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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:19:54 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I don't think Aswad (or myself) for that matter is trying to convert all the woman in the world into perfect Jenna Jameson porcelain dolls, [snip]


Goodness, no. Stepford is my nightmare.

I offer a quote from one of my favorite authors, rest his soul:

"There are only strong men in my family. The women ate all the weak ones."

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:28:59 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

were the women attractive? a lot hinges on this fact.


No idea. The guy was scared shitless, beaten up, blown til he got hard enough to ride, used by all three, then crawled to the ER. Where I come from, that's not typically a sign that a vanilla guy has been enjoying himself, and not the kind of scenario the BDSM types generally videotape in a public place with no aftercare. For all I know, they could've looked like Selene, Fröy and Venus, yet I'd still ascribe more weight to the fact that the guy needed emergency medical care afterwards than the fact that he got hard.

If you're inclined to assume that a blowjob won't get you hard against your will, pay a gay prostitute to test your theory. (Your profile lists you as straight.) Chances are, you will discover that it takes a fair bit of concentration to prevent your body from having a response to the physical stimulation. Then step into the ring with a boxer and see if you can summon up that level of concentration while being beat up.

Hint: there's an industry built around this effect, targetted at men with certain kinds of erectile dysfunction.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:35:07 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup, I think you pretty much got it. Women process sexual acts differently due to that conditioning.


The only "conditioning" I can recall growing up was that we were to respect our bodies.  Pregnancy was to be avoided until marriage lest one was left raising a child with no father".    I don't seem to recall anyone saying sex as "dirty".  As far as women being afraid of their sexuality... now THAT's bullshit.  It's a shame we have to keep it hidden lest we be deemed over aggressive because we made the first move.  So long as there is the ideology for a guy to want "a lady in the boardroom and a whore in the bedroom", the charade will continue.   Makes me wonder who is conditioned more?  Life goes on and I don't see it changing soon.  But if it makes the guys happy to think they have "cultivated our sexuality".. well- what's another fantasy .

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:36:46 PM   
tormentedtears


Posts: 12
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The gentleman i hope to call my Dom someday has had me fucked by multiple others.  He was in the room the whole time.  He and the attendees were in conversation for most of the event, discussing reactions, thoughts, technique, etc.  The event was also photographed heavily.  It pleasures my Gentleman to view these photos, and verbally relive the moments with me.  He praises me for my obedience.  It pleases me greatly to give Him these experiences (it has happened on more than one occassion). 

It is my belief that a slave is just that, a slave... that one must choose wisely their Dom becauses His wishes will become your commands.  He discusses His kinks with me and let's me know these things WILL happen at some point for me.  If i had any reservation, His pride and praise of my obedience quickly banishes it. 

As for danger... yes i'm sure some danger exists, but the men He invites are screened and He is very well known and respected in the 'community'.  i always felt He was in control at all times.  So i will say i had a great time and cannot wait to do it again for Him. 

As for my feelings of self-worth... i feel as sexy and desireable as i did in my 20s.  Life is Good.

_____________________________

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truths beyond itself.


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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 9:51:27 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
The only "conditioning" I can recall growing up was that we were to respect our bodies.  Pregnancy was to be avoided until marriage lest one was left raising a child with no father".    I don't seem to recall anyone saying sex as "dirty".  As far as women being afraid of their sexuality... now THAT's bullshit.  It's a shame we have to keep it hidden lest we be deemed over aggressive because we made the first move.  So long as there is the ideology for a guy to want "a lady in the boardroom and a whore in the bedroom", the charade will continue.   Makes me wonder who is conditioned more?  Life goes on and I don't see it changing soon.  But if it makes the guys happy to think they have "cultivated our sexuality".. well- what's another fantasy .


Well you are answering for yourself...but it certainly isn't the experience of all women. I personally remember a lot of conditiioning...but then again I was raised a strict Catholic, went to Catholic school and Church 8 times per week. Thank God I've recovered but then again I was never the kind of gal that allowed my opinions of anything to be formed by anyone other than myself. I believe that there are MANY women who are afraid of or have no real understanding, if any, of their sexuality. Many women whose sexuality is cultivated by the men in their lives. Many men who want a lady in the boardroom and a whore in the bedroom...and I'm personally ok with that.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 10:05:16 PM   
SurrenderForMe


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I'm glad you respect your subs limit, but the answer is available with her.  Why don't you ask her?

There are any number of reasons.  Monogamous personality would be a big one.  If you are only able to bond with one person at a time, multiples feel wrong if nothing else.  Part of the monogamous mindset can be, that if someone cares for you, they would not want to share you, they would want to treasure you.  If they share you, it says they don't care, they don't respect you, you are dirty.  Other reasons, religious background, previous damage, the female/male dynamic and perception (self or outside). 

