F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (Full Version)

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darchChylde -> F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 6:58:01 PM)

In another thread, StacyTheBitch added the following as a sidenote, and then apologized for threadjacking with a statement that this should make for its' own thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StaceyTheBitch

I do wonder why people use the term power exchange so loosely when referring to Domme/ male subs interactions. I find that many times in dealing with men I have all the power to begin with and there is no exchange. I guess many are referring to the fact men are usually bigger and stronger thus they are giving you the ability to control them. That doesn't fly in today's society. There are many ways for a women to counter a mans size and strength.


i agree that such a strong statement should be in its' own thread, and i sought and recieved her permission to start one so that i may respond and i would like to see what others around here actually think about it.

_________________________________

Yes, in the world of female dominant and male submissive, then perhaps the woman has the greater balance of power; but "all of the power to begin with"?  This idea is actually repulsive to me.

The only time that i can concievably see a woman having all of the power in a relationship from the very start is if she's dealing with a "submissive" who is more caught up in the fantasy of bdsm porn than in the actual workings of a Ds relationship.

i find no reason to validate the idea that the only power a male might have in a relationship is his size and strength, this is a sexist statement and i'm not sure which gender is degraded the most by it.

My strength in my relationship, and all of my dealings with women is my charisma, the strength of my personality,  my loyalty and my desire to please my Owner (ok, the latter is specific to Ma'am).

i don't find the term "Power Exchange" as being used loosely, as i could at any time (technically) walk away and not turn back.  Yes, Ma'am has power over me; but She took none of it.  She earned it by Her own strengths and i have given it to Her freely.  As such, the power that She has directly over me is only that which i have given Her.  The idea that She might have had this at the beginning is simply ridiculous, as it is still occasionally a struggle for me not to return to my own nature of distrust and foolish independence.  She had to earn the power She has over me and i had to fight with myself in order to give it up to Her.

As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.



DominantJenny -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:12:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.


You forgot to mention the gorgeous eyes. [:D]

Seriously, the supply and demand thing may appear to put women in a dramatically more powerful position...until one notes that the majority of the "supply" is chaff. The actual wheat is in much more balanced supply, ime.

I feel a strange urge to bake bread now...[;)]



darchChylde -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:18:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.


You forgot to mention the gorgeous eyes. [:D]

Seriously, the supply and demand thing may appear to put women in a dramatically more powerful position...until one notes that the majority of the "supply" is chaff. The actual wheat is in much more balanced supply, ime.

I feel a strange urge to bake bread now...[;)]



Yeah, thanks so much DominantJenny; i chose not to mention my hair either; lol

What i feel that most don't realize is that power exchange is not something that is a one time only thing that covers all bases from that point forward, but that it's a continuous give and take.  Also, i don't believe that even in those 24/7 TPE relationships, that there is actually ever 100 % control held by either party except in some very specific circumstances.  Without open communication, discussion and understanding on all parts; i feel that such would quickly become dull and unsatisfying for all involved.



RedMagic1 -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:22:58 PM)

Marilyn Monroe once said, "I knew I had power when I was eight years old.  I got stuck in a tree, and four boys offered to help me down."

Did Marilyn Monroe have power over the men in her life because they would do "anything she wanted" so they could score, or did they have ultimate power over her?

Is lusting for you the same as being inspired by you?





StaceyTheBitch -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:44:01 PM)

Lets be clear darchChylde. I did not say "all of the power to begin with"

I said "I find that many times in dealing with men I have all the power to begin with and there is no power exchange"

Quoting out of context changes the meaning.

As for my take on why I have this power over MANY (but certainly not all) men.

One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much. In cases such as these if the man wants me he will do as I say or there will be no relationship. My power comes from the man wanting me more than I want him. I start with the power and I keep it.

Two: Some men fear women. Many men I encounter in both the vanilla and kink lifestyle are already powerless around me and there is no exchange. I don't know why these men fear women. I don't read minds and I don't have enough experience dealing with this these types of men.

It's true men can use other means to control women other then just physical size and strength. But not me. No man will control me with mind games or force of will. It's not happening. If a man tried to control me or harm me through physical means then one of us would end up in the hospital. I will not be controlled.

There is never a power exchange when I deal with men in a D/s relationship. I always have the power to begin with. If the guy does not like my terms then there is no "us". If a guy feels he has power over me then there is no "us" thus negating his power.

