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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 1:04:07 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

The military is full of people who will gladly die if needed...

And $diety bless them for that.  It just terrifies me to know that the Chimp in Chief is in the position to make the decision as to who "needs" to die.  Let's hope he doesn't instigate another "not quite a war" on someone who can fight back before he's punted out of the oval office.

~stef


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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 1:30:55 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

"If the President of the United States said to walk into congress, kneel Pelosi down and put two in the back of her head I wouldnt even ask why... If the president said "Drop a nuclear weapon on New York" I would do so." Dom Aviator
 
 
Where to start? Well, I am glad to see you finally admitting you absolutely will not and do not think for yourself, and that you would would follow the orders of an illiterate alcoholic incompetent buffoon because by the virtue of cash and nepotism he bought..errr...fucking stole, the office of the presidency.   DA I have admittedly tried to see the rationale in some of your posts, you know, being a masochist and all, but for god's sake you can't really tell me you would drop the big one on NYC because Dubya told you to? If that monkey told me that my house was on fire and I could smell the smoke I would still wait for the fire dep't because if his mouth is moving, chances are he is lying.

I came to this thread late,good to see someone's been minding the store,You were far too generous in Your restraint Dear Lady .When dealing with some ,small angrier words are more effective ...but that's just my opinion

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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 1:38:57 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Dear Gwyn ,methinks You are far too young and trusting to know just how scary Nixon was,this was a paranoid ,delusional asshole.None of us were laughing when we read about an enemies list or the myriad list of 'dirty tricks" nor his pathological fear of all things Kennedy...Nixon practically invented enemies under each and every rock in D.C. not to mention inventing a whole consticuency out of his own fertile imagination he called it the "silent majority"they were so silent no one save Nixon ever talked to them....No Gwyn a delusional paranoid schizo in the White House was never a laughing matter...he criminalised the Office of The Presidency...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Aynne)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 3:31:47 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Aynne and Gwynvyd,
 
I think that many Americans are a combination of red and blue, conservative in regards to financial policies and liberal on social issues.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 4:40:11 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Oh how quickly we forget... No sense into making a long list of individuals... lets just look at the records set by our previous president.

quote:

source: http://www.prorev.com/legacy.htm
RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- Second president accused of rape**
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

 
There has been corruption in the White House, as long as a single man has held the office, although some have taken it to unique levels.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 4:54:53 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


......how am i holding law in contempt when i argue that it should apply to all, equally?



Allowing Congress to usurp the job of the judiciary, by holding criminal proceedings, and dishing out punishments to those who aren't allowed legal protections available in court, doesn't strike me as what is meant by seperation of powers or due process...this would be the same Congress that talks about passing non-judicially reviewable statues.

Don't know why the worst case/slippery slope outcome of that sort of thing doesn't bother others, but it certainly bothers me.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 5:12:37 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Dear Gwyn ,methinks You are far too young and trusting to know just how scary Nixon was,this was a paranoid ,delusional asshole.None of us were laughing when we read about an enemies list or the myriad list of 'dirty tricks" nor his pathological fear of all things Kennedy...Nixon practically invented enemies under each and every rock in D.C. not to mention inventing a whole consticuency out of his own fertile imagination he called it the "silent majority"they were so silent no one save Nixon ever talked to them....No Gwyn a delusional paranoid schizo in the White House was never a laughing matter...he criminalised the Office of The Presidency...


Nixon made some incredibly foolish mistakes, but his crimes were not that "scary" Mike.  Nixon's largest mistake was trying to cover up the CRP activities after the Watergate break in.  He was wrong, but I really hate how people try to downplay his accomplishments.

Nixon ended the Vietnam War whether people want to admit or not.  He did exactly what people are screaming for Bush to do now.  He steadily withdrew troops over a 4 year time span.   He was a forward thinking man, and he knew enough to extend diplomacy to China before anyone else thought of it.  It was a brilliant tactical move in the Cold War.  He is the one that brought about detente with the Soviet Union. 

Domestically he did a lot of things that he deserves tremendous credit for.  He is responsible for the Environmental Protection Agency, and for finally dealing with serious pollution problems in the 70's.  He created the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. 

I know a lot of people don't know it, but he is responsible for peacefully resolving school desegregation in the South.  He took the middle ground on that issue and accomplished that goal without violence.  It was called the "Southern Strategy" if you don't believe me and want to look it up. 

By the way, guess who was the first to call for comprehensive health insurance?
It wasn't Hillary.  It was Richard M. Nixon.  Guess who killed the bill he created that would have done just that?  It was the AFL-CIO and the UAW.  If it hadn't been for the damn unions and the Democratic Party, we would have had comprehensive health coverage 30 years ago. 

He was reelected in a landslide, and he was a great President.  He made some really stupid mistakes, but IMO he was one of the most effective Presidents we ever had. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/17/2008 5:15:27 PM >

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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 5:25:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And this isn't even a court case.  

Unless of course, someone is saying that they are in favor of having people tried and punished by a non-judicial cabal of rich and powerful politicians outside of the judicial branch?



Nah, a Federal Grand Jury is just fine.



