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ORIGINAL: camille65

Already there are pharmacists who refuse to fill those prescriptions, not caring if it is used to regulate a cycle or prevent a pregnancy. Yet their stores carry condoms.....

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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
This is more than a "bit"of gender bias.While I fully concede a woman's choice in this matter,somewhere a man is involved....saying they have no voice in this discussion is a little rediculous!

Should women have to seek permission to use birth control from any guy they fuck?

I have my reasons - whether they would be considered "reasonable" to others (especially males) is moot.  Ask my exhusfreak why I'm so dead set against allowing any male to have a say (other than being a sperm donor) in whether or not I have a child.
 
Do You go through pregnancy?  Do you swell, gain weight, spend almost a year at the mercy of out of control hormones, not be able to sleep or sit comfortably?  Go through the 24 hours of sheer hell that is called LABOR?  Don't think so, on any count. Not unless you're a TG woman to man who had children prior to deciding to be surgically altered. (I've got a local friend who is just that - got married and had a couple of kids because she wasn't "out" as a Les, then finally outted herself, got a divorce, moved in with her lover, and got partial surgery.  It hasn't been completed, and she's debating whether she can afford to do so, which is why I still refer to her as "she" rather than "he".)
 
Abortion is Not the same as preventing pregnancy in the first place, Panther.  Abortion, except in cases such as you mentioned (life of child, life of mother, rape, incest) - is Forgoing reproductive responcibility.  Preventing the pregnancy - whether it's by abstinance or contraception - is a case of Accepting reproductive responcibility, or at least making an honest attempt to do so.  Should people who do Not choose abstinance - for whatever reason - be punished by being forced to take a greater than necessary risk, or be forced perhaps to the option of aborting because they weren't allowed ANY preventative measure OTHER than abstinance?  Yes, the currently available methods are not 100% effective (both of my daughters were concieved while I was on the pill)  but that doesn't mean they should be made unavailable as an option.

Should people who KNOW they don't want children be forced into sexless unions because omg they use birth control to prevent something in advance? Something they know damn well they are not equipped (for whatever reason) to be parents?

I see that as beyond ridiculous.
Maybe a system can be set up, so that every person that has sex has to go through checks and balances, swearing that they won't use birth control yet also swearing they won't burden society with children they don't want?
Gee that would work out really well.

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ORIGINAL: uninterested5

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: uninterested5

I know abortion exists and happens and as an institution isn't going anywhere, but at the very least cut the bullshit and stop pretending it's some kind of inalienable "choice." A baby if just as dependent if not moreso after it's born. Why use the empty-headed, convoluted reasoning that it is your "right" as a woman to be a selfish whore and refuse to be answerable to nature, your higher morality, or the repercussions of your actions just because you think you can Johnnie Cochran some people on the internet into agreeing with you to spread the responsibility around? Please, by that rationale you could murder your kid at any point during like the next decade and a half for still being a "parasite."

Realistically, if you want to murder your kid before it's born because it's too inconvenient for you to raise and you want to play God and decide it's better off dead than being adopted or in foster care, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. If you murder the guy at Taco Bell because he took too long getting your food, I really don't care about that either. So murder your unborn child if you want, just never lose sight of the reason why: Because it was too inconvenient for you to endure a few months of pregnancy.

Those tools who respond and say "BUT NUITERSTED6 U IDOIT THAR R 2 MENY KIDS IN FAWSTER KARE!" If that's what you believe and how you think, try heading down to the orphanage or a shelter and explaining to all those children why their parents are insensitive for not having the foresight to preemptively decide they'd be better off dead.
 
I hope you think about it and relive it every night of your life.

Now the other ,equally rediculous ,viewpoint has been heard from....telling a woman who might have just made the most difficult decision in her life that she has committed murder is truly disgusting . Probably goes a long way torwards the first viewpoint that men have no place in the discussion...not helpful at all!

Eschewing higher morality to form a bullshit support network for someone who just did something abominable is probably the biggest inherent flaw of woman. Being "supportive" doesn't mean a fucking thing when the act in question cannot in any moral sense whatsoever be "supported."

I stand behind everything I said 100%, and I hope the words burn into your neural synapses so you have to think about them every minute of your life.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Your reasons are your own Peach,and I will not intrude on them...but despite all that men don't do,in the process of birth,they are participants in the creation of life if as you suggest they should have no say in the matter...would not the next logical thought be that they bear no responsibilty for the decision made..That would not do at all would it!!!!

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Your reasons are your own Peach,and I will not intrude on them...but despite all that men don't do,in the process of birth,they are participants in the creation of life if as you suggest they should have no say in the matter...would not the next logical thought be that they bear no responsibilty for the decision made..That would not do at all would it!!!!

