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White house bastages - 7/16/2008 3:39:05 PM   
Gwynvyd


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Let me get this right... They can do *Anything* and claim Executive Privilege and bloody get away with it?

When the *uck did I move to Russia Comrads?

When?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I swear to god.. If I see anyone claim the Democrats are "losing it" or are evil I just might be forced to choke them with thier own shit.


The worst we did in the last 10 years was shroom slap some bitch in the oval office.

Gwyn,
Rightously pissed off



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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 3:40:46 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Actually almost every President in the last 50 years has claimed "executive privilige" in court cases.  It's not something that is new.  Clinton did it more than a few times. 

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 4:11:54 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		And this isn't even a court case.  

Unless of course, someone is saying that they are in favor of having people tried and punished by a non-judicial cabal of rich and powerful politicians outside of the judicial branch?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/16/2008 4:13:41 PM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 4:37:53 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And this isn't even a court case.  

Unless of course, someone is saying that they are in favor of having people tried and punished by a non-judicial cabal of rich and powerful politicians outside of the judicial branch?



...i was under the impression that Congress was permitted some degree of oversight of the executive. To suggest that the process that has sparked this recent run of executive priviliges is, in some way dishonourable or wrong, surely is to hold the US constitution in contempt.
If Congress isn't permitted to hold the executive to account then who is?

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 8:28:43 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Can a president use EP to cover up a crime?


Is the POTUS above the law?

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 8:41:13 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Link was not needed for me.

Now first of all, I would be a republican, if there were any. The democrats are not much better, but 2008 is their turn.

This administration is breaking new ground in the hubris department. And I will tell you this, if by any chance another "republican" administration is elected, US citizens better just forget about traveling abroad.

But here we have a cabinet that wants certain things.

They want complete immunity from any international jurisdiction when it comes to war crimes, and at the same time they want the tenets of this law applied to everyone else avidly.

They hand off the spoils of war to private firms, one of the biggest of which has now moved off of US soil. They used the arms and legs of our strong young Women and Men to fight battles that were strictly in their self interest. They took care of their buddies and that was it, the rest of us get shit. In fact they are getting worse, there is an article in the Plain Dealer that comes out and claims that they play a waiting game with veterans, denying claims, and stalling until the claimants die. You don't think this could be true of our heroes do you ?

Clinton and his blowjob brigade were nothing compared to this.

Think I need the link ?

T

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 8:47:13 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I would be a republican, if there were any.


I used to be a liberal, but I've grown more conservative with age.  I've swung over to the Republican party, but I cannot recognize it any more.

It used to abhor spending.  Now it has set records for spending, after Clinton managed the budget responsibly.

It used to believe in limited government.  Now it is expanding executive powers at a breakneck pace.

It used to be leery of foreign entanglements.  Now it has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and threatened North Korea and Iran.

Where did the party go?  I'd like to join it.


_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 9:20:19 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy



...i was under the impression that Congress was permitted some degree of oversight of the executive. To suggest that the process that has sparked this recent run of executive priviliges is, in some way dishonourable or wrong, surely is to hold the US constitution in contempt.
If Congress isn't permitted to hold the executive to account then who is?


How about professional jurists who aren't accountable to voters for their jobs?  You, know, that whole judical branch/balance of powers/'all cases at law' thing? 


And Nixon tried this executive privilege stuff against the judiciary and was shot down long before this current game, so the the contempt here would seem to be all yours.  

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/16/2008 9:25:07 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can a president use EP to cover up a crime?


Is the POTUS above the law?


As theNixon ruling made clear, no he can't/isn't. 

Since the judicial branch has already exhausted any possible criminal case, the question is should Congress be allowed to try and/or to punish US citizens over ideology outside of a courtroom, ala McCarthy?

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 2:08:08 AM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I would be a republican, if there were any.


I used to be a liberal, but I've grown more conservative with age.  I've swung over to the Republican party, but I cannot recognize it any more.

It used to abhor spending.  Now it has set records for spending, after Clinton managed the budget responsibly.

It used to believe in limited government.  Now it is expanding executive powers at a breakneck pace.

It used to be leery of foreign entanglements.  Now it has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and threatened North Korea and Iran.

Where did the party go?  I'd like to join it.



It is called a moderate democrat.... I should know.. I am one.

I am socialy progressive.. but pretty damn conservative on every thing else.  A friend who is a Rep. and works for the RNC says I am too conservative. LOL  ( I beat him by miles )

They ( the Bush admin ) broke the party.. killed it dead.

The Democrats have been heading more towords the center right for a number of years.. but still staying decently socialy progressive.