My power comes from the ability to walk away from any relationship in which I am not in charge.



undergroundsea -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:54:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StaceyTheBitch
I do wonder why people use the term power exchange so loosely when referring to Domme/ male subs interactions. I find that many times in dealing with men I have all the power to begin with and there is no exchange. I guess many are referring to the fact men are usually bigger and stronger thus they are giving you the ability to control them. That doesn't fly in today's society. There are many ways for a women to counter a mans size and strength.


In my opinion, power exchange is a correct term. In consensual BDSM, one person offers power and the other person accepts power. I think what is relevant is not the size or strength but rather it is the voluntary surrender of power, will, and compliance. I still consider it a power exchange when a woman submits to a man or a woman submits to a woman, regardless of how the respective physical strengths compare.

The amount of power exchanged in a power exchange varies from scenario to scenario. In Fm, the ratios particularly tilt the power in favor of women. Aside from wanting to assume a submissive role and willingly offer power, men are more willing to appease a woman when they know she has other suitors and their opportunities might be limited.

This topic ties in with a project I am currently developing. There are two types of power in a BDSM relationship: (1) that willingly exchanged, and (2) that that exists much like power in other relationships. The latter mostly stems from social attraction (a term I use to collectively describe attraction due to physical traits, mental traits, and personality), desire to be with, or desire to be in the good graces of a person. Opportunity also plays a role in attraction or, rather, interest felt.

The second type of power is also available to subs who are able to attract interest. Such subs are less likely to grudgingly compromise to appease if they have the confidence that if one option is not suitable, they do not have to compromise and can find another.

Cheers,

Sea



petdave -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:54:52 PM)

That is an interesting point. i wonder which thread it came from. [:-]

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
i don't find the term "Power Exchange" as being used loosely, as i could at any time (technically) walk away and not turn back. 


That seems like a contradictory statement to me. Anyone in a vanilla relationship could walk away from their partner and not turn back. Exactly what power is being exchanged with whom to make the expression pertinent? [:-]
The power to not watch you walk away?
But wouldn't that be a negative power, like a weakness exchange?
i guess i'm confused [:o]

quote:


i find no reason to validate the idea that the only power a male might have in a relationship is his size and strength, this is a sexist statement and i'm not sure which gender is degraded the most by it.

As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.


So you bring a deep voice (just as biologically driven as strength, but somehow not sexist, but whatever. Gold star *plink*), personality and sensuality, and the woman brings... chopped liver? Personally, i wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who was less sensual than me, but ok, Dif'rent strokes to rule that world. But personality? That seems fairly insulting. And how exactly do you give up control of something like that in a power exchange relationship, become an empty shell of a doormat? Lemme tell ya, maybe you're new here, but there's noooowwwwwwwt a lot of demand for that...

i donno.  So far i'm not so sure the referenced perspective is invalid. Might need that gold star back.



undergroundsea -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 7:58:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StaceyTheBitch
My power comes from the ability to walk away from any relationship in which I am not in charge.


More generally, any person is empowered if able to walk away from a relationship that leaves one dissatisfied.

Cheers,

Sea



darchChylde -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 8:03:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StaceyTheBitch

Lets be clear darchChylde. I did not say "all of the power to begin with"

I said "I find that many times in dealing with men I have all the power to begin with and there is no power exchange"

Quoting out of context changes the meaning.

As for my take on why I have this power over MANY (but certainly not all) men.

One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much. In cases such as these if the man wants me he will do as I say or there will be no relationship. My power comes from the man wanting me more than I want him. I start with the power and I keep it.

Two: Some men fear women. Many men I encounter in both the vanilla and kink lifestyle are already powerless around me and there is no exchange. I don't know why these men fear women. I don't read minds and I don't have enough experience dealing with this these types of men.

It's true men can use other means to control women other then just physical size and strength. But not me. No man will control me with mind games or force of will. It's not happening. If a man tried to control me or harm me through physical means then one of us would end up in the hospital. I will not be controlled.

There is never a power exchange when I deal with men in a D/s relationship. I always have the power to begin with. If the guy does not like my terms then there is no "us". If a guy feels he has power over me then there is no "us" thus negating his power.

My power comes from the ability to walk away from any relationship in which I am not in charge.



So, all in all you are not dominant but domineering; i get it.  You are the perfect "mistress" for the majority of male "submissives".  You take your cues about D/s from the same place that they do, not from  reality but from bdsm porn.  There is obviously a market for such, so i'm sure you do very well; and will continue to do so until you mature and join reality.

