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Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:10:01 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		The Democratic Party of today is not The Democratic Party of 1960 or The Democratic Party of my parents.
The Democratic Party of today has morphed from being the "Party of the Workingman" to being a party of leftists.
My father was a Boston Firefighter and my mother was a telephone operator, both in Unions.
If they were alive today they wouldn't even *recognise* the Democratic Party much less vote for any of them.
Barak Obama says he wants to "do something" about "Genocides in Africa."
I didn't realise that stopping "genocides" on foreign continents was part of the Democratic platform.
Also, he says he wants to give "amnesty" to illegal aliens.
Sure, that'll help the "working man" in this country pushing their wages down even further much less ignoring the fact that those people *snuck into our country* in the first place. Sure, go against the wishes of more than 90% of the American People on that issue and expect to win! lol
Where do the Democrats stand on getting us out of "NAFTA" after 13 years of dismal job losses? The "NAFTA" that was signed into law by Clinton, another Democrat.
When Democrats get into bed with big business like they have with "NAFTA" they're *certainly* not on the side of the *workingman* in this country!
And Obama said that he would continue "outsourcing" of "some" jobs!
Also, Obama wants to "double foreign aid!"
That'll certainly make all the people displaced by Katrina feel all warm and fuzzy I'm sure!
Barak Obama is not a Democrat he's a Leftist.
Just look at his voting record.
He's the most leftist senator in the whole senate.
Even more leftist than booze addled Ted Kennedy
The Democrats are making the same mistake they always make.
They pick the most *leftist* candidate they can find and when they lose it's, "waaaaaa, someone stole the election!"
You'd think they'd learn by now.
Obama couldn't carry many large states that Hillary took in the primaries but the "Press" say he and McCain are "neck and neck."
From what I see out here many people don't like either of the two candidates but there'll be many people gritting their teeth as they pull the lever for McCain.
(Just for the record, I won't be voting for either. I don't like Democrats or Republicans)
How did the Democratic Party arrive here? And where are they?
What do they even stand for anymore? Does anyone know the answer to that question?
It's funny, Hillary Clinton threw her "support" behind Obama the other week but we haven't seen her out campaigning for him have we?
I don't think Obama will even take Massachusetts, there's a hell of a lot of Hillary supporters up there and many of them simply won't vote for Obama.
I think that this election is going to be a "slaughter".
American voters are simply not "Leftists."
We care about this country, not "stopping genocides in Africa."
The Clintons had it right, "it's the economy stupid."
I don't know what the Democrats even stand for anymore.
They ceased being "The Workingman's Party" long, long ago.
Does anyone in here know what the Democrats "stand for" anymore?

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"
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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:21:50 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's a good question. At least Hillary Clinton admitted her husband made a big mistake with NAFTA. I come from a family of hard core democrats, but if there was a candidate that planned to put a stop to NAFTA, I'd vote for them democrat, republican, or independent. The "global economy" is the cause of this recession. My question is, why aren't more of our supposedly intelligent polititions smart enough to see it? They might as well have obtained their degrees from a gum ball machine.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:23:09 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		The lesser of two evils.

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:26:22 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

That's a good question. At least Hillary Clinton admitted her husband made a big mistake with NAFTA. I come from a family of hard core democrats, but if there was a candidate that planned to put a stop to NAFTA, I'd vote for them democrat, republican, or independent. The "global economy" is the cause of this recession. My question is, why aren't more of our supposedly intelligent polititions smart enough to see it? They might as well have obtained their degrees from a gum ball machine.


Because these supposedly intelligent politicians are funding their campaigns from the enormous profits being made by companies using cheap Third World labor.

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:30:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

That's a good question. At least Hillary Clinton admitted her husband made a big mistake with NAFTA. I come from a family of hard core democrats, but if there was a candidate that planned to put a stop to NAFTA, I'd vote for them democrat, republican, or independent. The "global economy" is the cause of this recession. My question is, why aren't more of our supposedly intelligent polititions smart enough to see it? They might as well have obtained their degrees from a gum ball machine.


Defiant, I think most American voters would agree with you there!
There seems to be a philosophy in colleges and unis today that says that the U.S.govt. should be "responsable" for foreign countries.
I don't think it's any coincidence that Democrats use colleges and unis as rallying points for their leftish viewpoints!
They should instead be hanging around manufacturing facilities and Union Halls like they *used to*.
Obama is going to have his nuts cut off alright but not by Jesse Jackson.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:34:59 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Also, he says he wants to give "amnesty" to illegal aliens.


