the specific comments about your situation with your 'ex-friend'? 4. Why direct people to another thread if you don't want the contents of it discussed publicly? (by the way, I remember that one, and if you want to know what I thought about it, I'll tell you) You've stated at least twice that, regardless of another persons sense of honor, if their Honor doesn't match your Honor, they are dishonorable. Does that sound right? Seriously? That reads "If they don't do things how I like them done, we can't be friends". And while it is entirely your prerogative to operate that way, why be so surprised and disappointed when you lose friends? Because surely you know that many people will not do or see things the way you do. My kink is not your kink, my submission is not your submission, my coffee is not your coffee, my honor is not your honor. Period. Anopheles has a friend who is suffering (chronically) financial hardship. Because of his personal rules on loaning money to friends, he had to tell her 'no' one time when she asked. Guess what she did. She accepted that and is still his firend. That spoke volumes to me about HER character because she understood that when you ask someone for something that you are not otherwise entitled to, you stand the chance of being rejected - and that's fair. One of his reasons for not making a practice of loaning friends money is that he doesn't want money to come between them, be it by setting the precedent that he's an ATM machine, or by creating a situation where the other person could let him down. Those are his reasons and I find them honorable, not selfish or ego centric. Last question. What are you really looking for with the OP?

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 2:42:36 PM)
quote: Oy... well, we won't discuss the private emails or IM's then. It's interesting how people have different perspectives of things to suit their own views (probably myself included). At least I did not backtrack and delete the majority of the posts I made in that thread. Heck, I didn't change mine at all in fact! At least I know who candystripper is, until she gets tired of that nick and changes it again, so I can avoid reading her posts. Mercnbeth wrote ANOTHER excellent reply, please read it. It IS relevant to the OP (did you realize when you say "Op post" you are saying "original post post?"); I just dont think you want to see it that way. cellogrrlMK Thank you for respecting any confidences i placed in you you failed to reveal before on the boards...i cannot remember precisiely every convo we had...and i am sure there are things you could still cause me embarrassment or pain by revealing. i respect Mercnbeth as one of the wise voices here. In this case, because i cannot lay out the facts of a particular dispute, Mercnbeth have assumed the other party refused me out of His sense of integrity. This assumption is faulty; but i cannot seem to re-engage them in the original Op, which asks only "do you believe friendship includes honor". It is just a bit of message board nomenclature to refer to the "Op post"; don't let such small things become reasons to be annoyed. Frankly i think Honor, like other virtues, is a fixed point on the landscape. We may disagree as to it's exact perimeters, but i believe the word and adherence to it is a relatively well-understood matter. i'd have to pull the "Good Communication vs Flaming and Insults" thread and reread it to ascertain what, if any, posts i modified. i have changed posts before; for example, i copied a dictionary definition, forgetting we are not supposed to do so because of copyright issues, and had to return to a couple of posts and use the URL instead. i have also revised posts to remove direct insults to someone else; on reflection, i did not feel that was how i wished a post to read. Removing a sentence that may cause someone pain is not dishonorable to me. As to my habit of morphing my nick; so what? i always post the new nick in "Introductions" and a member who is familiar with me will recognise me easily; as you did. i do not do it for any nefarious reason; i just get to feeling i want a change. Lastly; why do you care (now) about what my font, etc., looks like? The options i make use of are also used by dark~angel and Oscar Hargeaves; and they may be used by you, if you choose. i find criticism of this nature dificult to understand; it seems as if conformity is over-valued as respects fonts, etc. The manner in which i present my message is not the message; for that, you must read what i have written. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 5:47:51 PM)
quote: Ok, a few questions. 1. How do YOU define honor? 2. Why is someone else's definition of honor wrong or 'confusing' in relation to your OP? 3. If the question was generic, why the specific comments about your situation with your 'ex-friend'? 4. Why direct people to another thread if you don't want the contents of it discussed publicly? (by the way, I remember that one, and if you want to know what I thought about it, I'll tell you) You've stated at least twice that, regardless of another persons sense of honor, if their Honor doesn't match your Honor, they are dishonorable. Does that sound right? Seriously? That reads "If they don't do things how I like them done, we can't be friends". And while it is entirely your prerogative to operate that way, why be so surprised and disappointed when you lose friends? Because surely you know that many people will not do or see things the way you do. My kink is not your kink, my submission is not your submission, my coffee is not your coffee, my honor is not your honor. Period. Anopheles has a friend who is suffering (chronically) financial hardship. Because of his personal rules on loaning money to friends, he had to tell her 'no' one time when she asked. Guess what she did. She accepted that and is still his firend. That spoke volumes to me about HER character because she understood that when you ask someone for something that you are not otherwise entitled to, you stand the chance of being rejected - and that's fair. One of his reasons for not making a practice of loaning friends money is that he doesn't want money to come between them, be it by setting the precedent that he's an ATM machine, or by creating a situation where the other person could let him down. Those are his reasons and I find them honorable, not selfish or ego centric. Last question. What are you really looking for with the OP? luvdragonx You are owed the courtesy of a reply, even though your post contained a bit of derision. 1. My sense of Honor is inseparable from other facets of my moral code. i am a devote Catholic, so i believe in the Ten Commandments and in the Church's teachings regarding venial and mortal sin...although i strongly disagree with the Church on certain issues. i would say Honor represents the quality that allows you to look in the mirror and like the person you see. It is in honesty; returning the exra $10 to the cashier no matter how poor you are. It is in compassion...holding the door for the mom struggling with a baby stroller or volunteer work with the illiterate. It is in Integrity, so that people around you can repose their trust in you without anxiety. It is all these things, and much more. Perhaps you should start a thread on what constitutes Honor...other people's responses would be interesting reading. 2. No one else's sense of Honor was at issue in the Op post. i cannot say this any more plainly. 3. On the contrary, no one was identified as the other party to the dispute referred to in the Op post, nor will i identify them. As i have said, this thread is not about all forms of interpersonal conflict. Again, perhaps You might wish to start such a thread. 4. i directed people to a thread which caused the end of one of my friendships, to set the record straight as to what happened. i was accused of ending a friendship because i did not want to take someone's advice. This is silly on its face; advice by its nature may or may not be taken. The fact is, amoung other things, the other party had revealed personal information about me on the boards. If i had not ended that friendship, i can only assume any further convos were also fodder for the boards. That is just unacceptable to me. Obviously, my friends are a diverse group. People from my law school days; from my Masters' Program, from my years of litigation, from BDSM, including Men who are poly, sadistic, or otherwise not suited to me as a Dom or Master. Additionally i prize my friendships with submissives and slaves. Such a group does not react to each of life's dilemmas in the same way. What they have in common is a Moral Code which i generally agree with, and mutual respect exsts between us. Your story about Anopheles -- though i feel it was wrong to disclose personal information about your friend without His prior consent -- left me sad. i have had some contact with Him and find Him to be a pleasant person, someone i'd probably like to know better. It is always distressing that someone you like is suffering. i hope for better days for Him. i do not find money a gauge by which i choose my friends. Some are quite well-to-do; some are desparately poor. Money is a vehicle for creature comforts, not the measure of anyone's worth. i can certainly understand self-preservation and a fear of recriminations might support a decision not to furnish money. As to your last question: i am mystified why people are having trouble understanding the question in the Op post. The question is "does honor play a role in your friendships?" What is so vague about that? camdystripper

