Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Take Me to Your Leader


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Take Me to Your Leader Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 4:53:50 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		 Recently there have been a couple of threads indicating a type of manipulation on the part of a sub-type; “testing” or some other exploit in the interest of weeding out less than desirable Dominants. I’m not going to go into that because I can’t really get my mind around it…
  On the other side of the kneel, I’ve read, and have heard in my own experience, the sentiment that Dominants have a concern that they are somehow viewed as “weak” or less than Dominant because of an expression or situation that seemed innocuous enough, but for whatever reason caused the Dominant to be less than sure of, well, the appearance minimally or validity in the extreme, of his or her dominance.   Is this cyclical? Is there a causal relationship?   May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
  While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
  Who is leading?

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 5:36:52 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline 		~~~~ff~~~~
 
You can please only one person totally, yourself.
Self esteem and self assuredness come from within.
Who really gives a flying ace what others think as long as the people who matter most are sincere, open and genuinely interested.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 6:02:41 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		In general "testing" others is about your own internal insecurity.  Having everyone "fail" your test means you are "better" than they are.    People "test" relationships because they need reassurance that their partner really does love them.

The healthy way is to say "I need X, we can compromise on how I get it but if you won't give me X, I will have to reevaluate the relationship"

(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 6:18:53 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Agreed- it's all about insecurity.  I refuse to engage.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 6:32:52 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Do I care if someone wants to play games and calls me weak because I won't play them? No.
My confidence comes from within me, not from any one person. I'm very comfortable with myself. I do think a sub should show some intelligence when they are talking to a new Dom. They should ask about things that could lead to a good life together. What are your beliefs? What do you think is important? What kind of life do you desire? What kind and where in your life, does the kinky side fit? How will you do the day to day life both vanilla and between the two of you? Can he satisfy her wants and needs, of all kinds? Can she satisfy his?

Can they form a bond? Will there be love?

Which of these are important will decide how well two people can do together. The silly little games .. well, I just don't have time for them.l

If someone wants a serious discussion about the future, I'm ready to talk. If someone wants to play manipulative games ... they can go find some cock rooster to play with.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 6:44:07 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Recently there have been a couple of threads indicating a type of manipulation on the part of a sub-type; “testing” or some other exploit in the interest of weeding out less than desirable Dominants. I’m not going to go into that because I can’t really get my mind around it…
  On the other side of the kneel, I’ve read, and have heard in my own experience, the sentiment that Dominants have a concern that they are somehow viewed as “weak” or less than Dominant because of an expression or situation that seemed innocuous enough, but for whatever reason caused the Dominant to be less than sure of, well, the appearance minimally or validity in the extreme, of his or her dominance.   Is this cyclical? Is there a causal relationship?   May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
  While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
  Who is leading?


I'm afraid you've lost me on this one, subtee.  I've read through your post several times now and I'm still not sure what you're talking about.  Mind giving some kind of example?

Are you asking if there is some kind of cycle involved where a dominant might feel insecure about his dominance in seemingly innocent situations? 

Are you asking if there is a casual relationship between submissives who test dominants and dominants who might occasionally feel insecure about their dominance?

As for why some submissives feel the need to test... I would assume it's because they have or have had reason to doubt whether they are interacting with someone who meets their definition of dominant, and they want to make sure.

As for whether this is a good way to start a relationship... I wouldn't think so, but if it works for them, more power to them.

As to why a dominant might be concerned about how his/her dominance is received... I would imagine that if the dominant is interacting with a prospective submissive and he/she does not accept the dominance, then it pretty much ends the whole "prospective" aspect of the relationship.

Who is leading? 

Well... I'd say that depends on who is following.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 6:44:25 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		If someone tests me, the relationship is over. I am not a trained poodle and I do not jump through hoops.
Manipultion is someone's way of maintaining a sembalance of control over a situation that they are otehrwise out of control with. Thats way too passive aggressive for my tastes. If you want to submit to me, and you want to see what I am capable of, it has to be in real life situatons. Not in situations contrived by you to see if I pass or fail.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 8:13:51 PM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Is this cyclical? Is there a causal relationship?   May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
I guess if you are having a business contract then testing someone out would be fine. I understand that we have dreams of what the perfect dom is, but if we want a real relationship then we need to come to a point were we accept the person with their good points and bad. I always see people who "test" out doms as someone who is either nieve, or she is so full of herself that she wouldn't be able to love the dom for who he is but more of what her fantacy is.