Once the Reps gave thier party over to the Jesus Crispies for some cash.. it was all over with. That was the begining of the end.

So sad.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 2:11:52 AM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy



...i was under the impression that Congress was permitted some degree of oversight of the executive. To suggest that the process that has sparked this recent run of executive priviliges is, in some way dishonourable or wrong, surely is to hold the US constitution in contempt.
If Congress isn't permitted to hold the executive to account then who is?


How about professional jurists who aren't accountable to voters for their jobs?  You, know, that whole judical branch/balance of powers/'all cases at law' thing? 


And Nixon tried this executive privilege stuff against the judiciary and was shot down long before this current game, so the the contempt here would seem to be all yours.  



Nixon wasnt a scary son of a bitch.. and didnt have the tenticles into all the shit W has. People *Laughed* at Nixon.. and he basicaly took the fall and was a patsy.

He was no where near the out right criminal this whole bunch is.

No where near.

plus Nixon was honest, likable, and upstanding comparitively. *winks*

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 2:17:49 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can a president use EP to cover up a crime?


Is the POTUS above the law?


Yes! He is. He is the commander in chief of the US Armed Forces. He who has the big gun wins. There is not one person in this or any other country who the president could not order killed in a CIA / Military Black Op. (Just ask Vince Foster! oh you can't hes dead.) Now, while they would never actually use an aviator in this capacity, if I were recalled to active duty and given an executive order to shoot someone I would do so without question or hesitation. If the President of the United States said to walk into congress, kneel Pelosi down and put two in the back of her head I wouldnt even ask why... If the president said "Drop a nuclear weapon on New York" I would do so. Why is above my paygrade and not my problem.  Maybe he is just pissed at the Yankees, however its equally possible that there has been a lab accident releasing a biological agent thats is going to kill hundreds of millions. Its not my place to question the President, an unwavering unqualified unquestioned belief in the unified chain of command is all that anyone serving the president needs.  All anyone can do is trust that the man elected will act in our best interests. Buy yes, the president is above the law and always has been. Thats why we had pilots bombing Laos, doctors giving Plutonium to pregnant women in Rochester NY, the CIA dealing drugs, rebels invading Cuba, etc...

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 6:27:52 AM   
MisterBeast


Posts: 142
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah you know heres more on the criminals in the whitehouse, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs

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(in reply to DomAviator)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 8:03:48 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I knew DA and I were agreeing way too much lately.

The President may be above the law in this country, but that doesn't mean everywhere. If that were true, covert operations would not be necessary would they ?

But then even in this country, there is an impeachment process. Even though it has only been used about three times, it does exist, and that would imply that the President is not above the law. Can't have it both ways.

And for all the Gordon Liddy types, and don't get me wrong I like Liddy, but what if your beloved Furher, err, Presidente, ordered you to kill yourself ? If the $64 question is too much, let's try the $32 question. You are ordered to kill someone, you find out the mark is a good friend, or better yet a family member. What then ?

I will even stipulate that if that friend or family member is involved in covert ops the rules are different and will specify that they are not "players". In this hypothetical instance, they are innocent, but have have seen something they shouldn't have seen. Let's say totally by accident. And just to make it interesting, let's say that it is your fault.

What I am saying I guess is that there are different rules for different situations. Let's make this as bad as possible to see just how much Liddy there is in people. I don't even know if Liddy would do this. You must kill your Wife and kids because YOU left something out on the kitchen table one day and they saw it, read it, whatever.

Unquestioning obedience has already been hashed out in Nuremburg.

If the President truly is above the law, it is a simple matter. Kill political opponents, and a few supreme court justices and restack the court so that the Presidential term limits are declared unconstitutional. Then, do whatever it takes to get reelected ad infinitum. Should be doable in four years if one gets started right away. Hell they wouldn't have a problem with the Castro family at all, they would probably be taking lessons from them.

So if the doctrine of the Commander In Chief being above the law holds true, that would have to hold true for leaders of other countries would it not ? History has proven that they are not.

And then to say that we are somehow different, just because this is the US, I would like to know what qualifies. As nations go we are a child, many were here before us, and it is starting to look like many will remain after we are gone. So it must boil down to one thing - Might makes right.

So what is next ? We send in Hans Blix to do inspections in Russia and China for WMD ? Even little Israel ? We don't even to that in Iran or North Korea. They won't put up with it. And if North Korea will tell us to go fuck off, what do you think is going to happen when Russia gets sick of our shit ?

If might does indeed make right, we better make damn sure we got the most of it if we want to maintain this bully attitude.