People, not just subs, will do things to please the people they care for, in spite of potential damage.  That is how people get hurt.  It is a real bitch to know yourself.  It is really easy to wander into something you can't handle and get hurt.

Being a supportive participant means nothing if the object is not able to connect with it. 



(in reply to FRSguy)
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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 10:09:04 PM   
WyldHrt


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(in reply to SurrenderForMe)
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RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 10:22:07 PM   
variation30


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Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

No idea. The guy was scared shitless, beaten up, blown til he got hard enough to ride, used by all three, then crawled to the ER. Where I come from, that's not typically a sign that a vanilla guy has been enjoying himself, and not the kind of scenario the BDSM types generally videotape in a public place with no aftercare. For all I know, they could've looked like Selene, Fröy and Venus, yet I'd still ascribe more weight to the fact that the guy needed emergency medical care afterwards than the fact that he got hard.


he sounds like a lil' trooper. how did he manage to get himself into this situation, I wonder.

quote:

If you're inclined to assume that a blowjob won't get you hard against your will, pay a gay prostitute to test your theory. (Your profile lists you as straight.) Chances are, you will discover that it takes a fair bit of concentration to prevent your body from having a response to the physical stimulation.


gonna have to pass - that'd kinda gay. however, I would like to think that if I put my mind to it, I could turn myself off with a bit of success.

quote:

Then step into the ring with a boxer and see if you can summon up that level of concentration while being beat up.


getting hurt when I'm not expecting it is a sure fire way to turn me off. the only time I've cancelled on sex half way through was when I my girlfriend nearly gouged my eye out groping around in the dark. the hard on went away rather promptly.

but back on to the original subject, in heterosexual sex, the guy can't *used* in the same way a woman can. physically and (especially) emotionally.


_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 10:48:11 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

how did he manage to get himself into this situation, I wonder.


The same way the ladies usually do: by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. After all, unlike the ladies, the lads aren't used to considering whether a given route will take us through places where one might be assaulted: dark parking lots, alleyways (my city is renowned for being mostly composed of those), and so forth.

The three didn't deny picking someone at random (i.e. from convenience).

The defense rested solely on the notion that an erection constituted after-the-fact consent on his part.

quote:

gonna have to pass - that'd kinda gay.


Which was the point of the exercise. You being straight, and the act being gay, makes it comparable.

quote:

however, I would like to think that if I put my mind to it, I could turn myself off with a bit of success.


Shall we see if someone will volunteer their girl to test that theory, then?

Just add some distraction, like getting your nuts slapped if you do get hard, or her biting... whatever.

quote:

getting hurt when I'm not expecting it is a sure fire way to turn me off. the only time I've cancelled on sex half way through was when I my girlfriend nearly gouged my eye out groping around in the dark. the hard on went away rather promptly.


Yup. Surprise will do that. What comes after being beaten up, is the interesting bit.

quote:

but back on to the original subject, in heterosexual sex, the guy can't *used* in the same way a woman can. physically and (especially) emotionally.


Again... are you willing to test that theory if one, two or three of the ladies are?

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/26/2008 11:47:02 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

The defense rested solely on the notion that an erection constituted after-the-fact consent on his part

Gotta go with Aswad on this one. Men CAN be raped by women and the existence of an erection has nothing to do with consent.

Same goes for females who have physical reactions while being raped. Does it happen? Sometimes. Does it change the fact that it was rape? Hell, no.
[/hijack]

That said, (*for me) I would expect my Dom to know the difference between pushing limits and forcing something he wanted, despite the fact that it would most likely damage me and destroy our relationship. Such a thing is unique in every relationship, and there is no "right" answer here. The only answer is what is right for a particular relationship.
Just sayin

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 2:29:19 AM   
endearing


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Here's a scenario to consider:

Mentally how well would one handle the idea of being accepting of having sexual intercourse with multiple men over the course of a few minutes, an hour, hours, a day -- only to find out later an STD was transmitted. And what if the STD is AIDS -- in the process of waiting to die, could it be anything more than absolute mental anguish.

Just my opinion here:  How could there actually be a presence of caring if one person would allow or expect another to take such a risk. 

(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 2:50:21 AM   
endearing


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In addition to the previous post:  The use of condoms does not always provide 100% safety.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 5:22:51 AM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: endearing

Here's a scenario to consider:

Mentally how well would one handle the idea of being accepting of having sexual intercourse with multiple men over the course of a few minutes, an hour, hours, a day -- only to find out later an STD was transmitted. And what if the STD is AIDS -- in the process of waiting to die, could it be anything more than absolute mental anguish.

