RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ...

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NeedingMore220 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 7:36:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Americans are working harder and longer than ever in history.Two spouses working,people working 2nd and 3rd jobs is normal and Americans are taking less vacation time every year, on average. Yes, that is true. I will submit, however that Americans have more CRAP than they ever have in history. How many tv's in the average household? How many cell phones? How many cars - and are they $20K cars or $60K leased ones? How many of those tv's are big-screen? How many vacations does the average family take? Have you noticed the mall parking lots are just as filled as ever? Everytime I drive in to pick something up, I'm amazed. "Gee, I thought there was a recession. I thought people were strapped for cash." We want more. We spend more. This has to do more with people taking on debt they can't afford and living higher than their means. Then the bubble bursts and they whine. Look, I'm as guilty of it as the next person and now I'm digging myself out of it. And we're doing without a lot of things that other people within our community have. But that's just too damn bad. Our income has dropped since last year. That means no vacation this summer. Or ... I could decide to charge it on a credit card and amass $10K more debt. Let's see ... which way would the "average" American go?

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 7:42:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius You must have missed Obama's comment during the primaries. See what he says about bein upset because of how fast the prices went up, that should open your eyes. I do finally agree with you though, Obama is the candidate of change, he is constantly changing his positions on policies... public financing, pulling troops out of Iraq, 2nd ammendment and gun bans, FISA,... Guess you`re vote`n for McGrampa. Now that`s change you can take to the bank(if the bank hasn`t folded already).

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 8:13:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Gramm is right, to a degree. Considering that Gramm is one of the "founding fathers" of the Enron loophole,which allows unregulated speculation to drive up the cost of energy and food,Phil fucking Gramm should STFU. We`ll be seeing McCain throwing another staffer under the bus soon.And, his name will be Gramm. With the highest foreclosure rates since the Great Depression,massive layoffs,skyrocketing fuel prices,food and everything else going up, why shouldn`t people complain and say something? And who the fuck does Gramm(a typical neo-con)think he is to call that whining?It`s not fucking whining.Real people are hurting.Of course people going to say something. I guess it`s to much for the elitists to bear, to fuck us in the ass and to also have to deal with our "whining" about it. Gram,.. proclaiming that we never had it so good,sounds an awful lot the drunken abusive husband,who after spending the family into the poor house and being a general fuck-up,say`s(sincerely)"you`ve never had it so good"...... Compared with other people in the world,we`re doing better(we have the richest poor people in the world),but that`s hardly the fuck`n point.And coming from a man like Gramm,it`s pure insult. Americans probably did better on average, during the great depression too.Hardly comforting to those that suffered through it.

MistressNew -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 8:29:58 AM)
Well, Gramm may think we aren't in a recession and that we're just whiners, but over 70% of economists agree that we are, in fact, in a recession. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120534519452630845.html Who to believe... the vast majority of economists or a McCain campaign worker who helped create the recession.... Hmm. "During this past week: McCain called the most important entitlement program in the U.S. a disgrace, his top economic adviser called the American people whiners, McCain released an economic plan that no one thought was serious, he flip flopped on Iraq, joked about the deaths of Iranian citizens, and denied making comments that he clearly made—TWICE. "

cyberdude611 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 8:35:05 AM)
Speculation has almost nothing to do with rising energy prices. Speculators are really no one other than people who make bets on market direction. They dont determine the prices and they do not make money when oil goes up. If they bet on oil going down, they would make the same amount of money. So it is of no advantage to speculators for oil to go up in value. The reason oil prices are rising is because demand is soaring in China and India who have about 45% of the world population. With more Chinese and Indians using energy, it is pulling supplies from the world market. China is already building pipelines all over central asia. And on the other front, when you dont have the refineries to refine enough crude to keep up demand of gasoline....you pay more at the pump. These are the factors that are pushing oil upward right now. And as the president of OPEC said, "get used to it...it wont change." In fact, I'll bet within 3-4 years we will be paying $7 or $8 a gallon and perhaps more if someone doesn't tell Iran to keep their mouth shut.