While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
Because they are human.



< Message edited by CrazyC -- 7/23/2008 8:18:20 PM >

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 8:35:29 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I refuse to play the manipulation game.  I am who I am, and that does not mean that I am perfect in every situation. 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 8:50:51 PM   
InsaenPleasures


Posts: 49
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline 		There is a great episode of Babylon 5 (Season 2, Ep 21 I think, Come the Inquisitor) which shows how someone who failed badly becomes a tester of other people. Some of the things Delenn mentions during the cours of her testing is spot on about my feelings regarding that attitude.

People do test one another all the time, but in subtle and most often acceptable ways. Blatant provocation is disrespectful regardless of role or type of relationship and as others mentioned, generally causes me to divorce myself from the situation.

Do I have insecurities? Of course, but anyone who takes responsibility seriously has them. I do not let them slow me down or hinder me, however as that would be counterproductive.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 10:22:09 PM   
SurrenderForMe


Posts: 229
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
Who is leading?


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by manipulation.  If it is subs testing dommes, then I've encountered it for my whole time in the scene.  That type of person doesn't seem to see the dominant as a person, but as a tool for their satisfaction, do me subs.  In that situation, they are people who want to top from the bottom.  My general response to that is " I am not a blow up domme".  I am not talking about the right that each person has to try to find out if someone is a match for them.

A dominant can have things go wrong in their life, be insecure, or have moments of uncertainty.  This goes back to not seeing the dominant as a person.  Everyone has weaknesses, but there are some who don't believe that a dominant is allowed any.  If the overall situation is that the dominant is indecisive, then maybe they are new or have mis-identified themself. 

I was just reading a thread on deciding where to eat and whether a dominant was considered weak if they didn't care.  I have encountered that because I fit that description sometimes.  Sometimes I just don't care.  If someone sees that as not dominant, they are not the right person for me. 



(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/23/2008 10:39:25 PM   
bashfulhuck


Posts: 119
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline 		This thread has given me some food for thought, thank you very much for that. I personally don't test Dominants to see if they are worthy of my submission, because I think it's just a tad adolescent.
I am however, very much an Alpha slave, and do study the people I interact with. If someone tells me they are a Dominant, that's all well and good, they just might not be the type that will make me want to bow my knee to them. And that's ok, we're all wired differently. However, I won't play games with them to see if they measure up to what I am looking for. Dominants are human beings first and foremost, and to play games with them would be dishonorable, and way beneath me. Just because I won't submit to just any Dominant does not mean that I shouldn't treat each one I run across with respect and dignity.



_____________________________

Peace and serenity,
bashfulhuck
Phadre's kajirus

(in reply to SurrenderForMe)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 2:46:30 AM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		Amen brother... i totally agree with you here. 
I don't want to play those kind of head games....and i certainly don't want or need to "prove" my submissiveness...why would i expect a Dominant to prove his? 


quote:

ORIGINAL: bashfulhuck

This thread has given me some food for thought, thank you very much for that. I personally don't test Dominants to see if they are worthy of my submission, because I think it's just a tad adolescent.
I am however, very much an Alpha slave, and do study the people I interact with. If someone tells me they are a Dominant, that's all well and good, they just might not be the type that will make me want to bow my knee to them. And that's ok, we're all wired differently. However, I won't play games with them to see if they measure up to what I am looking for. Dominants are human beings first and foremost, and to play games with them would be dishonorable, and way beneath me. Just because I won't submit to just any Dominant does not mean that I shouldn't treat each one I run across with respect and dignity.



_____________________________

We attract hearts by the qualities we display. We retain them by the qualities we possess.

Shoes can change your life................. Cinderella

(in reply to bashfulhuck)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 3:03:57 AM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Pfft.  In general, I don't give a flaming green testicle on a stick what others may think of my style of 'Being A Dom'.  Yeah, I can be a bit of a softie, I probably spoil the hell out of my pet, I most likely should be a lot more strict and stern.  BUT, he knows his place, and is unfaltering in his loyalty and never ceases to serve and please me and make me proud of him.  So yeah, if someone wants to look down on me for that, fine, have fun with that.  While they're looking down on me, I have my Dear One looking up to me, and I know beyond any doubt which one actually matters.

