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RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/25/2008 9:38:50 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

And this, coming from an admirer of boy George Bush.

Last time I checked, Bush wasn't running for anything. By definition he has no place in this debate.

Except, of course, to provide Obama a smokescreen to avoid substantive discourse on how he will lead--or fail to lead, as is the more likely outcome.

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Post #: 61

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 2:45:48 AM

housesub4you

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? Bad Move, Senator Obama.

Well it seems McCain can't support the claims they are making about this, never mind the facts we are the GOP

opps forgot the link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902286.html?hpid=topnews

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 7/30/2008 2:46:44 AM >

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 62

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 5:15:49 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: SophiaCorrupted

True, McCain's supporters aren't known for assuming that Barack Obama is a Muslim because of his name, or that his wife is a radical because she is black, or that he was sworn in on The Qur'an. They're all so educated on the issues! It's very clear that people following the crowd only applies to the Democratic party!

Nice. But too subtle for these parts, Sophia.

quote:

McCain 1908!

Is more the level.

Thanks, Reality. I was wondering if anyone else would catch the sarcasm and satire.

I found it funny that the very people and position that she was agreeing with castigated her for her post. Says something. I'm just not going to point the "something" out in detail, 'cause it would be wasted anyway.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 63

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 5:42:32 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? Bad Move, Senator Obama.

Well it seems McCain can't support the claims they are making about this, never mind the facts we are the GOP

opps forgot the link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902286.html?hpid=topnews

Only if you use the Obamanaic definition of "evidence" (i.e., if it makes The One, look bad it's not evidence).

The fact is DoD protocol does not let political campaigns use military forces/installations for political events. The Pentagon takes a very dim view of military involvement in political activity at any level.

The fact is that when Obama was notified (translation: reminded) that no campaign staff could accompany him on a base visit, he said "never mind" (and how ironic it must be to have a "military advisor" on the payroll who doesn't know DoD policy).

The fact is that Obama could easily have left said advisor behind. The guidelines that Obama was given were as follows:

quote:

The guidelines were listed as:
1. You can land at Landstuhl and any/all media can cover your arrival and departure.
2. You will only be allowed at the Hospital with ONE SENATE staffer and appropriate security.
3. The only media allowed to follow into the hospital would be a military still photographer. The photographer would have potentially shot pictures of Obama with hospital staffers, members of the military and any patients that would want to participate.

The fact is that Obama blew off the troops because the DoD wouldn't let troops be used as a backdrop for his posturing and pretending to be President. Obama could make all the political hay he wanted to out of visiting Landstuhl--that is his right as an American citizen and a candidate for President--but the political theater rightly and properly was going to end at the tarmac.

The fact is Obama blew it.

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Post #: 64

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 6:49:00 AM

housesub4you

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McCain keeps saying he has "reports" about Obama not going in without the camera's only, yet the reports they priduced (3) make no such mention of what McCain is preaching.

All people are doing is asking McCain where is the evidence he keeps saying he has.

Read the report in the Post. Everything that supports McCain is opinion nothing more. Where are the facts he speaks of

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 65

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 6:52:14 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SophiaCorrupted

quote:

Highly doubtful because it won't make mainstream news. Obama supporters are cultists. It's one thing to have done your research on a candidate and support them. Its another to just follow the crowd blind.

True, McCain's supporters aren't known for assuming that Barack Obama is a Muslim because of his name,
None of the McCain supporters I know, assume he is muslim and they don't really care one way or another. Why is it an issue to you?

or that his wife is a radical because she is black,
None of them care about his wife

or that he was sworn in on The Qur'an.
Also not an issue.

They're all so educated on the issues!
First thing you have gotten right. Maybe you just don't know any McCain supporters in real life and are just spouting the usual bs. Oh well, if it keeps you happy, have at it.

It's very clear that people following the crowd only applies to the Democratic party!

McCain 2008!
Keep dreaming

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

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Post #: 66

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 6:52:31 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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"The fact is that Obama blew off the troops because the DoD wouldn't let troops be used as a backdrop for his posturing and pretending to be President."