SilverWulf -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:07:08 AM)
<fast reply> People do need to stop whining and realize they have life pretty good and easy. Drive through any typical suburban neighborhood and open your eyes. You'll see at least 2 cars in every driveway, an RV parked alongside the house, a boat somewhere, a motorcycle or two, and probably a couple of ATV's as well. Inside the house will be at least 2 big screen flat panel HDTV's and the most expensive appliances money can buy in the kitchen. I drive all over the country and have yet to see store parking lots empty. In a typical day I see hundreds of signs saying 'hiring now' '1000 sign on bonus' 'help needed now', etc... The majority of the cars on the road are within 3-5 years of being new. Freight tonnage moved by truck is steady, and slightly increasing month to month. Just who is buying all this stuff that is being hauled all over the country? The liberal news media is doing their damndest to put the economy into a tailspin so they can get their guy in office come November. All I ever hear is that we are in a recession, spending is down, people are hurting, blah blah blah. Bullshit. "All the jobs are minimum wage or at WallyWorld" <whine> Stop fear mongering. I'm sitting in Houston right now waiting to get loaded. From where I am sitting I can see 6 buildings with 'help wanted' banners. I just called 5 of them. They are offering wages that are nowhere near minimum. 4 of the 5 told me that they have been looking for help for 6 months or more and cannot find any good reliable workers. None of the jobs require special training or prior experience, OJT is offered. So what's the problem? The jobs are either warehouse or working in pipe yards. I guess those are 'below' the standard for you whiners out there who can't find work and are complaining about working for Wally.

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:09:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Actually Owner McCain is right. My standard of living has improved and I see no downturn in the economy...People here in Houston are spending freely, buying consumer goods, eating out, I dont see any belt tightening at all. If anything, things are booming! I cant go to the store to get a pack of smokes without driving past a half a dozen help wanted / now hiring signs. I routinely get inquiries about private pilot training (which I dont offer except to special people like girlfriends, teenage children of clients etc) which is a hobby that costs $100+ an hour to participate in. The dive boats and fishing charters in Galveston are packed... things are JUST GREAT! Im dont see this "recession" and I think people need to cowboy the fuck up and get over it. You arent gonna make $50,000 a year putting hubcaps on cars anymore. Those days are past our economy is now tech and service oriented instead of manufacturing oriented. Adapt or starve. Im surrounded by "average americans" - hell britt is a brand new college grad with a brand new mustang converible, a ford ranger pickup and a Harley. Her moms a housewife, her dads a NON UNION refinery welder, and as of August shes a 2nd grade teacher... Hardly "privelaged" yet she came out of school with 2 cars a motorcycle and a $42,000 a year job with full bennies and retirement in 20 years. She got there working in Walgreens and as a Bar Maid... My whole street is full of average americans with 4000 - 5000 sq foot homes, 2 - 5 cars in the driveways, boats in the backyard, etc and these people work for NASA, Continental Airlines, ExpressJet, The Port of Houston, themselves, etc... Sorry that people who work in the car wash think there is a recession but I can get my Eddie Bauer, BMW, or Vette washed for free with a gas fill up at the local Conoco so they need to find something more profitable to do than to wait on me to come for a car wash LOL... Word of advice to all the Dems, burn your union cards and you might keep your jobs... Otherwise they are going to Mexico cause nobody wants to pay $48 an hour for a widget assembler anymore... The socialist sense of entitlement priced them out of the market... Yesterday I heard an airline industry trade group spokesmen, asking the radio listeners to email ,call or write their congress-people to support the reforms the democrats are pushing. This is the site he promoted. http://capwiz.com/stopoilspeculators/issues/alert/?alertid=11496046 He said he had signatures from the CEOs of every major airline,supporting this (kinda grass-roots)effort.He said that was unprecedented. The airline industry is coming together with other business groups to reel in the abuses of speculators. http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2008/07/07/daily37.html?ana=from_rss He also said that by years end,100 American cities will loose air service. Wish I caught his name,but I was driving and not paying attention when he was introduced. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Though you may be ok ,....for now,domaviator,think about what`s going to happen to your fellow pilots in those cities and to your industry.The businesses that support those airports,the communities and economies that depend on that air service,etc. are going to suffer. Are you the type that doesn`t notice a flood until it`s lapping at your doorstep? I`m thinking that if you personally don`t suffer or hit hard times,you won`t really have a problem when others do. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Fuel costs kill off a US airline every week" http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/25/theairlineindustry.usa