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to silkncarol)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 4:50:10 AM   
pixidustpet


Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Pfft.  In general, I don't give a flaming green testicle on a stick what others may think of my style of 'Being A Dom'.  Yeah, I can be a bit of a softie, I probably spoil the hell out of my pet, I most likely should be a lot more strict and stern.  BUT, he knows his place, and is unfaltering in his loyalty and never ceases to serve and please me and make me proud of him.  So yeah, if someone wants to look down on me for that, fine, have fun with that.  While they're looking down on me, I have my Dear One looking up to me, and I know beyond any doubt which one actually matters.


i dont think that's what was meant...i took the OP as meaning "testing dominants on a regular basis within their own D/s relationship".

your pet doesnt do that because he knows his place in your relationship, and what behavior to expect from you.  your relationship works, and whose opinion matters outside of yours and his? 

Daddy and TheEngineer both spoil me...they indulge my need for reassurance, they allow for my insecurities.  why?  because like your pet, i know my place, i am loyal and i love them both dearly.  and as long as they both love and wish to keep me, that's all that matters to me.

kitten

(in reply to BKSir)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 5:54:04 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I've seen what Subtee is referring to, in the posts on this message board.  People saying they test dominants by being rude.  Others saying to test the dominant's loyalty or fidelity by being sneaky.   I just shake my head and cringe at such things.  I'd never encourage anyone to play games or attempt to manipulate another in any fashion.  It is poor conduct, to say the least.  If you MUST play games with another, try Chess or Bullshit or Skipbo or something.

WinD

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 7/24/2008 6:11:18 AM >

(in reply to pixidustpet)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 6:02:41 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Insecurity is a part of life. This thing is are you going to let it stay a part of your life.

(in reply to pixidustpet)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 8:00:46 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

  While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
  Who is leading?


Honestly, I've been called a 'cold hard bitch' for it, but I really -don't- worry how things I do will be perceived by a submissive-type person. Either we're a good fit for one another or we're not... that includes me being completely -me-... including my interest in participating in intensity-rich experiences. (Just as an example, yesterday I participated as the 'victim' in a non-consentual 'drowning' scenario, courtesy of Sclitterbahn Water Park -- AMAZING experience -- life flashing before my eyes, and a GORGEOUS chocolate-brown hand reaching into the rapids to pull me out, attached to the most incredible eyes I've ever seen! Yes, I'd do it again in a heartbeat!)

On a purely academic level, I -am- curious how the 'other side' sees these things, if only because, even when I was on 'the other side', I don't think I saw things the way others who are more naturally flexible in that area did. I was a resistant, inflexible servant -- I had hard, strict, and rigidly enforced rules -- but as a creature of Chaos, that was the only way to manage me -- consistency. I get the feeling (though I've never been sure) that people who are naturally resiliant in the wake of dominance-applied pressure may see the world through a lens that I am intensely curious about, but may never understand. Because of this, I often ask my own servants (and listen with avaricious greed on the boards as other submissive-types talk) about their thoughts and feelings and about the things that impact their sense of yielding.

No matter how much information I gather, though, I don't think that it will change my basic nature. If bowing to the House and spending 4 years in abject slavery didn't do it, then I'm pretty sure I'll remain bossy, demanding, and with excruciatingly high expectations... and fondly attracted to sharp objects, the metallic-crisp-sweet smell of blood, and the thick sweet-char smell of branded human flesh.

Calla Firestorm


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 8:28:17 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		My thoughts on this subject.

It's human nature to manipulate our (as humans) environment around us.  Including other people at times.   Everybody has their own established ways of doing it.   Some people have Subterfuge down to an art form.

Everybody has a sense of self esteem, that they often check.  Nobody is 100% certain about anything, unless they are a true Narcissistic.

I think some people simply get off on the idea that there D/s has to be 100% perfect.  Meaning that it's impossible for the sub to ever manipulate the Dom/me, and that they Dom/me must be never have nor show any signs of weakness.

The fact remains, we are all human, we all have our share of flaws and faults.  D/s for many people has become over idealized at times in a fantasy mindset.   Reality slips from some people about the human aspects.



(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 7/24/2008 8:32:35 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		1. You get what you put up with..

2. If you see something you dislike, lose  the fear of calling bullshit on it.

3. Accept the risks inherent in option two.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/24/2008 8:33:02 AM >

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Take Me to Your Leader Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109