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RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 5:26:30 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


......how am i holding law in contempt when i argue that it should apply to all, equally?



Allowing Congress to usurp the job of the judiciary, by holding criminal proceedings, and dishing out punishments to those who aren't allowed legal protections available in court, doesn't strike me as what is meant by seperation of powers or due process...this would be the same Congress that talks about passing non-judicially reviewable statues.

Don't know why the worst case/slippery slope outcome of that sort of thing doesn't bother others, but it certainly bothers me.


It's like arguing about sewer rats. Who really *cares* what happens to anyone in the White House, OR Congress.

Let 'em eat each-other up. Maybe it'll keep them out of (more) trouble?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 6:19:08 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

"If the President of the United States said to walk into congress, kneel Pelosi down and put two in the back of her head I wouldnt even ask why... If the president said "Drop a nuclear weapon on New York" I would do so." Dom Aviator
 
 
Where to start? Well, I am glad to see you finally admitting you absolutely will not and do not think for yourself, and that you would would follow the orders of an illiterate alcoholic incompetent buffoon because by the virtue of cash and nepotism he bought..errr...fucking stole, the office of the presidency.   DA I have admittedly tried to see the rationale in some of your posts, you know, being a masochist and all, but for god's sake you can't really tell me you would drop the big one on NYC because Dubya told you to? If that monkey told me that my house was on fire and I could smell the smoke I would still wait for the fire dep't because if his mouth is moving, chances are he is lying.



Aynne, yes I would and so would any other officer that was entrusted with such devices.  Nowhere in nuclear command and control policies is there the line "if the flight crew thinks its right and likes the president". Take the nuclear strike out of the equation , how about if post 9-11 the president ordered a fighter pilot to shoot down a US registry civilian airliner? That right there would mean killing 200+ american citizens...  There is no room for "i like the president" or "I agree with his decision".  Obey or resign your commission.  Is Bush or any other president  likely to order NY be nuked? Doubtful, but if he ever did there is probably a damned good reason... For example a disease outbreak that must be contained at all costs, or a scenario such as the one depicted in Fail Safe where we were trading "a city for a city" following an accidental launch. Its not the militarys responsibility to debate policy just to carry it out.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 6:47:53 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Since the judicial branch has already exhausted any possible criminal case, the question is should Congress be allowed to try and/or to punish US citizens over ideology outside of a courtroom, ala McCarthy?

******************************************************************************************


Allowing Congress to usurp the job of the judiciary, by holding criminal proceedings, and dishing out punishments to those who aren't allowed legal protections available in court, doesn't strike me as what is meant by seperation of powers or due process...this would be the same Congress that talks about passing non-judicially reviewable statues.

Don't know why the worst case/slippery slope outcome of that sort of thing doesn't bother others, but it certainly bothers me.


It's like arguing about sewer rats. Who really *cares* what happens to anyone in the White House, OR Congress.

Let 'em eat each-other up. Maybe it'll keep them out of (more) trouble?




Ok, we can count you as one who doesn't care if McCarthyism resurfaces.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:08:37 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And for all the Gordon Liddy types, and don't get me wrong I like Liddy, but what if your beloved Furher, err, Presidente, ordered you to kill yourself ?


Yes. That was always a possibility. Thats generally how your widow gets a Medal Of Honor awarded posthumously. During the Battle of Mogadishu Gordon and Shughart knew it was a one way ticket, but they ASKED to go in anyway because there were four wounded men aboard Super Six Two... Essentially it was those two against the whole fucking city but they did it anyway because nobody gets left behind...

Military history is full of men who have put their mission and their buddies above themselves and who have died for their cause and their brothers. During the 12 day rescue of BAT 21 Bravo, a downed airman in Vietnam, eight aircraft were lost, 14 people were killed, 2 were captured, and 3 more were on the ground in the middle of 30,000 + enemy troops and then a SEAL team went in to get Bat 21 out.   

The military is full of people who will gladly die if needed...


I think you got the F'ed up idea of My CO told me to do it, so I had better.. with Semper Fi. There is a *HUGE* differance.

Yes, no one gets left behind if at all possible. Every one makes it home. That is one of the first rules.

However there is a differance between people becoming a War Criminal for " I was just following orders" and some one being valant and honorable.. and going in after someone left behind. ( even at grave danger to them selves. )

Gwyn,

Army Brat to a Drill Sarg Dad

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:10:52 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

"If the President of the United States said to walk into congress, kneel Pelosi down and put two in the back of her head I wouldnt even ask why... If the president said "Drop a nuclear weapon on New York" I would do so." Dom Aviator
 
 
Where to start? Well, I am glad to see you finally admitting you absolutely will not and do not think for yourself, and that you would would follow the orders of an illiterate alcoholic incompetent buffoon because by the virtue of cash and nepotism he bought..errr...fucking stole, the office of the presidency.   DA I have admittedly tried to see the rationale in some of your posts, you know, being a masochist and all, but for god's sake you can't really tell me you would drop the big one on NYC because Dubya told you to? If that monkey told me that my house was on fire and I could smell the smoke I would still wait for the fire dep't because if his mouth is moving, chances are he is lying.