cyberdude611 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:22:05 AM)
Maybe if the airlines were not always late or cancelled more people would rely on their service. The airline industry is a joke and the deserve to suffer the way the make their passengers suffer. The FAA made a report earlier this year that said that less than 40% of US flights left on time in 2007.

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:28:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Maybe if the airlines were not always late or cancelled more people would rely on their service. The airline industry is a joke and the deserve to suffer the way the make their passengers suffer. The FAA made a report earlier this year that said that less than 40% of US flights left on time in 2007. Reminds me of a comedy sketch where a beating victim is chided, not only for injuring the fists of the attacker, but also for bleeding all over the place....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image]

Archer -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:29:56 AM)
By definition we have not reached recession at this time. Definition - 2 consecutive quarters of negative economic growth = recession. We have not yet as of this post had One Quarter of negative growth. The Economists quoted in the WSJ are projecting that this quarter will be the first of two that we will have negative growth. But projections are not fact YET. Now the entire economy doesn't have to be shrinking for people to be hurting. Some individual States likely already have been in a textbook recession, but the overall economy of the US taken as a whole has been growing for every quarter, although at a very anemic rate (less than 1% growth last quarter) What we have actually is Stagflation Stagnant economy and Inflation. As to whining, all you have to do is follow the boards and you see plenty of examples of it from all sides (myself included sometimes). It was a boneheaded statement to make for Grahm. (Sidenote rant When are the mina birds gonna get off the neocon description for anyone they don't like? Grahm was and is an Old School conservative, a Deficit Hawk, one of the leaders in the Ballanced Budget during Clintons second term when the Republicans actually still believed in fiscal conservatism. One of Newt's backers during the Contract With America. That's hardly neo conservative.)

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:52:52 AM)
(Sidenote rant When are the mina birds gonna get off the neocon description for anyone they don't like? Grahm was and is an Old School conservative, a Deficit Hawk, one of the leaders in the Ballanced Budget during Clintons second term when the Republicans actually still believed in fiscal conservatism. One of Newt's backers during the Contract With America. That's hardly neo conservative.) Gramm is right now, presently,actively and in every other ~way'ly~ lobbying against mortgage and lending reforms in Washington DC. If he was ever old school,he isn`t now.He`s a payed lobbyist, buying and selling off of his "old school" connections like a whore. He`s working right now as we speak,for the "new" conservative who ushered in this "new" way of lending money,called the predatory loan or "sub-prime" loan.. He`s lobbying for a bail out for the crooks in the industry and against any/all reforms to the business or to lending rules. He is no old school conservative.He is a "neo-conservative".The new and improved kind.[;)] And he`s John McCain`s chief economic adviser.Do the math,Archer. Imagine Treasury Secretary Gramm. Or Energy Secretary....... Commerce Secretary...

MistressNew -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 10:09:11 AM)
What strikes me as particularly funny about this is how McCain claims Graham doesn't speak for him. Last week, all I heard from McCain is how Wes Clark=Obama. But now McCain's chief economic adviser doesn't speak for McCain? Nobody speaks for McCain, we're to believe, but every democrat is Obama.

Owner59 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 10:23:20 AM)
Doesn`t McCain constantly claim to have little or no economic expertise? And Phil Gram is his chief adviser on economics?It`s starting to make sense,.......I think.... And, is there an adviser on McCain`s staff, that isn`t a lobbyist?WTF?

