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RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 2:43:03 PM   
ctsub2003


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		As a healthcare professional, i can honestly say people are meant to be omnivorous, it is so blatantly obvious, I can't believe we are debating it. Veganism is essentialy an artifical construct- if it were a century or two ago, or one lived in an extremely rural area, like the Bush in Alaska, hunting/fishing are a necessary part of life; I work in the medical field and have visited Jains in India (who consume an entirely vegan diet- not even onions nor potatoes are allowed). They have serious vitamin deficiencies. Of course, there are more options in the US for isotopes of meat- veggie burgers, dogs, tofurkey, lol, but by and large an entirely vegetarian diet is not realistic, nor desirable; That being said , I abhor cruelty to animals and I would like a better quality of meat- (i.e steroid free, with reasonably humane treatment of the animals, grazing, feedings or whatever). But I do not believe it is innately wrong to kill and consume animals. I eat meat, have no qualms about it. I have hunted, killed and skinned. To address an earlier comment, I think people become defensive, b/c they feel they are being judged; experience has taught them that vegans tend to be judgemental. True, I have met a few who weren't, but by and large, they feel the need to prosletyze and it angers them that the general population views them as lunatics on the fringes of society. Veganism is a personal choice, but it is poor reasoning to conclude that people who eat meat have more heath problems than people who don't- factors such as sample size, proportions of the population, and numerous other factors come into play. The Sardinians and Japanese have the longest life expectancies on the planet, both consume meat- the question isn't whether you should eat meat or not, but what kind of meat/what quality of meat should you consume?

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 2:58:01 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for writing that.

Also, I remember reading somewhere a year or so ago, an article about the consumption of animal protein and brain development. They had studied humans that had grown up vegan and those that hadn't. There was a marked difference in brain development.  I just cannot remember where I read it. One of the perils of reading so damned much.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to ctsub2003)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 3:36:08 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ctsub2003
As a healthcare professional, i can honestly say people are meant to be omnivorous, it is so blatantly obvious, I can't believe we are debating it.

I don't see a debate.  I see a handful of people honestly stating why they choose to live their own lives the way they do -- and everybody else getting all know-everything-y without referring to any data.

For example, a "health care professional" concerned about veganism might point out that one of the few sources of Vitamin B-12 is red meat... and the B-12 added to vegan food sources, like debittered yeast, may not be bioavailable.

A "health care professional" probably would not use the term "isotopes of meat."  Which isotopes were you referring to?  Do you mean that iodine-131 is better to eat than other weights of iodine, because it is used in nuclear medicine?

I'm sorry, ownedgirlie.  I appreciate your starting a thread because of something DJ and I said, so I'm trying to stick around some, but I'm not attracted to the bullshit rantfest.


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to ctsub2003)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 4:52:05 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I'm sorry, ownedgirlie.  I appreciate your starting a thread because of something DJ and I said, so I'm trying to stick around some, but I'm not attracted to the bullshit rantfest.



Thanks, RedMagic1.  My intention of this thread certainly wasn't about choosing to eat one way or the other, but you never can tell how these things turn out.   I'm not attracted to bullshit rantfests, either, so I have nothing to add to that debacle.

I am grateful, however, to those who answered the actual OP and shared their buying and eating practices with regard to their personal principles, philosophies, and shared information.  I walked away with new knowledge, which is good!  This topic is a genuine interest of mine, since I know we can't avoid everything.  But hey, apparently it's a passionate subject, so it can't be all bad to put it out there, can it? 

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 5:30:30 PM   
Nikolette


Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline 		ownedgirlie: I checked back on the thread and ohhhh my. But you shoulda seen the claws come out when I opened up a thread about "forced" vegetarianism for my slaves! We got the situation worked out satisfactorily and all are well and healthy.. but my goodness are people touchy about their dinners! I'm so nervous it may start up again at the very suggestion I almost sent this to you on the other side)

But I LOVED this thread for the most part, what with the sharing of links and opinions in a respectful manner (until it went awry). I think it was a marvelous topic to talk about.


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(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 5:46:46 PM   
Nikolette


Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline 		ctsub2003: Well yes, its an artificial construct..... but so is "healthcare professionalism"... Did you think those medications or the way we presently treat health care in our generation wasn't a construct we made up and agreed to pour money and resources in to research and practice it...? We're also "meant" to die, but we sure do try to avoid THAT quite a bit. So what I am saying, is we live almost wholly by made up constructs that are artificial... why make a judgment about which constructs are more or less "valid" than others? So little is known with much certainty at all.

That said, there is still research being done on why and how we are/are not healthy. Did you know we don't even know why we are hungry? Such a simple, basic feature of life and its a mystery. Sure we have different idea and theories and different research says this and other says that... but yeah... mystery. And as a health professional you ought to know that medical opinions evolve and change all the time. So you make it seem silly to debate but it is profoundly debatable on a bunch of different levels.

But as a side note, I agree, anthropologically speaking, we're omnivores...

And... "vegans tend to be judgmental"...? please "humans tend to be judgmental"


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"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." ---Mahatma Gandhi

(in reply to ctsub2003)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 7:20:07 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Open your mouth wide and take a good look at your teeth in the mirror. What do you see ? Incisors at the front for tearing into flesh and grain/veggie grinding molars in the back, right ? It seems that nature "intended" homosapiens to be omnivores.  Nevertheless, we also have a brain. We can choose our diets. Hopefully, it's a healthy choice. But, whatever, we can choose to eat what and as we wish just as we can choose to respect, or not, other peoples choices.