So did the Democratic Party of your parents...and your grandparents...'guestworker' programs started in the 1930s. 

Camelot was a myth, the Teamsters were no more 'for' the working man than the man in the moon, and both parties are nothing but vehicles for the rich to get richer at the expense of the voters.

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:36:28 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Morning Popeye,

The only definite thing that either of the big 2 parties stand for is being anti the other party.  That being said let me get to the Democrats.  Many of them have become complacent, getting their base from keeping people in the position of needing government programs.  They realised that it is easier to keep a consistant voting base under control by keeping them drinking at the governmental trough.  You are absolutely correct that they have drifted to the left, instead of being for helping people lift themselves out of poverty, they get their power by keeping people in it.  While there has been an effort over the last decade or 3 to integrate the education system (all levels) with this same type of mentality, so that they can indoctrinate the future generations to follow suit.

That is part in parcel why almost every Dem running has the same mantra about the evil rich folks making profits.  The concept is not to want everybody to be lifted up to that level, it is to bring the successful down to the level of everybody else.

Just my opinions,
Thadius

P.S. Watch the grandstanding they do about the congressional off shore drilling moratorium, they will scream bloody murder for at least the next month or so, all the while knowing that moratorium written and voted on during the 80's expires Sept. 30, 2008... yep this year.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:39:21 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The problem is not with democrats or republicans.  It is with the American People.

American Society is so polarized that one party cannot hope to have the support of more than a fraction of the population, hence it is indeed voting for the lesser of two evils.

People identify themselves as Latin American, African American, Irish American, Asian American, etc.  Each of those groups have their own agenda, their own concerns.  The worst thing is that it takes something like 9/11 to Unify the people of the United States, and then it lasts a few years.

The sad thing is that the polarization of the American People will probably contribute more to its failure as a nation than anything else, just like the similar situation in the Roman Empire.

The good news is that with the interconnected world market, when the US collapses, everyone will follow suit.  The world could not handle a multi trillion dollar a year market going down the toilet.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:42:30 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The problem is not with democrats or republicans.  It is with the American People.

American Society is so polarized that one party cannot hope to have the support of more than a fraction of the population, hence it is indeed voting for the lesser of two evils.

People identify themselves as Latin American, African American, Irish American, Asian American, etc.  Each of those groups have their own agenda, their own concerns.  The worst thing is that it takes something like 9/11 to Unify the people of the United States, and then it lasts a few years.

The sad thing is that the polarization of the American People will probably contribute more to its failure as a nation than anything else, just like the similar situation in the Roman Empire.

The good news is that with the interconnected world market, when the US collapses, everyone will follow suit.  The world could not handle a multi trillion dollar a year market going down the toilet.



The immortal words of The Duke say it the best.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:43:43 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 
Mr. Obama is getting his campaign money in 5,10 and 20 dollar donations from average everyday middle-class folks .

The party that still depends on big,grouped corporate campaign donations, is the party in decline.

Till recently,Popeye,the democrats have fallen way behind in campaign fund-raising compared to the republicans.

Now,we`re out raising them consistently and with more money than the year before.

Not sure where you`re coming from,Popeye,but you needn`t worry about the democratic party.


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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:46:20 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Morning Popeye,

The only definite thing that either of the big 2 parties stand for is being anti the other party.  That being said let me get to the Democrats.  Many of them have become complacent, getting their base from keeping people in the position of needing government programs.  They realised that it is easier to keep a consistant voting base under control by keeping them drinking at the governmental trough.  You are absolutely correct that they have drifted to the left, instead of being for helping people lift themselves out of poverty, they get their power by keeping people in it.  While there has been an effort over the last decade or 3 to integrate the education system (all levels) with this same type of mentality, so that they can indoctrinate the future generations to follow suit.

That is part in parcel why almost every Dem running has the same mantra about the evil rich folks making profits.  The concept is not to want everybody to be lifted up to that level, it is to bring the successful down to the level of everybody else.

Just my opinions,
Thadius

P.S. Watch the grandstanding they do about the congressional off shore drilling moratorium, they will scream bloody murder for at least the next month or so, all the while knowing that moratorium written and voted on during the 80's expires Sept. 30, 2008... yep this year.


Wow, talk about conspiracy theories.  Do you also believe that the Apollo moon landings were shot in Hollywood?

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:51:40 AM   
dadawaits4u


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/19/2008
Status: offline 		Should we look at another candidate? in question,, Bob Barr?