Mercnbeth -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 10:29:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Doesn`t McCain constantly claim to have little or no economic expertise? And Phil Gram is his chief adviser on economics?It`s starting to make sense,.......I think.... And, is there an adviser on McCain`s staff, that isn`t a lobbyist?WTF? Owner, Please reference Senator Obama's economic advisers and/or his economic qualifications. I'm already on record voting against Senator McCain. Other than the reason "he's not McCain" or his favorable comparison to President Bush; what economic stimulus can we expect based upon his history and/or advisers? Who I'm sure, based upon your outrage, must not be in any way or ever were lobbyists or have a PAC job on their resume.

Archer -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 11:00:53 AM)
Crooks and lobbiest come from both sides of the retired Senator/ congressmen's list. I'm not saying the man is clean. I'm saying that the cliche' level of the term NEEEEOOOO CONNNNNN has reached the level that it discounts the opinion of the user as much as if someone called Obama a Pinko. Old School Conservatives had their criminals and lobbiest too. He's on the board for a couple simple reasons. Graham Rudmann Ammendment gave him alot of cout as a fiscal conservative, Graham and McCain were real buddy buddy back then since they both were deficit hawks. McCain has to keep some of the Conservatives happy Graham does that. Economic policy under McCain you can pretty much think is going to revolve around Budget Cuts. Of all the things he has been pretty consistant about, he's bucked against his party leaders on this subject the most as a Senator. Graham has a reputation from his Seantor days as a Budget Hawk and that is what McCain wanted him to bring to the economic table along with the banking knowledge. Nothing new about Republicans being for banks. S&L bailout etc. Grahams job has been to lobby the possition of his clients for awhile now he's no longer in government service. BTW I'm still tossing my vote away as yet on Barr even though I wouldn't want him to win either.

popeye1250 -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 11:35:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius You must have missed Obama's comment during the primaries. See what he says about bein upset because of how fast the prices went up, that should open your eyes. I do finally agree with you though, Obama is the candidate of change, he is constantly changing his positions on policies... public financing, pulling troops out of Iraq, 2nd ammendment and gun bans, FISA,... Yup, Obama is the candidate of "change" alright, he's "changing" from a Democrat into a Republican! Maybe that's why "The Reverand" Jesse Jackson wants to "cut his nuts off."

DomAviator -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 1:22:48 PM)
Owner, I could care less about the airlines - to be blunt their financial practicies are what put them in the mess they are in... I want to slap one of my buddies / part time contract employees - the poor baby had to take a pay cut. I was like booo hoooooo, that puts you down to what now $210,000 a year working 76 hours a month? Gee good thing he has part time work with me - otherwise how could he make ends meet. LMFAO. Quite the opposite - the problems with the airlines are actually GOOD for my business as some of them are now requiring that new hires come to them already type rated - thus meaning ante up $14,000 or so to get the type rating out of your own pocket as we arent going to give it to you anymore. The inability of airlines to keep schedules is also increasing the number of businesses operating corporate aircraft thus creating clients for my management / crew leasing / contract flight dept services as well as jobs for airline pilots wanting to fill in the gap created when they got their pay cut to a miserlly 200K LOL However as SilverWulf said above: quote: I'm sitting in Houston right now waiting to get loaded. From where I am sitting I can see 6 buildings with 'help wanted' banners. I just called 5 of them. They are offering wages that are nowhere near minimum. 4 of the 5 told me that they have been looking for help for 6 months or more and cannot find any good reliable workers. None of the jobs require special training or prior experience, OJT is offered. So what's the problem? The jobs are either warehouse or working in pipe yards. I guess those are 'below' the standard for you whiners out there who can't find work and are complaining about working for Wally. Thats exactly what I see around here. I have a class A CDL, which I got just for the hell of it and because truck driving school here only costs $345.00. I have no intention of driving truck but they dont know that I got the license just to have it, because it will make me better at driving with a trailer and backing down a boat ramp, and because I want to be able to say "If it flies, floats, or rolls I can drive it!" (Same reason I got a USCG 100 ton Master's License despite the fact I do not fish commercially) Anyway, a couple of times a week I get mail from various trucking companies recruiting me... Some of those trucking jobs pay pretty well and come with nice bennies. As I mentioned with Britt, school teachers make $42,000 as a new hire and all you need is a bachelors degree in anything - hers is a BA in "General Studies"... $42,000 working 9 months a year with 2 weeks off over Christmas and a week off at easter isn't a bad racket. They need so many they have billboards that say "Wanna Teach? When Can You Start". Dont have a bachelors degree? Well then thats your problem not mine... It takes approx 40 college classes to accumulate one (120 sh of credit) That means if you took one class a semester, Fall / Spring / Summer 1 and Summer 2, you would have it in just 10 years. An associates degree can be had in 5 years one class at a time - thus meaning there is no excuse a displaced factory worker isnt a Registered Nurse, or a Cosmetologist, or an Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic, or an Engineering Technician, or any of a zillion other good paying occupations. I got my "Associates of Applied Science" in "Aircraft Maintenence Technology" from a community college after I already had a bachelors and two masters... The people who find themselves shit out of luck simply failed to respond to the changing business envrionment and as such they found themselves shit out of luck. Whining doesnt fix anything and I still dont see the recession... as others pointed out everyone has new cars and big screen HDTV's at least those willing to earn them.[:D]