A couple of further notes:

As for my taking your words and quoting them out of context, that's utter male bovine fecal matter.  As you went on to demonstrate, i took your words and kept them entirely in context, thank you for proving my point.

Also... "One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much."

Now, where is it even concievable that a man's ability to hurt a woman gives him power; thus, making these "good people" who "respect women too much" for that weak by your own definition.  What good dominant wants a weak submissive?  It seems counterproductive to good service to me.

Now, though even i don't think it is forgivable; i do apologize for the harshness of this reply; it is uncalled for.  But, such is my natural reaction to the sputum that you have expectorated onto my screen. 

i used to say that the thing that i most dislike about most male submissives is that there are so many that continue to and are proud of perpetuating the very worst stereotypes of the male submissive.  You have proven that i was being too specific, there are also female dominants who do the same for their own subsect of the bdsm community.



darchChylde -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 8:17:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

That is an interesting point. i wonder which thread it came from. [:-]

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
i don't find the term "Power Exchange" as being used loosely, as i could at any time (technically) walk away and not turn back. 


That seems like a contradictory statement to me. Anyone in a vanilla relationship could walk away from their partner and not turn back. Exactly what power is being exchanged with whom to make the expression pertinent? [:-]
The power to not watch you walk away?
But wouldn't that be a negative power, like a weakness exchange?
i guess i'm confused [:o]

i'll admit that i worded this badly, my intent is that nomatter what power i have given up in my relationship; i could always take that back by walking away... i said technically, as i honestly no longer see that as an option

quote:


i find no reason to validate the idea that the only power a male might have in a relationship is his size and strength, this is a sexist statement and i'm not sure which gender is degraded the most by it.

As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.


So you bring a deep voice (just as biologically driven as strength, but somehow not sexist, but whatever. Gold star *plink*), personality and sensuality, and the woman brings... chopped liver? Personally, i wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who was less sensual than me, but ok, Dif'rent strokes to rule that world. But personality? That seems fairly insulting. And how exactly do you give up control of something like that in a power exchange relationship, become an empty shell of a doormat? Lemme tell ya, maybe you're new here, but there's noooowwwwwwwt a lot of demand for that...

i donno.  So far i'm not so sure the referenced perspective is invalid. Might need that gold star back.



no, by listing my deep voice, i was speaking of a very deep resonating voice (i mention it mainly because it happens to be exceptional, compared to the average male voice) that many women find very attractive

but; as far as the voice, personality and sensuality; the entirety of that statement is based on my general dealings with women in everyday life:

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
As far as my normal dealings with women in the everyday world; by the strength of my personality, my deep voice and my own sensuality i generally have the greater power... but by no means all.



 this means that these things give me power over women in everyday life, thus not those i am in a power-exchange relationship with... meaning that these are all features that i have and use to my advantage, whether i am actively doing so or not; simply due to the way women treat me in general



RedMagic1 -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 8:34:31 PM)

I'm going to cry foul here, DC.  If you want to start a thread, start your own thread, using your own words.  Instead, the non-OP-OP responded, and you let go with both barrels.  Flametrap.  You're getting your buttons pushed somehow, and you're not in control.  I'm off the thread.

I wish to fucking God that folks would cut the new people some slack.  Of course people learn about BDSM through porn.  So what?  Give them inspiring examples of your own behavior, to replace fantasy with reality.



LadyPact -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 8:53:32 PM)

I almost hated to snip any of this because it was so good, but I did a bit of cutting for brevety.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
Yes, in the world of female dominant and male submissive, then perhaps the woman has the greater balance of power; but "all of the power to begin with"?  This idea is actually repulsive to me.

The only time that i can concievably see a woman having all of the power in a relationship from the very start is if she's dealing with a "submissive" who is more caught up in the fantasy of bdsm porn than in the actual workings of a Ds relationship.

i don't find the term "Power Exchange" as being used loosely, as i could at any time (technically) walk away and not turn back.  Yes, Ma'am has power over me; but She took none of it.  She earned it by Her own strengths and i have given it to Her freely.  As such, the power that She has directly over me is only that which i have given Her.    She had to earn the power She has over me and i had to fight with myself in order to give it up to Her.

I feel it almost unfair to even put this out to the general board since you and I have had such great opportunities to discuss this at length, but I'm going to base part of My reply on previous conversations.

