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Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:27:00 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits?  From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?  This may seem like a no brainer, or perhaps is much more complex than it seems.  There has been recent discussion that a slave gives up all in service, and that Master/Mistress takes up the responsibility of breaking those limits to the slave's betterment.  I do not know what my opinion is on the matter, but wanted to evoke discussion.  I will be happy to elaborate on the dynamic as far as I know it, but will not discuss what limits are involved. 

Thanks in advance for all the responses!  Please keep it positive and keep it fun! 

Best Regards,
lovingpet
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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:29:50 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings lovingpet,

it depends on the relationship. for me, yes, it does mean that in my own relationships. not necessarily for my betterment (although that could be at the top of the list), but for whatever reasons, and he takes responsibility for what happens to his property.

for many, it doesn't mean that - breaking a hard limit would be grounds for them to leave. ultimately, it is up to what you are comfortable with and what fulfills you.

respectfully,
a'ishah.


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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:32:33 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		When collared as a slave..... it means whatever said slave and the D-type have decided that it means. End of story.


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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:35:09 PM   
MamaDomme1


Posts: 377
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline 		I am a firm believer that all hard limits should be respected.  They are usually there for a reason.

My hard limits will always be hard limits...... whether in a relationship or not and I expect them to be respected.  And I give that same respect.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:42:20 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Yes I realize that I am owned and in a collar, but I still pee like everyone else, and usually, unless there's a special circumstance, I don't have to ask permission to do that. He expects me to be able to take care of the rudimentary....

With that said, I suppose I no longer have hard limits, that he can do what he so chooses and how he chooses. We tend to *gasp* discuss things and he actually asks for and values my opinions. There are things he does to me, that I would rather he didn't, and there are things I like it if he never did. However, those are not 'hard' limits.

He has, on occassion, decided that he wanted to explore things that were on my hardlimit list, and they are brought out from time to time, but not that regular a basis. My hard limit list is fairly short; but there are a few things even I won't do .

We manage to enjoy ourselves and he manages to push me rather effectively without challenging me with things that are serious Hard Limits.

PL




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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:44:38 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		There seems to be a lot of debate on this point.  In my opinion, limits should always be listened to.  For instance, if you were asked to do something illegal like rob a bank or shoot someone, could you really say you had no limits?  But if you were asked to have a bisexual encounter when you've never wanted to, would you do it?  (Or whatever it is that you're being asked to do.)  If you know that if you choose not to do it that the relationship would most likely end, would you change your limits? 

It's much easier for someone outside of your relationship to say that if you are a slave that immediately means that you have no hard limits at all.  Slaves still think and feel, and have rights to boundaries.  However, they may have consequences.  That's when you need to think about what is really most important to you; making the relationship work or sticking to your guns.  Only you know how important that particular limit is to you.


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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:45:19 PM   
MsLadySue


Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline 		I don't believe anyone should be put in a position where they have absolutely no say about what happens to them once they are owned. The slave is still a person and, in my opinion, has a right to have their hard limits respected.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:46:55 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

When collared as a slave, does this mean the slave has given up the right to have hard limits? 


I'm sure you will get a lot varying degrees of answers on this one, but from my perspective as a dominant, the absolution of hard limits is nothing more than semantical nonsense. However, when I use the phrase "hard limits", I am communicating things that can cause physical or psychological harm to a person and not limits such as "I won't get you a Coke after 8pm."

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
From the other side, when a slave has had ongoing hard limits, are they respected after taking this step?
 

Once again if we are talking about hard limits as things that can cause harm to a person, then the notion that they are not respected in a relationship is ludicrous and completely contradictive to the reality of what it takes to make a power based relationship work.

Saying "In my relationship, I can order my slave to cut out her spleen and eat it" might sound all cool and powerful and we might not be able to prove a negative to the statement as to discredit it, but you know...if you go your entire life without cutting out her spleen and making her eat it, because it will kill your slave, then what's the point of claiming that you can? (Other than to jack people around on Internet message boards, of course) And if you have never done it, then how do you know factually that you can?

So as I set before....mostly this is semantical nonsense where people narrate their relationships in a way that does not match the reality.

This is just my general opinion though. Your mileage may vary.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:54:54 PM   
IncarnateBeast


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Cali
Status: offline 		Just because I'm owned property doesn't mean I don't deserve to be respected. Master accepts that my hard limits are there for a reason (usually because of intense phobias) and he respects them. I'd never be in a relationship where I could be put into such danger. I don't believe that "breaking" hard limits is a good idea.. it breaks more than what it claims

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:55:32 PM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Raw spleen is only palatable with lots of Heinz ketchup.


CD

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:56:57 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

Raw spleen is only palatable with lots of Heinz ketchup.


CD


Don't forget the mustard.

We'll eventually get to chainsaw massacres. These threads always go that route.

Just trying to save some time

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:57:50 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

Raw spleen is only palatable with lots of Heinz ketchup.


