RE: I couldn't help Myself

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Sky42 -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 5:45:35 PM)
... This seems to be like a person who fishes competatively complaining about a hobby fisherman who uses the same "professional" rig. Outside of your protocol and the way you were taught, leathers don't necessarily mean anything at all, other than a sexy outfit that looks good an conveys a particular attitude, provides useful binding points, protects when using semi-dangerous toys, etc. Likewise, unless someone was taught using the same methods, they won't think anything in particular about you wearing them, certainly not what knowledge you may or may not have simply by what clothes you have on. So, for those who know what the badges mean, a soldiers badges can tell a lot of their skills and history, but for everyone else, it's just shiny. Personally, I have no idea what if any , particular leathers do or don't mean. Frankly, I'm not positive I want to. It smacks me as a bit of an elitist attitude and incredibly conceited. I mean, it's not, after all, like there was some secret code and lessons handed down by some supreme being dictating how and when things should be done. Who authorized the person who taught you that they could teach? Nor as if there is some official governing body over the use and wear of leather. Do I pay a membership fee to get in on this exclusive club that will give me the opportunity to gain the 'right' to wear it? Should I look down on everyone else who has not ever heard of such things and scoff at those who are not trained by the card-carrying instructors in how to use a single-tail? How does one become an instructor anyway? Do you get a certificate? Can I put in on my resume; "Completed 80 hours of instruction on needle-play to a satisfactory level" ? I'm not saying you are not all that with a whip, but seriously do you understand how believing and saying such a thing makes you sound? A collar, on the other hand, is a bit different. If I'm around others in the lifestyle, anyone wearing any sort of collar or necklace that is obviously more than just flash, then I'll likely assume that they are a sub and owned, even if there are no other indicators. Collars are a rather universal symbol in the lifestyle, though I suppose some have particular beliefs about what particular styles of collars mean, it all boils down to being a sub.

DominaSusan -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 5:56:50 PM)
I would consider it a great personal achievement to earn leathers and maybe someday I will reach that goal. I have a great mentor-kind of like being an apprentice to a master Master. It would mean something to me to earn my leathers and I absolutely did not start out as a submissive. In fact I’ve never bottomed, which puts me at a great disadvantage since I don’t know what it feels like and thus can get carried away. I have given a collar to my slave, it was an emotional night. This brings up a really good topic. We did a private collaring and I am wondering (and I know he wants) something public. Any experience and ideas are appreciated.

LadyPact -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 5:57:25 PM)
Sky, that was a very well thought out response.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 6:10:59 PM)
You have to understand that there are two different things going on. There is the Leather community where tradition and earning is important. There is the Fetish community where leather is a fetish, which means it empowers the person. The two sometimes overlap. The two need to understand, in my opinion, that what the other community does and how the other community acts isn't a direct insult to theirs. Master Fire

HeavansKeeper -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 6:14:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sky42 A collar, on the other hand, is a bit different. If I'm around others in the lifestyle, anyone wearing any sort of collar or necklace that is obviously more than just flash, then I'll likely assume that they are a sub and owned, even if there are no other indicators. Collars are a rather universal symbol in the lifestyle, though I suppose some have particular beliefs about what particular styles of collars mean, it all boils down to being a sub. The snipped part of your post was interesting, but was too many tables full of food for me to start with and not bite off more than I could chew. It is lamentable that there is a loss of respect for leather. You bring up a good point, collars are universal to the D/s world. The same way a blue uniform and gold badge is universal. Enough people know what it means for it not to be questioned. There are still people who impersonate police officers, and more people who wear collars for fun/sexiness/ " 'cause I can". Collars are part of what I consider a leather culture. Perhaps that "relic" of power exchange is kept because it marks the simplest difference. "Can I fuck this one or not?" ("fuck" can be replaced by "own, love, train, keep, have, etc." if you feel that's what people want out of uncollared creatures.) Sometimes the leather culture overlaps with basic clothing (shirt/pants) but not often. Bracers, anklets, collars, hats are all not NEEDED, and hence the argument "Well I just like to wear it." loses credence. Of course, many people (including my hero) wear hats, and by extension unneeded articles, which replaced the credence. Just thoughts?