Just my opinion here:  How could there actually be a presence of caring if one person would allow or expect another to take such a risk. 



How could I actually care about my girl if I wanted her to take on the risk of being in a car accident just so she can get me a bottle of Coke at the grocery store one night?

That sounds pretty selfish when I put it like that, huh?

It always come back to the big fear of the STDs and the moral agenda that if we don't lock ourselves and our partners in a giant plastic bubble, then we are somehow irresponsible and malicous.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to endearing)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 5:27:28 AM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup, I think you pretty much got it. Women process sexual acts differently due to that conditioning.


The only "conditioning" I can recall growing up was that we were to respect our bodies.  Pregnancy was to be avoided until marriage lest one was left raising a child with no father".    I don't seem to recall anyone saying sex as "dirty".  As far as women being afraid of their sexuality... now THAT's bullshit.  It's a shame we have to keep it hidden lest we be deemed over aggressive because we made the first move.  So long as there is the ideology for a guy to want "a lady in the boardroom and a whore in the bedroom", the charade will continue.   Makes me wonder who is conditioned more?  Life goes on and I don't see it changing soon.  But if it makes the guys happy to think they have "cultivated our sexuality".. well- what's another fantasy .


It never fails to amaze me how naive and clueless some of your opinions are.

You can obfuscate it to keep your own perspective of superiority over men, but to really think that there isn't a degree of social pressure for women to limit their sexual partners and not engage in casual, meaningless sex is....well....naive and clueless.

Further more, I don't really see this as an issue of men "cultivating" the sexuality of women. In my experiences, I find it's women who put the most negative pressure and do the most "cultivating", because they are the one's who label their own gender as "sluts" and socially outcast them.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/27/2008 5:28:13 AM >


_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 5:28:09 AM   
crouchingtigress


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quote:

in the process of waiting to die,


you dont know any folks with AIDS i am guessing?

_____________________________


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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 6:34:53 AM   
StrangerThan


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I'm not sure where all the gangbang/sharing threads are coming from right now, but honestly, there is no pat answer for this type of question, whether it be gangbang related or sharing. It's not like rule number 431 in the Dom handbook that in order to be truly domly one must or must not. It's a people thing. It's a relationship thing. It's a knowing your submissive, knowing her buttons, knowing yourself, knowing which buttons to push and when and which to tease, and which to simply leave alone. As I wrote in another thread, I've shared my submissive before and will again. That doesn't mean that statement applies to every situation or every relationship I've ever had.

People are fragile at times in "normal" areas even though they may be one of the kinkiest people on earth in the right circumstance. Some are also stronger than you might expect in those same areas even though during every day life they may come across as completely different.

It boils down to a couple of things for me. Seeing her fucked is not why I do it. It's not a porn type thing, not a get-off kind of thing. It is also not something that HAS to be. If you truly care about your submissive, finding the hot button things is usually good. Knowing what to do with them however is where the caring comes in. Just because a person has a particular type of fantasy or responds to it in session when you play with the concept with her/him doesn't mean that specific action should ever be taken. And the first person you have to ask whether or not they can handle it, isn't your submissive, it's you. Regardless of what you're trying to establish or want her to feel, if you can't deal with it, it will be destructive and damaging. Knowing you can handle it doesn't mean the relationship can or she can though. There are really three sides to consider and three sides to address. The you, her and the us of who you are. After care takes on a whole new meaning as well. You have to show her, not just tell her, show her in actions and not just words that the us of who you are is still whole.

And even then, there are ways to play with the response that never reach the actual stage of sharing. Shrugging here. There are people who will do what they want regardless of how it makes a submissive feel. In the realm of many relationships, it works because both need that kind of dynamic. When I think of what I want her to learn and what I want her to feel however, it is wrapped in the knowledge that I want her afterward, that no matter what, she still belongs. That means sometimes inducing elements that play with that type of need, but not necessarily realizing it if I think she will ultimately be hurt by it. After all, while we may take great pleasure in whipping her ass, reducing her at times to our own personal slut, treating her in ways that we would never allow anyone else to treat her, the intent is never to truly hurt.  I've always believed that the best submissive is one who knows her worth to you, knows her value, knows you need her as much as she needs you, and because of it, knows exactly what it is she gives you. There's an oftentimes over exagerated sense of submission as a gift. It is, but the true gift is the harmony that exists when it's right between the people, when both give what the other needs, take what they need, and do it within the boundaries of keeping the relationship strong and complete and growing. Whether or not there are ever gangbangs or anyone is shared, if you truly care about each other, your acvtions should always follow those lines.