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:54:39 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		If you disagree, at least add something constructive to the discussion.  Which part do you disagree with?  That the education system is filled with leftists (liberals) ?  That many Dems use the class warfare mentality to shore up support?  That Dems get alot of their support from those that hover around the poverty line? 

Just curious,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 9:56:17 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Wow, talk about conspiracy theories.


Not realizing that career politicians  are exactly as corrupt and venal as described would constitute believing a fairy tale.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/16/2008 9:57:02 AM >

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 10:05:56 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The problem is not with democrats or republicans.  It is with the American People.

American Society is so polarized that one party cannot hope to have the support of more than a fraction of the population, hence it is indeed voting for the lesser of two evils.



...which leads to the place where people start voting against a candidate rather than voting for one. This is dangerous because, over time, it leads to the democratic process being most strongly influenced by those who merely attack the opponent rather than those with a vision of their own.

i'm not sure how to avoid or pull back from that position. People have to want to, and sadly i think partisan bickering is something that few people want to give up.

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 10:12:14 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Jesse Jackson was right about Obama "talking down" to black people.
But, Obama is also "talking down" to everyone.
He's *telling* us what *HE* wants to do not *ASKING US* what WE want him to do!
The People shouldn't be afraid of the govt, the govt. should be afraid of The People!

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 10:20:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


Mr. Obama is getting his campaign money in 5,10 and 20 dollar donations from average everyday middle-class folks .

The party that still depends on big,grouped corporate campaign donations, is the party in decline.

Till recently,Popeye,the democrats have fallen way behind in campaign fund-raising compared to the republicans.

Now,we`re out raising them consistently and with more money than the year before.

Not sure where you`re coming from,Popeye,but you needn`t worry about the democratic party.




LOL, Owner, you need to get a list of Obama's donors!
Remember where he was when he made that statement about people in flyoverland "clinging to their guns and religion?"
Sure, some people are mailing in $10-$15 each but that kind of donation doesn't get you to the big show!
The people who are giving him the really big bucks want "unlimited H1b visas" and more "Outsourcing" of jobs!
And he's taking their fucking money!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 10:56:07 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Remember where he was when he made that statement about people in flyoverland "clinging to their guns and religion?"

I try and ignore a lot of your BS, you are after all an admitted oathbreaker, but I await a definition of "flyover land" that excludes Barack Obama's home or a retraction and admission you used a convenient buzz word that had no bearing on the discussion.

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:10:49 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Remember where he was when he made that statement about people in flyoverland "clinging to their guns and religion?"

I try and ignore a lot of your BS, you are after all an admitted oathbreaker, but I await a definition of "flyover land" that excludes Barack Obama's home or a retraction and admission you used a convenient buzz word that had no bearing on the discussion.


DomKen, "flyover land" is a Hollywood expression meaning anywhere between the two coasts.
Oh, that's another reason that Obama's going to lose, he has "Hollywood" on his side doesn't he?
I wonder if Babs Streisand will be addressing the DNC next month?
Hollywood is *loaded* with Leftists!
Maybe that guy who played "Lou Grant" on the Mary Tyler Moore Show will be there! And of course Rob Reiner!
DomKen, is there something in the water in Hollywood that makes people out there take leave of their senses?
You know what I'd absolutely *LOVE* to see is young Patches Kennedy addressing the DNC!!! Oh God! lolol

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Has The Democratic Party Lost It's Way? - 7/16/2008 11:23:42 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		The only part of his homestate that will vote for him are Cook County... and a small area near East St. Louis.  The rest of the state is what I would consider fly-over that will not be voting for him.  Just take a look at the county by county or precinct by precinct results.  Even if you leave Illinois out of the discussion, he is going to have a hard time carrying states that "should" go Dem, like Michigan.  Do you honestly believe he can carry the states that helped him beat Hillary?  He won alot of caucases in states that will go Repub in Nov.

quote:

source today's cbs poll

About one in five of those who say they voted for Clinton in the primaries now plan to support McCain in November. And just 29 percent of former Clinton supporters who plan to vote for Obama feel "enthusiastic" about the candidate.


So 20% of the people that supported Clinton are voting for the other side, and 71% of the people (Hillary supporters) that are now planning on voting for Obama are less than enthusiastic about him... sounds very promising.  Of course one must also consider that a huge block of people are not being polled, those that only have cell phones, so all stats are probably off quite abit.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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