Seems I remember a story, happened almost 2,000 years ago. Some people who were above the law ordered the execution of a prophet and scholar for no other reason than some of his beliefs or assertations. He had never hurt anyone. Anyone remember his name ? (hint, almost everyone remembers his name). They obviously did not kill his ideas.

So might makes right. Well everyone gets old. I backed down from a fight not too long ago, took a look at the guy and just said no. Twenty years ago he would be embedded in 5/8" inch drywall a foot deep, and be wearing alot of blood.

So when are we going to grow up as a nation, and stop playing these games ? If you think Russia started the cold war, you are wrong. Every fucking time I look into history and find where we were fucked with, when I look back a bit further I find out why. And I don't like what I see.

T

(in reply to MisterBeast)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 8:34:51 AM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And for all the Gordon Liddy types, and don't get me wrong I like Liddy, but what if your beloved Furher, err, Presidente, ordered you to kill yourself ?


Yes. That was always a possibility. Thats generally how your widow gets a Medal Of Honor awarded posthumously. During the Battle of Mogadishu Gordon and Shughart knew it was a one way ticket, but they ASKED to go in anyway because there were four wounded men aboard Super Six Two... Essentially it was those two against the whole fucking city but they did it anyway because nobody gets left behind...

Military history is full of men who have put their mission and their buddies above themselves and who have died for their cause and their brothers. During the 12 day rescue of BAT 21 Bravo, a downed airman in Vietnam, eight aircraft were lost, 14 people were killed, 2 were captured, and 3 more were on the ground in the middle of 30,000 + enemy troops and then a SEAL team went in to get Bat 21 out.   

The military is full of people who will gladly die if needed...

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 10:11:12 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You've read the Turner Diaries haven't you DA?

T

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 11:43:41 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

But yes, the president is above the law and always has been.


......is that how the constitution is written? Or is the POTUS just allowed to function as a dictator? What prevents a POTUS from declaring they are El Presidente for life?

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 11:45:50 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy



...i was under the impression that Congress was permitted some degree of oversight of the executive. To suggest that the process that has sparked this recent run of executive priviliges is, in some way dishonourable or wrong, surely is to hold the US constitution in contempt.
If Congress isn't permitted to hold the executive to account then who is?


How about professional jurists who aren't accountable to voters for their jobs?  You, know, that whole judical branch/balance of powers/'all cases at law' thing? 


...apologies, i'm not sure of your point here.....


quote:

And Nixon tried this executive privilege stuff against the judiciary and was shot down long before this current game, so the the contempt here would seem to be all yours.  


......how am i holding law in contempt when i argue that it should apply to all, equally?


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 12:38:18 PM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I would be a republican, if there were any.


I used to be a liberal, but I've grown more conservative with age.  I've swung over to the Republican party, but I cannot recognize it any more.

It used to abhor spending.  Now it has set records for spending, after Clinton managed the budget responsibly.

It used to believe in limited government.  Now it is expanding executive powers at a breakneck pace.

It used to be leery of foreign entanglements.  Now it has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and threatened North Korea and Iran.

Where did the party go?  I'd like to join it.



It is called a moderate democrat.... I should know.. I am one.

I am socialy progressive.. but pretty damn conservative on every thing else.  A friend who is a Rep. and works for the RNC says I am too conservative. LOL  ( I beat him by miles )

They ( the Bush admin ) broke the party.. killed it dead.

The Democrats have been heading more towords the center right for a number of years.. but still staying decently socialy progressive.

Once the Reps gave thier party over to the Jesus Crispies for some cash.. it was all over with. That was the begining of the end.

So sad.

Gwyn




The Jesus Crispies? Oh i am so gonna borrow that one G  But sadly, you are right with the rest of it. I too am a very socially liberal dem but fiscally conservative. I have a hard time with my party these days as well, but they could not fuck up enough to get me to cross over to the party of Bush Inc.   

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Without saying a word
I told you what I am
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(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 12:44:58 PM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		"If the President of the United States said to walk into congress, kneel Pelosi down and put two in the back of her head I wouldnt even ask why... If the president said "Drop a nuclear weapon on New York" I would do so." Dom Aviator
 
 
Where to start? Well, I am glad to see you finally admitting you absolutely will not and do not think for yourself, and that you would would follow the orders of an illiterate alcoholic incompetent buffoon because by the virtue of cash and nepotism he bought..errr...fucking stole, the office of the presidency.   DA I have admittedly tried to see the rationale in some of your posts, you know, being a masochist and all, but for god's sake you can't really tell me you would drop the big one on NYC because Dubya told you to? If that monkey told me that my house was on fire and I could smell the smoke I would still wait for the fire dep't because if his mouth is moving, chances are he is lying.


_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 20
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