These types of threads draw comment from both sides in strict terms sometimes, those who do and will, and those who don't or can't. There's nothing wrong with either side if it works for the people. There is everything wrong with either side if one simply does it for themselves and not within the scope of building the relationship.

When I do share a submissive, it's not my desire to see her used or fucked that brings it about. It is something I see in her that I know if done right will make the bond between us stronger. And with me, it means keeping the control strong, keeping the sense of her safety strong regardless of what is done, keeping these sense of her and myself strong through it. Sometimes that's nothing more than letting someone watch her. Sometimes it's just the hint or suggestion of it in play. Sometimes it happens. There is no pat answer. The answer lies within you and your submissive.

My mantra has been for a long time that it's not so much what, but how. That "how" should always be encircled by your relationship because if you break it, you've lost what you cared about and no fantasy, no hot moment, no lesson to be taught is worth that. Again, just my 2 cents.

(in reply to MasterHermes)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 6:39:22 AM   
persephonee


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Well said.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 6:42:26 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline
You mention medical issues, but you don't seem to understand a woman's limits.  For some, having sex with six different men in a row could be very painful - even if they were careful.  Add to that any other "play" they might want, such as spanking, pinching, biting, and you could be running into definite bruising issues.  There is a big difference between being the penetrator and penetratee, especially if the men are pretty athletic in their thrusting.

Psychologically there could be many impacts.  Will it be only one at a time in private?  Or would it be a true gang, yelling encouragement to the one taking her, maybe all calling out humiliating names and jeers.  While some women might really get off on this it could severely damage others. 

It is one thing for a man to sit back and have a number of women all trying to please him.  Chances are that with a woman the men will be much more concerned with pleasing themselves.  Add a crowd element to that and things could easily get out of control and leave her savaged.  Some with a slave might use the excuse that since she is "only" a slave she should be willing to submit to anything demanded of her, yet it is the Master's job to protect His property.  Done under well controlled circumstances it might be a real turn on for everyone involved, but even one bad apple in the bunch can ruin her for good.  It can be hard to draw a line between what is consensual and when consensuality stops.  Try imagining your hole being used by a crowd rather than you using someone else's and it might make the picture more clear in your mind.




_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 7:54:35 AM   
doubleflash


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Emtional/ psychological damage is always possible with any intense stress. 

To drive a few stakes in the ground, I have zero experience with gangbangs, but long experience as a paramedic.  I'm not a shrink or an MD.  I'm guessing that a gangbang could be pretty stressful for the woman.

From my perspecitve as a 'medic, people involved in stressful situations can develop big emotional problems.  It doesn't matter how well prepared, supported or tough they are.  As far as I know, there is no way to anticipate who will develop stress-related problems or what those problems will be. 

Here's what I do know.  If a problem is going to crop up, it generally happens within a month or so after the event.  If the condition is recognized and treated, the patients often but not always get better.  There is a whole rainbow of symptoms: difficulty sleeping, mood swings, loss of libido and a few dozen more. 

In the 'medic community, we do "Critical Incident Debriefings" after particularly tough calls to let the people involved talk about their reactions.  Generally an MD or a shrink hangs out with us to spot people who are having problems.  So, we have built-in ways to cut off problems early.  In D/s situations, your results may vary.

For more information than you probably wanted, Google "acute stress disorder" or "post traumatic stress disorder". 

This stuff is real -- quite real.

(in reply to FRSguy)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Gangbang related - Emotionaly destructive sex. - 6/27/2008 8:05:20 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tormentedtears

The gentleman i hope to call my Dom someday has had me fucked by multiple others.  He was in the room the whole time.  He and the attendees were in conversation for most of the event, discussing reactions, thoughts, technique, etc.  The event was also photographed heavily.  It pleasures my Gentleman to view these photos, and verbally relive the moments with me.  He praises me for my obedience.  It pleases me greatly to give Him these experiences (it has happened on more than one occassion). 

It is my belief that a slave is just that, a slave... that one must choose wisely their Dom becauses His wishes will become your commands.  He discusses His kinks with me and let's me know these things WILL happen at some point for me.  If i had any reservation, His pride and praise of my obedience quickly banishes it. 

As for danger... yes i'm sure some danger exists, but the men He invites are screened and He is very well known and respected in the 'community'.  i always felt He was in control at all times.  So i will say i had a great time and cannot wait to do it again for Him. 

As for my feelings of self-worth... i feel as sexy and desireable as i did in my 20s.  Life is Good.


Please let us know if he collars you.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to tormentedtears)
Profile   Post #: 100
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