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

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(in reply to Nikolette)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/8/2008 9:51:56 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I eat meat because I like it. I eat veggies because I like them.  I eat 'junk' food because I like it.  I totally respect those who choose not to eat the same things I do.
But as LaT said.. if you don't like the foods I choose to eat (and you feel it necessary to preach to me about the evils of my diet), then you won't be asked to my table.


That pretty much sums it up for me... I decided for myself only, that the process of making veal squicked me out, so as much as I like the taste, I've not eaten a bite since I was a teenager. My choice, though, not a crusade.

On the topic of militant food Dworkinists.....Several years ago in the capitol city of Florida, I worked with a group that had weekly potlucks after their meeetings.

Week after week, I'd bring in some dish I had spent extra time and thought on, to be greeted with a litany of 'That doesn't have milk does it? That doesn't have peanuts does it? That doesn't have meat does it? That doesn't have eggs does it? I'm allergic to onions, I can't eat spices, I go into anaphylactic shock if I'm around strawberries, I'm a lacto-ovo-breatharian....'

One day I was stopped at a red light, and glancing over, saw one of the most multi-symptomatic members of this group  who had recently circulated a letter asking people not wear deodorant or use soaps because she was also allergic to them, in addition to almost everything else...

Elbows on the steering wheel so as to be able to simultaneously cram a Snickers bar  and a Whopper into her mouth at the same time, flushed down with swigs of what I strongly suspect was a strawberry shake, from the pink froth...

The next week I brought a tureen of Virginia recipe cream of peanut soup...with extra spices....

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/9/2008 11:51:27 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		In honor of this topic I bought a couple of steaks for the grill (charcoal) tonight and a pair of leather flip flops.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/9/2008 1:49:03 PM   
PainSmith


Posts: 53
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: the Republic
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

In honor of this topic I bought a couple of steaks for the grill (charcoal) tonight and a pair of leather flip flops.
Did you honour this topic's home and beat the steaks with the flip flops?

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/9/2008 3:32:02 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PainSmith


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

In honor of this topic I bought a couple of steaks for the grill (charcoal) tonight and a pair of leather flip flops.
Did you honour this topic's home and beat the steaks with the flip flops?



No, but he DID put a meat mallet to both of them before donning the flip flops so he could go outside and grill the steaks.

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(in reply to PainSmith)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/10/2008 5:52:37 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		In honour of all the fruit and vegetables that suffer animal poo dumped on them, being yanked from their vines/limbs/or the earth. I am eating all vegetarian today.........at least until I get home tonight anyway..

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/10/2008 6:04:55 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In honour of all the fruit and vegetables that suffer animal poo dumped on them,


Suffer?????  There are people out there willing to pay vast amounts of money to have this honor bestowed upon them.

I am not one of them.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/10/2008 7:11:04 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		If someone wants to pay a vast amount of money to have horse poo dumped on them.................they need to contact me. I've got an unending supply.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 11:03:52 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		It's not immaturity and disrespect to not want to be vegan or consider being vegan, just like your choice to do what you believe in vs what someone else believes in is immature or disrespectfull.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolette

I'm not currently a vegetarian, I'm what I refer to as a "Sustainable Eater". To explain simply, its like being a part time vegetarian/vegan who focuses on cruelty-free, organic, locally produced, and occasionally meat alernative foods.




And as a side note, some people's immaturity and disrespect to evenconsider vegetarian lifestyles in a reasonable and educated manner never ceases to amaze me.


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 7/13/2008 11:05:08 AM >

(in reply to Nikolette)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 11:28:44 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Hamburgers from fast food joints are REALLY really bad for you, most of them clocking in at over a thoughsand calories, plus any drink and fries you get and most burgers have tons of soduim and fat, which is probably why you feel like you have a lead ball in your guts.  all the fat an crap isn't good for you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

! 

And, ethical shopper...that describes me nicely. I think I'll use that term! ON a side note - I haven't eaten any beef for a month and last night had 2 cheeseburgers with my mom....and still today I feel like there's a lead brick in my belly. Ugh. I think my body's trying to tell me something.


(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 11:32:32 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		We have a well, the water comes right off our propertie from a tank and into our house and through our hoses. I don't know if that means it still can't be contaminated or anything, but I do know it's a lot better than city water with its addatives like chlorien and flouride. And it's awful tappy water flavor.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

How do you make sure your water is ok?  That no pesticides  or animal by products have leaked into it anywhere along the way?  . 


(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 12:39:53 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

We have a well, the water comes right off our propertie from a tank and into our house and through our hoses. I don't know if that means it still can't be contaminated or anything, but I do know it's a lot better than city water with its addatives like chlorien and flouride. And it's awful tappy water flavor.

Flouride is very good for you. Don't be fooled on this issue.

As to well water in general, just because it is pumped out of the ground doesn't make it clean or pure. You need to have the water tested on a regular basis. The residents of Hinckley CA drew their water from wells and the hexavalent chromium in the ground water killed and injured a whole lot of them.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 1:57:22 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Contaminated ground water is the reason Iowa is slowing putting in rural water service. I live in the middle of no-where and don't even have a well.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: A question for Vegans & Vegitarians re: animal prod... - 7/13/2008 5:08:43 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: PainSmith


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

In honor of this topic I bought a couple of steaks for the grill (charcoal) tonight and a pair of leather flip flops.
Did you honour this topic's home and beat the steaks with the flip flops?



No, but he DID put a meat mallet to both of them before donning the flip flops so he could go outside and grill the steaks.
Yep, beating one's meat is a time-honored tradition.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 100
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