mnottertail -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:23:36 PM)
soooooooooooooooooo did you think I was long in coming.................... no dictionary for the wicked and the righteous dont need any...... See, the OP of another thread will remain anonymout until he she comes to light by the very diatribe I am willing to respond to, in such a way the matter can be couched that I have been hurt and anyone else is an asshole.............please see anybody who has ever posted in my favor or disdained me in a reply............If you are confused about the intense ramification and life changing attributes of this post, I have a way out.....although in vulgar language I said in a prior post while the dictionary was available, that latin can be used to amalgamate a procipitous tumult among the populous and cast it into the throes of extasy thus: Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur. I am finally at the end of my being in this matter and cannot add one whit of sensibilty and must let my words speak for themselves. WTF? is this gonna be it? ok, Ron we have communicated something of significance to each other today.

windchymes -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:28:50 PM)
I'm not making any judgements against any individual here, because I don't know all the facts of the drama behind all this, nor do I want to. The topic raised in the OP is about honor and friendship. Of course friends should treat each other honorably. They should not hit on each other's girlfriends or boyfriends. They should not steal money from the other's purse. They should not dish dirt or spread gossip about the other. If they hear gossip, they should come to the other's defense. But playing the honor card to manipulate or "guilt" another person into doing something that compromises their own values is NOT honorable. I would call it dishonorable to EXPECT someone I thought of as my friend to do something that they really do not want to do. A 'true' friend accepts the other as they are, and with maturity comes the realization that, just because someone else's values do not match your own does not mean that they are not worthwhile values. In fact, I believe there is more honor in being true to ones own values rather than compromising them to please another. And, unless any one individual's armor is totally untarnished, they should not tut-tut over a chink in another's armor. windchymes

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honor Amoung Friends (11/3/2005 6:40:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes They should not hit on each other's girlfriends or boyfriends. Those rules aren't quite so solid in poly or open poly situation :) quote: If they hear gossip, they should come to the other's defense. Actually we find that doing so makes the problem worse and lets people think that a) there's something that needs defending (this is rarely ever the case) b) the person can't handle themselves (this is even rarer)

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