MistressSassy66 -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 6:39:59 PM)
I love Leather,the smell and the feel of it,makes Me want to wear it. Leather is an clothing item to be worn,I feel whenever you want to. On the collar topic... My 20 y/o niece is into the EMO look so to see her wearing a collar and handcuff earrings,it more her personality I see. Rather than her being owned.Which will never happen she is way to Dommish. I'm pretty sure her bf nickname of 'toby',and how she says come here and hes right there. On the other hand when I see people at a PRIDE event or something like and see people wearing collars I assume they are in the Lifestyle. The Kindred marches in Portland PRIDE parade witheir huge flag. Thats why I tend to assume that at the event a collar means something. When out just walking around or running errands and see someone wearing a collar before I assume they are owned,I watch their mannerisms.Especially if they are with another person. At times it can still be hard to tell.So I just assume they like wearing one. At a BDSM shop,I dont think their is any question what it means.Even some Porno shops are selling BDSM so again that would be a place I would assume the collar means something. A couple years a go,Punk(being the punk she is) saw a male wearing a collar,she asked him wear did you get that collar..he looks at the male behind him,obviously his owner and the owner said 'he's not allowed to speak" without permission...If W/we hadnt been in the Mickey D's I would slapped her right there,for approaching another submissive without asking his owners permission.I didnt realize what was going on at first,When W/we got to the car I explained in a rather upset tone...that you never ever do that.she really never even gave it thought,that the one collared was owned.All Dom/mes have their own way of doing things.So dont assume that because I allow you (punk)to speak freely other submissives can also.Now she asks the Dom/mes the questions.Shes a quick learner...LOL Of course the horse crop is quite the motivator

LadyPact -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 6:45:43 PM)
Sassy, I have a whole new appreciation of you.

MistressSassy66 -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 6:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Sassy, I have a whole new appreciation of you. Thank You Lady Pact,I appreciate that.[:D]

ShiftedJewel -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 7:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact This is not going to be a popular post. I understand that it doesn't appeal to everyone. If it isn't for you, feel quite free to move along. I just came from another thread, where the idea of "wearing" leathers was mentioned. Not presented or earned, but the purchase and "wearing" of leathers Like a fashion statenent. So, I would like to ask those of you who have earned their leather, is our time past.? Is it as easy as going out and purchasing a cap or a vest? I hope it is not so, but I could be mistaken. First, let me say that I wear leathers and yes, I've earned them. But secondary I wear leather because it's also a large part of the biker world. And yes LP, I feel like the time is passed and hopefully I'm wrong too. I'm a little older then you and have a lot of memories under my belt and that's most likely where they are going to stay. *Jewel*

blackrosegoddess -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 7:56:12 PM)
I earned my leather. Yet, I have no problem with others wearing it. Mostly because of the change in the way the lifestyle is presented. Fetish clothing seems to naturally be made of leather and plastics. Well, not all, but the stuff that is very pleasing to the eye.

slaveluci -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:16:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Now, when you see someone wearing a collar, what do you think? I think they obviously went shopping somewhere that sells collars. Lots of people wear them as fashion statements or an accessory, not as a sign of ownership. I actually assume it's one of those things unless something leads me to believe more. It's become a pretty common sight that I don't read too much into. Same with the leathers you speak of................luci

LadyPact -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:17:28 PM)
Isn't it funny, luci, that it turned out that way. My thanks to the goth community.

slaveluci -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:17:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *First, let me say that I wear leathers and yes, I've earned them.* May I respectfully ask how? I'm not being smart, ShiftedJewel. I'm honestly curious about how one earns them. Thank you..........luci

slaveluci -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:19:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Isn't it funny, luci, that it turned out that way. My thanks to the goth community. Exactly[:)]. I didn't say "goth" but that's what I was visualizing............luci

patwi -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:27:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *First, let me say that I wear leathers and yes, I've earned them.* May I respectfully ask how? I'm not being smart, ShiftedJewel. I'm honestly curious about how one earns them. Thank you..........luci I was wondering the same thing. Since I myself am new to "The Scene" (tm), have never and will never play in public, and am in an area with no active scene to speak of, what do I do? Since I can't earn leathers/collars, etc. does that mean I'm just less worthy? Am I less a submissive because of these things? This talk of having to earn things and learn traditions and have leathers seemingly ceremoniously handed over is more than a little intimidating and...I have to say it...off putting to noobs like myself. Especially those like me who are still coming to terms with things, only to be faced with the idea that we have to earn something, or prove ourselves worthy to wear a collar.

blackrosegoddess -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Isn't it funny, luci, that it turned out that way. My thanks to the goth community. As a Goth, I get a lot of the " there is no difference between the lifestyle of BDSM and that of a Goth" messages. Which is wrong. There is more to being gothic than the clothes. Personally I dont find the collars to be a symbol of anything, unless the collar has a tag. The tag means the person is owned. I dont like the spiked collars, yet I do like to wear a leather choker with a pendant on it. I also find it odd that people think that corsets are only for goths, and people in this lifestyle. I know a friend of mine, who is very very VERY vanilla and finds these ideas morally repulsive, who collects and wears corsets all the time.