There is a great beauty in a particular omission in your post.   It is completely about power and those non-sexual things that it takes to earn it.  A Dominant doesn't earn power with parts of their anatomy.  Sure, for some, that is a a necessary component of it, but more often than not, when it's based on that, it is rather shallow.   Those who can take away the sexual allure, or even the hope of it, and see what remains, have a much greater foundation in an actual dynamic.

Someone on these boards, I believe it is GoddessAva, has a signature line that goes something like this:  "I have the pussy, therefore, I make the rules."  I believe that to be true for a huge percentage of people who come along sites like this.  The females, at times, can be just as guilty as the males for playing upon it.  In such cases, it really doesn't have anything to do with power, even though it does happen to be very true.  There's no "earning" anything just because someone happens to have a vagina.  The real power, comes from something else.
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Is lusting for you the same as being inspired by you?

Absolutely not.  I know there are quite a few Fem Doms who would agree on this. 





hardbodysub -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 9:05:50 PM)

I have two comments about things said in this thread.

First, I disagree with DC's contention about the term "power exchange". I agree with Stacey that it is overused, and I think it is a poor description for D/s relationships. Maybe it's just semantics, but I find the phrase illogical. When one person is dominant and the other submissive, the dominant person has more power, period. It's not an "exchange", in my opinion. A submissive agreeing to give the dominant person authority in certain areas does not constitute an "exchange" of power; rather, it is merely evidence of the dominant's inherent greater relative power in that relationship. The fact that the sub could walk away, but chooses not to, does NOT make a difference. Anybody who has studied management knows that power and authority are derived from several bases, and any of them can result in one person acquiescing to the other's directions. You are perfectly free to use whatever term you want for it, and so is anybody else, but I just don't think the term is really a valid one. You didn't give her power; she had it, through the "strengths" you mentioned. You merely accepted her power over you. If you walk, then she didn't have that much power over you.

Second, I disagree with Stacey's contention that DC took her statement out of context. He quoted her directly, and completely in context. Her response did nothing to show any difference between what he quoted and what she meant. On the other hand, I agree with her general view of the "power exchange", or lack thereof.





petdave -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 9:24:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

So, all in all you are not dominant but domineering; i get it.  You are the perfect "mistress" for the majority of male "submissives".  You take your cues about D/s from the same place that they do, not from  reality but from bdsm porn. 


Any interpretation of reality that disagrees with your own is summarily dismissed as a fantastic product of the demon (OH NOES!) BDSM PR0N? Pff. Might be worth a shot in a face-to-face debate if you're dependent on the bulldozer approach, but when words can be considered and valued? Fail.


quote:


Also... "One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much."

Now, where is it even concievable that a man's ability to hurt a woman gives him power


Um, in the real world where people don't want to be hurt?  The ability to hurt people gives one nation power over another, gives the State the power over the individual.... do i have to keep breaking it down?


quote:


What good dominant wants a weak submissive?


A nurturing one? A Dominant who doesn't have anything to prove? A Dominant who, Herself, is strong enough that She doesn't depend on anyone else's strength and can value Her submissive for things other than the sum of their assets?
That's three, do i need to hit a particular number, or was it a rhetorical question? [&:]



darchChylde -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 9:44:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

So, all in all you are not dominant but domineering; i get it.  You are the perfect "mistress" for the majority of male "submissives".  You take your cues about D/s from the same place that they do, not from  reality but from bdsm porn. 


Any interpretation of reality that disagrees with your own is summarily dismissed as a fantastic product of the demon (OH NOES!) BDSM PR0N? Pff. Might be worth a shot in a face-to-face debate if you're dependent on the bulldozer approach, but when words can be considered and valued? Fail.

right here, i will admit (and have already made clear in many posts previous to this thread) that the statements you quoted above are products of my own personal prejudices and pet peeves; so of course they won't carry much weight

thus, i concede this point to you


quote:


Also... "One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much."

Now, where is it even concievable that a man's ability to hurt a woman gives him power


Um, in the real world where people don't want to be hurt?  The ability to hurt people gives one nation power over another, gives the State the power over the individual.... do i have to keep breaking it down?

on a national or worldwide basis, your argument might hold water... but in an individual basis, which is what we're talking about; the ability to hurt another is not where the power lies... the power lies in whether or not the victim choose to allow the abuse to continue
quote:




What good dominant wants a weak submissive?


