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RE: Gang-bang related - Emotionally destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:08:33 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I think this issue is one purely subjective to the individual's mind and largely based on our how are gender-based sexualities are influenced by society.


Bingo. Which is part of what kajirae are "supposed" to be deconditioned from, though it frequently just takes the same form as all those "forced cock-sucker" threads out there: external authority liberates from the feeling of responsibility, which enables core behaviors to be expressed more freely (albeit in the confines of the control exerted by such an external authority).

Not intended as an ad-blip, but that's one of the places we can learn from each other.

quote:

If a woman were able to re-educate herself and find value and pride in being sexually attractive and desired by all those men, it would be a positive experience as opposed to something potentially negative stemming from this feeling of being used and devalued.


While it's possible for her to re-educate herself, it seems far more in line with various factors of their makeup to have the M-type be the catalyst for that transformation. I'm thinking it also has something to do with the distinction between identifying the nature of the relationship in a specific way (e.g. M/s), and identifying oneself in a specific way (e.g. slave). The latter lends itself more readily to realigning one's perceptions.

As you say, a guy that "scores" (the term itself shows our positive view of it) with a lot of ladies will take that as a credit. A gal that does the same, frequently won't. Which, I think, comes back to the commoditization of the pussy. Simply put, historically, pussy is traded for long term financial commitment, and it's a more classic feminine strategy (in line with group harmony, etc.) to try to devalue the competition (expel them from the group) than to boost oneself (which isolates oneself from the group). Social sciences show that men learn the notion of "high quality pussy" (a.k.a. good girls) versus "low quality pussy" (a.k.a. sluts, whores, etc.) from women in the first place. By lowering the subjective value of those who aren't pricing themselves artificially, a DeBeers-style sort of monopoly arises, and the "good girls" have just eliminated some very hard competition. (This is the analysis given by a radical feminist, by the way, not by a man.)

Of course, after a while, it becomes part of the culture, and nobody knows why they do it anymore, except that "it's proper" and all of that, just like BDSM is "sick" and sex is "dirty" and so forth. Which is interesting, as cultures where female financial status was independent of the man (e.g. Canaan) did not stigmatize promiscuity, prostitution, sex in all its varied forms, and so forth. In short, where there's no need to compete, there's no devaluation.

quote:

I'm just speaking hypothetically and theoretically that it doesn't have to be way the it is.


Indeed. If memory serves, edana commented that one of the more liberating things about being collared by Leonidas was the ability to let go with other men, without worrying about how they would view her in the morning, etc. Sometimes, one set of chains can displace another, although cultural reengineering is what's really needed.

That, of course, happens on the full moon after the first flying pig has been shot down by a snowball from hell.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:13:30 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea

I think because a woman's entire body (including the brain) is connected with her sexual organs, (when we orgasm it's the entire body that stiffins up and tingles), and men only have the stuff hanging away from their body (penis and scrotum) that stiffin up and tingle...the two heads are quite a distance apart.


Bullshit.

The glans is an oversized clitoris, and in fact mutates from clitoris to glans at a certain foetal stage. The difference is that men have a longer refractory period than women, and a lower tolerance for prolactin (which is released during orgasm). Proper technique allows men to have the same quality and quantity of orgasm as women.

Women complicate something physical due to cultural indoctrination (a.k.a. rearing).

(Did I read you correctly there, mistoferin?)

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to chickpea)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:15:26 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

There was no "Wow hot girl" mentality that some people are trying to pass off.


And who's trying to pass that off as being the standard of gangbangs?

Certainly not me unless you wanted to make some gross misinterruptation of my speculation on the subject...


Nooo not you! Actually my rant wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I'm sorry if it came off that way.



Just checking

It's all good in the hood

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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:18:40 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Women complicate something physical due to cultural indoctrination (a.k.a. rearing).

(Did I read you correctly there, mistoferin?)

Health,
al-Aswad.



Yup, I think you pretty much got it. Women process sexual acts differently due to that conditioning.

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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:19:11 PM   
fire6brand


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Not something to enter lightly. Damaging if one or both are not strong enough for the reality of it. If they're good psychologically, hawt. After all it's nothing you haven't done before *if negotiated properly*, it's just more of it for a lot longer ;)




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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:20:10 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

so you are saying that it is sexually (without the aid of various toys and gizmos) impossible for a woman to use (use in a derogatory sense) a man sexually? I kinda agree.


Scary anecdote...

Ars' mother, a nurse, commented in the context of the difficulties you're refering to: "Load of crap. If you know the vessels to push, he'll get hard in no time." I did not need to know that she knew that, but my trauma aside, the other point is that it's not as if we don't generally respond well to a warm, wet mouth wrapped 'round our shafts, regardless of whether we're willing to respond or not. (Similarly, many women will have involuntary responses during rape, which is one of the causes of conflicted feelings and additional trauma afterwards.)

Three women raped a man and videotaped it up here (as in, physical violence and sex).

The judge let them go afterwards on account of "he got hard, so he wanted it."