Ok.. that just made me wet.... Damn.. I think I love you.

*chuckles*

Gwyn

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Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:16:05 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Dear Gwyn ,methinks You are far too young and trusting to know just how scary Nixon was,this was a paranoid ,delusional asshole.None of us were laughing when we read about an enemies list or the myriad list of 'dirty tricks" nor his pathological fear of all things Kennedy...Nixon practically invented enemies under each and every rock in D.C. not to mention inventing a whole consticuency out of his own fertile imagination he called it the "silent majority"they were so silent no one save Nixon ever talked to them....No Gwyn a delusional paranoid schizo in the White House was never a laughing matter...he criminalised the Office of The Presidency...


*winks* I know... I have read lots on Tricky Dick. However.. knowing lots on what Dubbya actualy has carried out.. and has in the pipeline... oh hell.. Nixon is a saint.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:30:14 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


......how am i holding law in contempt when i argue that it should apply to all, equally?



Allowing Congress to usurp the job of the judiciary, by holding criminal proceedings, and dishing out punishments to those who aren't allowed legal protections available in court, doesn't strike me as what is meant by seperation of powers or due process...this would be the same Congress that talks about passing non-judicially reviewable statues.

Don't know why the worst case/slippery slope outcome of that sort of thing doesn't bother others, but it certainly bothers me.



actualy.. this is how it works.. there is a *REASON* why it is called Checks and Balances.

http://cahsa.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/checkandbalance.jpg

Both the Judicial and Legislative have to be in accord to boot someones ass out. Judical determines if the actions were legal or not. Then the Legislative try and impeach. However.. it is usaly the Legislative branch that brings up the issues first to the judicial branch for a review.

They both have to work together.

Civics 101 folks. They are working as they are ment to work. Legislative branch is there to be the voice of the people. it balances out the voice of the prez, and past or current prez elected yahoos in the supreme court. They are supposed to all balance each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

Be warry when they ask for more executive powers... and they have the whole last 7 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1KNlww4hdE

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:31:43 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well it appears the rehabilitation of old Tricky Dick Nixon is complete,most effective president,a saint...does anyone recall the tapes.The man was a lunatic paranoid individual who actually had Joe freakin Nameth on an enemies list.Now I don't know about the rest of you but that scared the shit out of me...and lets not forget the Constitutional crisis he caused with that little cover-up thing,the breaking in to the psychiatrist's office the Pentagon Papers and the list goes on and on

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 7/17/2008 7:49:33 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:36:55 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Well it appears the rehabilitation of old Tricky Dick Nixon is complete,most effective president,a saint...does anyone recall the tapes.The man was a lunatic paranoid individual who actually had Joe freakin Nameth on an enemies list.Now I don't know about the rest of you but hat scared the shit out of me...and lets not forget the Constitutional crisis he caused with that little cobver-up thing,the breaking in to the psychiatrist's office the Pentagon Papers and the list goes on and on


I like how you completely glossed over every accomplishment I mentioned Mike.  I didn't say he was a saint.  I specifically said he made some incredibly foolish errors.  But I for one can see past that and recognize the accomplishments he made.  He did more than JFK and LBJ combined. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/17/2008 7:37:26 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:39:23 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		From the same link I provided earlier....more little tidbits of the squeaky clean Clinton White house...

quote:


- FBI files misappropriated by the White House: c. 900
- Estimated number of witnesses quoted in FBI files misappropriated by the White House: 18,000
- Number of witnesses who developed medical problems at critical points in Clinton scandals investigation (Tucker, Hale, both McDougals, Lindsey): 5
- Problem areas listed in a memo by Clinton's own lawyer in preparation for the president's defense: 40
- Number of witnesses and critics of Clinton subjected to IRS audit: 45
- Number of names placed in a White House secret database without the knowledge of those named: c. 200,000
- Number of women involved with Clinton who claim to have been physically threatened (Sally Perdue, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Juantia Broaddrick): 6


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:42:56 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

From the same link I provided earlier....more little tidbits of the squeaky clean Clinton White house...

quote:


- FBI files misappropriated by the White House: c. 900
- Estimated number of witnesses quoted in FBI files misappropriated by the White House: 18,000
- Number of witnesses who developed medical problems at critical points in Clinton scandals investigation (Tucker, Hale, both McDougals, Lindsey): 5
- Problem areas listed in a memo by Clinton's own lawyer in preparation for the president's defense: 40
- Number of witnesses and critics of Clinton subjected to IRS audit: 45
- Number of names placed in a White House secret database without the knowledge of those named: c. 200,000
- Number of women involved with Clinton who claim to have been physically threatened (Sally Perdue, Gennifer Flowers, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Juantia Broaddrick): 6



Still the best prez I have seen in my life time.. I dont care what that says... Happy I voted for him both times.

Hell I would have blown him....

I'd take one for the country.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: White house bastages - 7/17/2008 7:53:00 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Slaveboy Gwynvyd had used the saint line not you,yes the man had some spectacular sucesses,the reaproacment with China chief amongst them....he also conducted one of the most paranoid schizoid presidency's in history and lets not forget the secret war in Cambodia either

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 40
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