LadyPact -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 8:33:42 PM)
Well, you're right on a couple of counts. For starters, there's a huge difference.While Goth's made certain fashion trends more acceptable, they didn't "invent" the idea of collars. They adapted them. That's what sub cultures do.

aidan -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 9:47:16 PM)
I'm trying to work out my thoughts on this as I type. Bear with me. Okay, so if I go around wearing the uniform of a police officer or the scrubs of a doctor, then people might assume without fault on their part that I am an officer or a doctor and it's kind of irresponsible of me to do so because I could cause a lot of confusion and unnecessary damage doing that. In that sense, I can see the argument against people wearing symbols of the Leather culture that are considered earned, like caps and vests and what-not. But taking the argument a step further, there can be very serious consequences out in the general world for me dressing up like a police officer when I in fact am no such thing. The consequences are significantly less severe for me dressing in Leather attire in a BDSM venue. So let's dial the analogy back a bit. I'm in a Best Buy dressed much like a Best Buy employee. If people mistake me for a Best Buy employee, that's hardly unreasonable. I chose to go into that store wearing those clothes knowing full well the similarity. When they come up and ask me for advice about HD televisions though, I can politely explain that I don't work there, these are just clothes that I enjoy. No harm, no foul. Lady Pact herself made a very important point I feel just before this post (if it gets out quickly enough); namely that cultures and sub-cultures adopt and reinvent symbols and icons. The Leather community, which I respect and actually admire in many ways though I choose not to participate, did not invent: chaps, vests, pants, boots, jackets, corsets, and most other items of clothing and accessories made from leather. They have simply adopted these things to be symbols in their sub-culture. I enjoy wearing leather recreationally. I find it appealing and a boost to my sexual confidence. My favorite item is a pair of leather shorts. While I am not going to pretend that having them confers on me an special knowledge, skills, or privledges, or acts as an indicator of such, I am also not going to stop wearing them because it is against somebody else's cultural values and does not adversely affect their being. For some, the cap is a symbol of learning and eldership. For others, it's a symbol of sexual virility. For even more, it's a way to keep the head dry and warm. Neither are wrong. They can easily co-exist without devaluing the other.

SurrenderForMe -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 9:47:47 PM)
Clothes do not make the man and actions speak louder than words. I don't subscribe to cliques. A uniform is only as good as the person wearing it. They are not attractive. And finally, you don't earn those caps and vests, they were/are an attempt to feel special and, in some cases, accepted. I feel special when someone I care about is happy to be with me. I feel special when I have the respect of the people who are in my life. I've won awards for things. I put them in a box. They are just things. Things have no value for me except in the moment of their usefullness. If you mourned the cap or vest because it kept you warm, I could relate. I have a motorcycle jacket. I bought it myself. I love that jacket. I don't have, or will ever have a motorcycle. I have had people ask me if I rode and some made disapproving comments when I said I didn't. This only happened two times. No major attacks, just quiet disapproval. I have the right to wear the clothes I choose to wear. I do not expect, nor accept, other peoples preception of my right to wear it. If that was the case, I'd join the fashion police and the scene would lose alot of really tacky clothing. What the hell is the point of spurs without a horse, except for fun or to express your personality. Pointy toed, cockroach killer shoes and boots, ick. Too short, too long, too ...... Plus, I have had old school shoved down my throat, off and on, for twenty plus years. It has only come up when someone wanted me to accept something and I disagreed. Then old school is pulled out like a trump card. It has no validity. What has validity is common sense, common courtesy, experience (which should be the trump card for old school), compassion, a willingness to share knowledge (another, which should be a trump card for old school and isn't). As a weapon, it's most common use in my experience, old school is clumsy and tired. It is used to attempt to win an argument when logic fails. It is like any clique, defensive and sometimes offensive. The closest it came to appealing was hearing stories about friends helping friends, and in the end, it didn't belong to old school, just old memories of companions. That is universal and there is no uniform.

Dari -> RE: I couldn't help Myself (7/16/2008 9:52:42 PM)
This is a really tough one, for me. I'm not Old Guard, and I never will be. I haven't earned my leathers, I don't even know what that means. My understanding of what is involved in that lifestyle is marginal at best, so any judgment call I could make about whether it makes sense or not is really based on hearsay and supposition. But you know - everyone has a different way, right? How many times to people on this board say: "There's no One, Twue Way." I've seen you say the same more than once, LP. So I can respect it - people have the commitment to stick with a community, and there's nothing wrong with that. But your way is not my way. I wear leather. It feels fantastic, it looks damn fine as it hugs my curves, and what feels better than a pair of leather boots, all laced up, hmm? I don't pretend to be Old Guard, and I wouldn't expect anyone to think I was. I personally think it's best to live and let live. Your way is not my way - and so I won't pretend to be something I'm not, and I would hope you won't sneer at me for not choosing your way. (That's a general "you", not you specifically, LP, since I've yet to see you be snotty to someone who doesn't live his/her life the way you choose to do.)

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