A nurturing one? A Dominant who doesn't have anything to prove? A Dominant who, Herself, is strong enough that She doesn't depend on anyone else's strength and can value Her submissive for things other than the sum of their assets?
That's three, do i need to hit a particular number, or was it a rhetorical question? [&:]

submission takes strength; even with the most "slave-minded", there will always those moments when one must fight their own fears and insecurities in order to allow another to dominate them instead of being dominated by those intangibles i've just mentioned

beyond that, there is simply a difference between a submissive and a victim; which is what a submissive without their own strengths truly is



RedMagic1 -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 10:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I believe it is GoddessAva, has a signature line that goes something like this:  "I have the pussy, therefore, I make the rules." 

Yeah, it's Ava.  Ava's longterm partner is black, and she's been recipient of various forms of prejudice as a result.  One of my serious relationships was with an undocumented Mexican immigrant, and some of the things we encountered were similar.  Ava and I were talking, and she invited M and me to visit for dinner and playtime if we clicked.  It didn't happen though,  because M and I broke up.  And yep, I'm talking about the same badass GoddessAva, I'm a pro, nothing's happening unless you show me the money, I have the pussy so I make the rules.

I decided to break my own rule and repost here, because there has been so much tension and drama on the boards lately, and this Ava thing is a perfect example of what I am trying to communicate.  If you treat people decently, you tend to get decent back, regardless of their exterior face.



LadyPact -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 10:00:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I wish to fucking God that folks would cut the new people some slack.  Of course people learn about BDSM through porn.  So what?  Give them inspiring examples of your own behavior, to replace fantasy with reality.


We're not exactly disagreeing in this, but I admit to not being exactly an 'inspiring' example lately.  The truth is, you can't inspire everyone.  It's the net, and you can't make the same kind of impression that you can in real life. There is a huge difference between the two.

I actually think that porn does a great disservice to us, in many aspects.  Sure, it's a gateway for some, but fighting the preconceived notions after that take a lot of time and energy.  The thing is, you can't do it 100% all of the time for everyone, everywhere.  It just isn't possible.



petdave -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 10:16:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
Any interpretation of reality that disagrees with your own is summarily dismissed as a fantastic product of the demon (OH NOES!) BDSM PR0N? Pff. Might be worth a shot in a face-to-face debate if you're dependent on the bulldozer approach, but when words can be considered and valued? Fail.


right here, i will admit (and have already made clear in many posts previous to this thread) that the statements you quoted above are products of my own personal prejudices and pet peeves; so of course they won't carry much weight

thus, i concede this point to you


So we're agreed that you're just tossing a bunch of bullshit (uh, sorry... bovine somethinwhatever, a thousand pardons) out there, telling people it's prime rib, and then arguing over whether the prime rib is medium or medium-well? Sheeit. Talk about taking all the fun out of a discussion [:o] Seems like that should really be a disclaimer right up at the top of the thing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
Also... "One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much."

Now, where is it even concievable that a man's ability to hurt a woman gives him power


Um, in the real world where people don't want to be hurt?  The ability to hurt people gives one nation power over another, gives the State the power over the individual.... do i have to keep breaking it down?


on a national or worldwide basis, your argument might hold water... but in an individual basis, which is what we're talking about; the ability to hurt another is not where the power lies... the power lies in whether or not the victim choose to allow the abuse to continue


Tell it to Konerak Sinthasomphone, among millions of others... (not the most subtle example, but it's 1 AM and you decided to pull the non-consent card into it?)
quote:


quote:


quote:


What good dominant wants a weak submissive?


A nurturing one? A Dominant who doesn't have anything to prove? A Dominant who, Herself, is strong enough that She doesn't depend on anyone else's strength and can value Her submissive for things other than the sum of their assets?
That's three, do i need to hit a particular number, or was it a rhetorical question? [&:]


submission takes strength; even with the most "slave-minded", there will always those moments when one must fight their own fears and insecurities in order to allow another to dominate them instead of being dominated by those intangibles i've just mentioned


Sorry, like i said, 1 AM (and did i mention drunk?)... which intangibles are those again? [&:]

Seems like an impossibility that MALESUB A might have those intangible fears and insecurities, and be "strong" for overcoming them, while malesub b can either 1. Be free of them, or 2. Also overcome them (because they're universal, yet somehow he submits anyway) and still be far less than MALESUB A... [:-]

quote:


beyond that, there is simply a difference between a submissive and a victim;


Consent, ja, old news, non-sequitor.



slvemike4u -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 10:16:51 PM)

This thread certainly felt like an ambush to me...seems there are some of us that don't like Sandy....go greased lightning go greased lightning!!!!!...(with apologies to Olivia Newton John....she really looked great inthat closing number didn't she?)