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ORIGINAL: CalifChick
The argument presented is that some believe that hormonal contraception does not prevent an egg from being fertilized, but merely prevents it from implanting (test for pregnancy are positive AFTER implantation).  Therefore, no woman with an intact reproductive system can ever prove she is not pregnant at any moment in time.  Thats their contraception=abortion link.

Cali

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ORIGINAL: Aynne

I agree partly Mike. I love the man I am sexually active with, and if I were to become pregnant, just the fact that I love him gives him a say in the decision. I think that in the case of casual sexual relationships that may not be the case, but to completely remove men from this decision is wrong, especially two people in a loving relationship.  

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Your reasons are your own Peach,and I will not intrude on them...but despite all that men don't do,in the process of birth,they are participants in the creation of life if as you suggest they should have no say in the matter...would not the next logical thought be that they bear no responsibilty for the decision made..That would not do at all would it!!!!

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Camille,I was not suggesting that in the least.Hizgoergiapeach had put forth that men have no voice in the abortion discussion,to me that disregards completely a man's role in the process of creating life...Bottom line it is her body and her decision,but if men are to be responsible after birth,they should be in the discussion before birth....and a man who is responsible and an adult should be having a discussion with any prospective sexual partner regarding birth control,after all it takes two to make a pregnancy ,removing men from the conversation is one step away from absolving them of responsibility...and there are already far to many children unsupported and unloved by their father's

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thing is, mike, men do have a say... they can opine. A woman can listen to a man who's contributed to the conception. But ultimately, the decision is hers, and hers only: he cannot, after all, take her place and carry the pregnancy for her - and how many men would choose to do that anyway?

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ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Camille,I was not suggesting that in the least.Hizgoergiapeach had put forth that men have no voice in the abortion discussion,to me that disregards completely a man's role in the process of creating life...Bottom line it is her body and her decision,but if men are to be responsible after birth,they should be in the discussion before birth....and a man who is responsible and an adult should be having a discussion with any prospective sexual partner regarding birth control,after all it takes two to make a pregnancy ,removing men from the conversation is one step away from absolving them of responsibility...and there are already far to many children unsupported and unloved by their father's

I agree. I feel it is sexist to suggest otherwise. Or to say that men should have no opinion (in general) on abortion because they can not carry children.
So, I guess that translates to no one except women of child bearing age should have any opinion (in general) on abortion.
Since I am white, I should not have an opinion on civil rights?
Since I am female, I should have no opinion on whether men should be involuntarily drafted?
Where do we draw this line?

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ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

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ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Camille,I was not suggesting that in the least.Hizgoergiapeach had put forth that men have no voice in the abortion discussion,to me that disregards completely a man's role in the process of creating life...Bottom line it is her body and her decision,but if men are to be responsible after birth,they should be in the discussion before birth....and a man who is responsible and an adult should be having a discussion with any prospective sexual partner regarding birth control,after all it takes two to make a pregnancy ,removing men from the conversation is one step away from absolving them of responsibility...and there are already far to many children unsupported and unloved by their father's

I agree. I feel it is sexist to suggest otherwise. Or to say that men should have no opinion (in general) on abortion because they can not carry children.
So, I guess that translates to no one except women of child bearing age should have any opinion (in general) on abortion.
Since I am white, I should not have an opinion on civil rights?
Since I am female, I should have no opinion on whether men should be involuntarily drafted?
Where do we draw this line?

Its more so, this
Example: I get knocked up (god I hate saying that so.. Ill change it)
Example: Girl gets knocked up, Tells her boyfriend... shes 18.. no job, no visable income for a child, No parents to help...He should be able to say keep that baby?

I was brought into this world with out a mother or father to care for me, I got damned lucky my grandparents took me in. But I grew up my whole life wondering If there was something wrong with me because my mother didnt want me. And wondering If my father even knew I existed.

Should a man have the right to say I want to you to keep it? Yes he should, Should she because he points his finger no.
There is Nothing tying a man to his child these days, Nothing saying he has to do much because all he has to do is work under the table to advoid child support.

And Id rather have a girl say Im going to get an abortion because I cant care for a child, then to see a baby hungry and starving, and raised in horrible environment where the mother isnt around to raise the kid because she has to work all the time to support it...

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ORIGINAL: PanthersMom
abortion is not birth control.
PM

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ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

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ORIGINAL: CalifChick
The argument presented is that some believe that hormonal contraception does not prevent an egg from being fertilized, but merely prevents it from implanting (test for pregnancy are positive AFTER implantation).  Therefore, no woman with an intact reproductive system can ever prove she is not pregnant at any moment in time.  Thats their contraception=abortion link.

Cali

Our local planned parent hood wont give over birth control until they see if the person is pregnant, You want it? You pee on a sick and prove you arent. All of the clinics and doctors I  know of have the same method before prescribing  all birth control, so their point is just a scare tactic, I dont know about all birth control (pills and patches) but Planned parenthood, makes sure anyone on any type of period altering bc pees on a stick before they get it...