Your prejudice is a dangerous one, variation; let it go.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Gang-bang related - Emotionally destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:23:22 PM   
MadRabbit


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Good to see you posting again Aswad

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:28:05 PM   
Lynnxz


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Not to be rude Aswad, but personally I have no interest at all in being 'reeducated' into being perfectly happy in letting multiple people fuck me at once. It has nothing to do with society's view of me, if I gave a shit about that, I wouldn't be in the job that I currently have, I would have a better car, because I certainly can afford it... it just doesn't matter all that much to me.

There's a difference to me in 'I can't do this, because society would look down on me' and 'I'm not going to do this, because I don't want to, I don't agree with it, and it just holds no interest for me' Is there some influence from society here? eh, a bit. I've gone through so many damn medical courses, I've seen more than my fill of skanky std pictures, and that's something I'd like to avoid.

Granted, we may just be coming from completely different point of views, I have no interest in the gorean type of philosophy- but I've seen this before, they guy wants a threesome, or he wants a gangbang, the female doesn't and the guy then tries to justify his wants... she's being closeminded, she's being stiff, whatever. Who cares? I'll be as closeminded as I like, if it doesn't appeal to me, it's probably never going to, and the silly little arguments are just going to irritate me.

Trying to push and beg for a woman to submit to a gangbang... it's going to blow up in your face- unless she just wants to in the first place.


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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:28:38 PM   
Wickad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

(snipped for brevity)

  She said they all went at different speeds- totally engrossed in themselves and she couldn’t get a rhythm going thus basically being a vessel.
 
The bottom line was “some things are best left as fantasies”.


This was the main reason for my disatisfaction with the whole thing.  It did not have a lot to do with social conditioning (as some have suggested) but rather a lot to do with my sexual needs not being met.

Wickad

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:35:31 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
There's a difference to me in 'I can't do this, because society would look down on me' and 'I'm not going to do this, because I don't want to, I don't agree with it, and it just holds no interest for me' Is there some influence from society here? eh, a bit. I've gone through so many damn medical courses, I've seen more than my fill of skanky std pictures, and that's something I'd like to avoid.


Hey, rock on with your bad self.

I hope you continue to find no appeal in gangbangs if that is the decision that you as an individual come to about the direction of your future sex life.

I have a few things that I am never ever gonna change about myself, but I do realize that society and my religous upbringing are what planted the seeds of such personal morality.

I don't think Aswad (or myself) for that matter is trying to convert all the woman in the world into perfect Jenna Jameson porcelain dolls, but just simply stating a theory as to what causes the behavior and how it could hypothetically different.

If you want to take that information and continue to be monogamous with a disdain of having all your holes plugged, I say "High Five!"

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:35:36 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

Sexual and emotional abuse has ruined my life.[snip]Without love on both sides sex of any kind is emotionally damaging for me.[snip]


[...] It didn't ruin my life.  Only I can ruin my life.  My dad is dead and gone, but it would be easy to have the abuse live well past the abuser. I can relate to the situation, but your sentiment is utterly alien.




I don't know if you noticed, but you use the active voice, while she used the passive.

That's a recurring difference (generally speaking, there are exceptions) between those who cope well and those who cope badly. With the exception of cases where such a speech pattern has been passed on (usually due to abuse in some earlier generation), this generally indicates that the person has internalized the passive role of victim, while the active voice pattern expresses empowerment and rejection of that role.

I've no idea whether changing the speech pattern can be therapeutic in changing the thought pattern.

But I do know that I admire someone who can be the one who experienced something shitty, rather than just being the one to whom something shitty was done. Being the one in control of one's life, even when events occur that one isn't in control of, is admirable in any (wo)man, and all too rare. Only the one that was there can move on; the one it was done to, is just stuck on some level.

So, kudos.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:37:05 PM   
Lynnxz


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From: Atlanta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

(snipped for brevity)

  She said they all went at different speeds- totally engrossed in themselves and she couldn’t get a rhythm going thus basically being a vessel.
 
The bottom line was “some things are best left as fantasies”.


This was the main reason for my disatisfaction with the whole thing.  It did not have a lot to do with social conditioning (as some have suggested) but rather a lot to do with my sexual needs not being met.

Wickad



Good point.. if there's 4 of you, and I still don't get off by the end of the night? Yeahhhh... Not impressed with anyone at this point. ^_^


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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:40:00 PM   
Missokyst


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Once again it comes down to knowing what you want  And not accepting something simply to fit into a role or a relationship. 
This multi stuff is not for everyone.  Before getting into it people should be aware there may be unexpected consequences.  Know thyself.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

personally I have no interest at all in being 'reeducated' into being perfectly happy in letting multiple people fuck me at once. It has nothing to do with society's view of me,

There's a difference to me in 'I can't do this, because society would look down on me' and 'I'm not going to do this, because I don't want to,
.

Trying to push and beg for a woman to submit to a gangbang... it's going to blow up in your face- unless she just wants to in the first place.


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:40:53 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

She is playing the part way too well and is no longer HIS private slut.


She's his, and she's a slut.

He's found that he's got a top-class Jaguar, rather than a Toyota.