CD


Don't forget the mustard.

We'll eventually get to chainsaw massacres. These threads always go that route.

Just trying to save some time


you're so helpful! *pets the rabbit*

i'm not sure they MAKE enough heinz ketchup to dress up raw spleen, though.


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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:57:57 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

Raw spleen is only palatable with lots of Heinz ketchup.


CD

And yet you managed to stay off the amputation thread.  Demonstrating you are wiser than I am.


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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 2:59:40 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		DISCLAIMER : I don't actually think people in proclaimed "No Limits" relationships are eating spleens. Just conveying a general point

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:04:29 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

you're so helpful! *pets the rabbit*


Yeah, you know, why bother with all the foreplay and not just go right for the rhubarb?

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:06:39 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Not all people have limits apart from having no limitations.  It may sound strange or even pedantic to people who believe in limitations, but it is simply a different way of expressing intent.
 
I don't have limits - We have what we will not or cannot do.  For us it works much clearer and there are no blurry lines about pushing or breaking limits etc and so everything is respected.   As Thinking Kitten mentioned, it really comes down to the individual relationships and what you negociate/communicated from the start.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:09:47 PM   
mmsprecious


Posts: 84
Joined: 12/6/2006
Status: offline 		i think it depends. gee lets see....on the people involved, on what they agreed on before the collaring/ownership, on what the hard limit is and why it is a limit, the week everyone involved had before the scene that pushes a limit happens....
there's too much to really get a black and white answer here.

that being said, i have had some of my hard limits pushed and dropped with my Master. there may be more pushed and later dropped...there is one that i am pretty damned sure won't be and one i KNOW won't be. one is there because it's a past history thing for me. i wouldn't leave Him for it but it would really cause trust issues if it happened. one is a deal breaker for me. i'd say no and i would not be His slave anymore if He chose to push the issue.

as my Master said once, "I know how to break you, which buttons to push, which limits to push and how to push you so far you won't come back. but, why on earth would I want to do that?"

what's the point of breaking a toy?
the other side of the coin, let's see just what this toy can REALLY do!

it's a delicate balance.

Master Mike's precious

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:14:06 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		In the context of our relationship, I have no limts, I have requests that I make of my Owner with regard to my preferences and we have a contractual agreement about my health and safety (both physical and mental/emotional).

People will look at the concept of "no limts" and immediately fast forward to where that means danger and abuse and a BDSM free for all involving 17 buffalo and a chainsaw. I can see why people think this, but seriously ... in my context it simply couldn't be further from the truth. There is going to be some heavy edgy play between DV and I and that play will certainly take me right to the edge and beyond where I am comfortable. We will, and have .. played beyond where I would have "redded" with someone else.. except that isn't how we have play set up for us ... I can't "red out" .. or safeword. Just like I don't have the right to say ... "nah .. nipple clamps... never gonna happen with me Sir" ... I dont have the right to stop Him during play.

I don't have any limits with my Owner I place none on Sir because I don't need to. I trust Him and He has earned that trust again and again and again. I don't need to put up a brick wall with a danger sign saying "This far and no further" ... because Sir knows me, knows my previous experiences, knows my weaknesses and fear and desires, He also knows the fall out that would occur and is responsible enough to continue and deal with the consequences. For example, Sir knows I am terrified of canes, they have been a feature of prior relationships and they are now surrounded with negative connotations ... even just seeing one flood wme with negative emotions and fear - I have never had anything even vaguely approaching a positive experience with one, and could quite frankly jump for joy if I never had to feel one again. Now with *any* casual play partner .. it is *Crystal* clear that even the threat of a cane is not to be used, they aren't even to be hinted at or I am gone. With my Owner I have no such limit. He *knows* all the history, He knows how I will react and He knows there will be consequences to deal with if He uses them, I am in His power, if He wants to invoke all that (cos yanno me gibbering with fear is hot for Him) then He will, and I will submit to that.

There are some things that we both know (or certainly believe) our relationship couldn't survive. Those would be expressed as hard limits to some, but they are not laid down as limits for us. We dont think of them that way, we have put our cards on the table and we will see how that works for us. No where have I ever said .. X Y Z is never happening or I will go.

Limits are about control. With my Owner I need no control, I dont want any control, I trust Him to have all the control, all the power, all the time. I don't need limits because He is a trustworthy responsible Owner, who values His property.

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:16:24 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Limits are about control. With my Owner I need no control, I dont want any control, I trust Him to have all the control, all the power, all the time. I don't need limits because He is a trustworthy responsible Owner, who values His property.


But how many people do you believe actually will see this statement over the 'no limits' one?
Ya rock softness.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Hard Limits of the Owned Ones - 7/3/2008 3:17:55 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Limits are about control. With my Owner I need no control, I dont want any control, I trust Him to have all the control, all the power, all the time.


so well said :)


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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