Vendaval -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 4:52:10 PM)
General reply to the discussion, more on the airlines fuel costs and speculation. "Airlines ask travelers to lobby about oil prices" "In letter to frequent filers, they ask for help in curbing speculation" AP Wed. July 9, 2008 "Northwest Airlines Corp. Chief Executive Douglas Steenland urged lawmakers in June to close loopholes that allow traders to dodge U.S. speculation limits by trading on foreign exchanges or through over-the-counter transactions. "Our highest priority is to tackle the overall price of fuel which is now 40 percent of our cost pie," Steenland told lawmakers. "Addressing excessive speculation is the most immediate remedy Congress could deliver." The letter from the airlines acknowledges that oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, prompting a need for the country to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. "However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation," the letter says. The letter says speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. The price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs, the letter says. It adds that regulations established decades ago by Congress to control excessive market speculation have been weakened or removed over the years. "We need your help," the letter to customers says. "Get more information and contact Congress." It is signed by the CEOs of Northwest Airlines, AirTran Airways, Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Hawaiian Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Midwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, United Airlines and US Airways." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25612414/

Thadius -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 4:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius You must have missed Obama's comment during the primaries. See what he says about bein upset because of how fast the prices went up, that should open your eyes. I do finally agree with you though, Obama is the candidate of change, he is constantly changing his positions on policies... public financing, pulling troops out of Iraq, 2nd ammendment and gun bans, FISA,... Guess you`re vote`n for McGrampa. Now that`s change you can take to the bank(if the bank hasn`t folded already). Actually, I haven't made up my mind on who I am voting for. I am starting to get a better idea of who I will not be voting for though.

Hanable -> RE: McCain Economic Advisor Phil Gramm says We are a nation of whiners ... (7/11/2008 9:07:40 PM)
I'm srry but i just have to voice my opinion here. to all u jerk offs who say its so easy to have a job.. try being a 19 year old female in rural ohio and find one. ive been unemployed for about 3 months.. no temp work no part time.. no job.. PERIOD. i have put in an application at every place i can think of. i have tried online job sites. ive put my name in 2 temp agencies and there is NO work.. if u wanna bitch at me and say "ur jsut not looking" or "it takes time" i call bull shit.. its been at least 3 months that i have had NO WORK. dont u dare tell me thing countries not in a decline. yes americans are whiners.. and no im not talking about the people who cant find work and can barely put food onthe table of there kids.. im talking about the white american who has 5 cars in there drive way, a boat, an RV, a moterbike, ATV's and that brand new flat screan plasma HDTV at home. you wanna explain to me how they get to spend there money on vacations and new cars and designer clothing and they "have it hard" cuz they didnt get to go to the island this year.. instead they had to go to the beach in California. but when middle class americans complain cuz they have to decide weather to buy a tank of gas or get there kids medicen there call whiners.. explain that to me cuz i jsut cant wrap my head around how stupid and ignorant some of you people are.. i jsut.. wow... H >:)

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