The only problem is if his confidence is tied up in illusions about being the only one with a licence.

quote:

she couldn’t get a rhythm going thus basically being a vessel.


Which actually gets some people white-hot.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 6/26/2008 9:20:20 PM >


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:42:20 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup, I think you pretty much got it. Women process sexual acts differently due to that conditioning.


Thanks for confirming that.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Gang-bang related - Emotionally destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:44:09 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Good to see you posting again Aswad


Thanks, MadRabbit. I've missed you, too.

Just needed a break from the drama and reruns for a while.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:46:50 PM   
variation30


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

so you are saying that it is sexually (without the aid of various toys and gizmos) impossible for a woman to use (use in a derogatory sense) a man sexually? I kinda agree.


Scary anecdote...

Ars' mother, a nurse, commented in the context of the difficulties you're refering to: "Load of crap. If you know the vessels to push, he'll get hard in no time." I did not need to know that she knew that, but my trauma aside, the other point is that it's not as if we don't generally respond well to a warm, wet mouth wrapped 'round our shafts, regardless of whether we're willing to respond or not. (Similarly, many women will have involuntary responses during rape, which is one of the causes of conflicted feelings and additional trauma afterwards.)

Three women raped a man and videotaped it up here (as in, physical violence and sex).

The judge let them go afterwards on account of "he got hard, so he wanted it."

Your prejudice is a dangerous one, variation; let it go.

Health,
al-Aswad.



were the women attractive?

a lot hinges on this fact.


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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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RE: Gang-bang related - Emotionally destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 8:51:19 PM   
crouchingtigress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Good to see you posting again Aswad


how long do i have to be gone before i get a welcome back?

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RE: Gang-bang related - Emotionally destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:00:40 PM   
slavegirljoy


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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Good to see you posting again Aswad


how long do i have to be gone before i get a welcome back?


Let me be the first to welcome you back.  BTW, just how long have you been gone?
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:16:40 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Not to be rude Aswad, but personally I have no interest at all in being 'reeducated' into being perfectly happy in letting multiple people fuck me at once.


You weren't rude, and I would be fine with it if you had been.

But did I say that you needed to be reeducated? No.

Surgeon's general: if doing X hurts, don't do X.

quote:

I've gone through so many damn medical courses, I've seen more than my fill of skanky std pictures, and that's something I'd like to avoid.


I can sympathize. A just-turned-MD buddy of mine spent his summer in the skin ward, which is where the STD folks go, and he apparently felt the need to share (vent?) what he saw, and I've seen some that were... not nice. Certainly, it's not something I'd want for me or mine. Which is why I insist on condoms. A man's failure to comply with that requirement constitutes the immediate forfeiture of his penis (I have sharp knives).

I've no illusions about wrestling 7-8 guys off her. But once the first wang goes flying off, or the first jugular starts spurting, I can pretty much guarantee that the rest are going to go limp in a hurry. And I wouldn't leave anyone with any illusions of their own about my commitment to their compliance with my safety requirements for her. Nor would I be absent if there were a group going at it.

quote:

Granted, we may just be coming from completely different point of views


Probably not. Even in a culture that doesn't stigmatize a sex act, not all people will do it.

Just because I have yet to find more than three sex acts that disgust me, doesn't mean there are only three sex acts that don't appeal to me, or that there are only three sex acts that I won't do. I'm not disgusted by the prospect of pulling a Mr. Hands, but I'd not do it, because I don't find it hot, and because it takes tons of effort to do it right. That would be analogous to how you feel about gangbangs, I imagine.

Similarly, I don't eat anything pickled (apart from Jalapeños). Not because I find those foods to be disgusting (I don't), but because the taste, smell and texture are outside my preference. If I order a sandwich and find them in there, I'll ponder whether it's worth the hassle to pick them out, and if it isn't, I'll just eat it.

Preferences are good.

But not all distaste or refusal is preference.

I usually don't find African women very attractive. A matter of facial shape. They're not my preference. I do find Asian women very attractive. Again, a matter of facial shape. They're in my preference. No social issues, no prejudices, just a preference when it comes to appearance.

When some Klansman or Neo-Nazi doesn't find either one attractive, that's not preference.

That's simply rearing, indoctritation, prejudice, or whatever you want to call it.

And mainstream society has as many of these as any radical group.

Is it now clearer where I was going with my post?

quote:

I'll be as closeminded as I like, if it doesn't appeal to me, it's probably never going to, and the silly little arguments are just going to irritate me.


Irritating you was never my intention.

Nor did I mean to imply that it had to appeal to you.

Nor do I object to you being closeminded (but it's not my preference ).

quote:

Trying to push and beg for a woman to submit to a gangbang... it's going to blow up in your face- unless she just wants to in the first place.


I don't push and beg for anything. Either a woman is in my bed as a peer, and is to be respected as such, or she is at my feet as anything but, and will be treated accordingly, or I'm topping or bottoming in a session with her, and we'll stick to whatever we have discussed up front in terms of limits and so forth.

None of which has anything to do with Gorean philosophies and culture.

I'm myself, before anything else, a human individual.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 80
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