AAkasha -> RE: F/m Power Exchange - Is it a Given? (7/8/2008 10:21:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StaceyTheBitch

Lets be clear darchChylde. I did not say "all of the power to begin with"

I said "I find that many times in dealing with men I have all the power to begin with and there is no power exchange"

Quoting out of context changes the meaning.

As for my take on why I have this power over MANY (but certainly not all) men.

One: Some men are incapable of hurting women. It's just not in there nature, they are good people and the respect women too much. In cases such as these if the man wants me he will do as I say or there will be no relationship. My power comes from the man wanting me more than I want him. I start with the power and I keep it.

Two: Some men fear women. Many men I encounter in both the vanilla and kink lifestyle are already powerless around me and there is no exchange. I don't know why these men fear women. I don't read minds and I don't have enough experience dealing with this these types of men.

It's true men can use other means to control women other then just physical size and strength. But not me. No man will control me with mind games or force of will. It's not happening. If a man tried to control me or harm me through physical means then one of us would end up in the hospital. I will not be controlled.

There is never a power exchange when I deal with men in a D/s relationship. I always have the power to begin with. If the guy does not like my terms then there is no "us". If a guy feels he has power over me then there is no "us" thus negating his power.

My power comes from the ability to walk away from any relationship in which I am not in charge.



I agree that the term "power exchange" is overused and in the examples you give, yes, it does make sense. But I'm assuming you are "wired" femdom to the core (ie, born that way, like me) as I get that sense from your posts; and while it's always exciting to have power over a man, do you not at all feel there is more of a rush, of satisfaction, or that you are taking control of something more powerful and intense when the man does not just roll over at the sight of you and grovel?

If you were to look at submissive men on a scale of sorts, at one end you have guys who are deluded from too much porn and will submit to any woman if she just looks at them and says "kneel," then he will grovel and act pathetic and basically he's off to the races - the femdom herself is practically optional at this point.  On the other end of the scale is Joe Masculine Asshole Vanilla Guy who will never submit to any lady because he's so freaking insecure it goes against his manliness and ego in ways that make him shudder to think about it.  So in the middle of the scale, kind of in the "sweet spot" I call it, you have both self-aware submissives who *want* to submit but protect their pride a bit and really want to make the right choice about it; and, you have open minded vanilla guys that haven't though about submission really, but when they are in love or lust, the idea becomes one that they will ponder and consider, if they feel safe, because they see and enjoy what it does for their lady.

Is there not more appeal for submission from men that hold it as valuable and protected, vs. those that are so eager to give it away that they will do it willingly even on the Internet to someone who 'says' they are indeed female?  Now, I don't want to get into the "gift" debate because I'm not saying it's a gift. I'm saying that some men hold onto their most *vulnerable* states and don't readily give that up, because they have some pride and they have ego to protect, but in a good way.  That said, their submission is all the more sweet, (as in, tasty), because they don't just roll over at the sight of a woman in boots.  Instead, it DOES have to be peeled off of them a layer at a time to get into them in a truly intense, emotional, sensual level, to their real submissive guts, so to speak.

I'm honestly interested in your opinion and hope you will share it! :)

There really is something to be said for "who has the power" even in courting.  I figured out a long, long time ago though that it is my choice that I will always have the power, from the start, period.  I choose that.  I have it, or I am not interested. Yes, I have it because more submissive men want my attention and femdoms are in high demand, and I am the real deal, and also a great lady to boot; but I also have that in the vanilla world, because I am hot, and I take care of myself, and I am a dynamite lady inside and out and I work hard to make my men feel special.  This is *self esteem* though at work, not power exchange - the point is that I am not going to pine for a guy, or chase a guy, or pout if he doesn't ask me out, or feel all out of control and walked on like most women do - I am going to own any social situation and feel free to walk away in an instant if a guy isn't willing and able to pursue me in the manner I want to be pursued.  Having the power just means I am not going to fall prey to "must have what I can't have" - if a guy I find hot isn't interested in me, guess what? His loss - I don't waste a moment on it.  I think Stacey feels the same way.  Does that mean we have all the power out of the gate?  Sure.  But ANYONE can have that choice, male or female.  I don't ever see myself as the one to cry a river if a guy I 'want' isn't interested in me - I will find someone better, end of story - if he isn't interested neither am I, and I am not going to compromise myself in any way to make myself more attractive to someone.  The person who empowers themself with the ability to choose AND unwillingness to compromise is always the one in power. 

Akasha



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