That is your neo-con talking point and not a fact.lol

I read another right-wingy account, saying he went " sight-seeing",instead of the visit.Next, we`ll hear that Obama took a shit while smoking a cigarette and reading the paper,rather than visit our poor wounded pitiful GIs.....

~~~~~~~~~~
"As a matter of longstanding policy, DoD (Department of Defense) personnel acting in their official capacity may not engage in activities that associate DoD with any partisan political campaign or election candidate, cause or issue," the directive states.

Obama had hoped to meet with wounded soldiers at Landstuhl as he had in Baghdad, which he visited earlier in the week as part of a congressional delegation.

"We learned from the Pentagon last night that the visit would be viewed instead as a campaign event," said retired major general Scott Gration, an Obama adviser.

"Senator Obama did not want to have a trip to see our wounded warriors perceived as a campaign event when his visit was to show his appreciation for our troops and decided instead not to go," he said.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5isvibn267XWA1SF5OE9kK-nQIKkw

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/washington/politics-usa-obama-germany-troops.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

According to the DOD,Germany and Europe were not part of the Senate delegation`s official trip and that part of the trip, was classified by the DOD differently than the war zone part part of the trip.

Obama didn`t want the visit with troops to be politicized and opted out after talking with DOD folks.

Seems the McCan`tdoanythingbutcomplainers surely want to politicize this,though.

I have no doubt that the McCainites would have made the fake charge that Mr Obama was using the lunch visit as a political vehicle,had he gone,along w/ the fake outrage,etc.Dammed, either way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

BERLIN (AP) - Sen. Barack Obama scrapped plans to visit wounded members of the armed forces in Germany as part of his overseas trip, a decision his spokesman said was made because the Democratic presidential candidate thought it would be inappropriate on a campaign-funded journey.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D924E4KO0&show_article=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

McComplainy`s whining 'stratigery', is just making him look lame and silly.

Just a few weeks ago,Mr. Obama visited wounded/maimed troops at Walter Reed,without cameras or press coverage.No chance for the McCompainers to make hay out`a that one.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11411.html

Seem to me that it`s the neo-cons, who are "using" the troops for political gain,here.

The ugly irony is that it was the neo-cons who put those wounded soldiers there,personally.And now ,they`re going to complain?Jesus fucking Christ....

These guys want to run the country?!?!!!!OMG,that`s some scary shit.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/30/2008 6:58:45 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 67

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 6:54:36 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

McCain 2008!
Keep dreaming

I liked this part best

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Post #: 68

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 7:13:43 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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~HEADLINE~

CM News Service: It was recently learned from an un-impeachable,anonymous source,that Mr. Obama "sat down,ate food and drank some sort of liquidy substance",rather that visit our wounded veterans.

The shock and moral outrage by concerned upright citizens, has spawned a wave of whining and panty bunching,never before seen"

CM News Service "Where service has a smile"

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/30/2008 7:42:37 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 69

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 8:55:35 AM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

McCain keeps saying he has "reports" about Obama not going in without the camera's only, yet the reports they priduced (3) make no such mention of what McCain is preaching.

All people are doing is asking McCain where is the evidence he keeps saying he has.

Read the report in the Post. Everything that supports McCain is opinion nothing more. Where are the facts he speaks of

So what was the reason that Obama cancelled the visit? We know it wasn't his sore hip/knee, because he went to the gym, instead of the hospital (might I add the largest US hospital outside of the continental US) to get x-rays on the hip that had been bothering him since before the trip.

I would settle for one logical conclussion to why he CANCELLED a planned part of his trip. If it wasn't planned then there would be no issue here.

The damage control and PR teams can try to spin this however they wish. A sitting Senator and presidential nominee, with advisors, should know what is allowed or not.

I wonder how most of the Obama defenders missed a simple little comment from the Pentagon...

"In fact, we had made arrangements for his campaign plane to land at Ramstein, and to take care of the campaign staff and press in a passenger terminal there, while the senator and senate staff, if he liked, went on to visit wounded warriors. They made a decision based on their own calculations not to visit."

I don't know what it means to you, but when the military makes arrangments for a visit, it means that there was at least some coordination with whoever is visiting. Meaning that the Obama campaign, had to know exactly what the plans were when on the ground, ahead of time. This was a calculated decision. For whatever reasons, it was the Obama campaign that made it, and now he is trying to lay it at the feet of the men and women in the military.

Asking others to prove why he didn't follow through with the visit, is the same as me trying to prove why you post here, or why you don't post in a given topic.

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Post #: 70

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:03:10 AM

housesub4you

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"I know that, according to reports, that he wanted to bring media people and cameras and his campaign staffers," McCain said Monday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

The Obama campaign has denied that was the reason he called off the visit. In fact, there is no evidence that he planned to take anyone to the American hospital other than a military adviser, whose status as a campaign staff member sparked last-minute concern among Pentagon officials that the visit would be an improper political event.

Asked repeatedly for the "reports," Bounds provided three examples, none of which alleged that Obama had wanted to take members of the media to the hospital.

"We got notice that [Gration] would be treated as a campaign person, and it would therefore be perceived as political because he had endorsed my candidacy but he wasn't on the Senate staff," Obama said. "That triggered then a concern that maybe our visit was going to be perceived as political, and the last thing that I want to do is have injured soldiers and the staff at these wonderful institutions having to sort through whether this is political or not, or get caught in the crossfire between campaigns."
Obama's explanation

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Post #: 71

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:15:21 AM

Thadius

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Then why was he concerned, at least according to his campaign manager, that the visit would be seen as a campaign event? If he wasn't planning on taking cameras in, there would have been no issue. Just think, if he would have just went in, with or without his senate staffers, there would be no discussion on this. He planned the visit, he was there, he had time, he said no thanks.

I could care less what McCain is saying he understood from press reports... I am stating as a vet, that this is becoming a pattern for Obama. He refuses to agree to meeting with a bunch of vet groups for a town hall meeting, stating "scheduling" issues, so the groups offer to move the meeting to a time that is more schedule friendly, and he still refuses. It is quite clear to me, that if Obama cannot control the setting, he is not interested. It's just that simple. At least for me.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Post #: 72

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:29:12 AM

housesub4you

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"We got notice that [Gration] would be treated as a campaign person, and it would therefore be perceived as political because he had endorsed my candidacy but he wasn't on the Senate staff,"

The media has nothing to do with this, there is nothing that ever suggested the media would be going. Only in the eyes of those who oppose Obama, is this created to make something out of this.

No matter what would have took place people would be bitching. If he went the cry would be he is using the troops for his campaign, if he does not go he does not support the troops.

As stated earleir I guess his visits to vets without the cameras do not count.

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RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:36:10 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

No matter what would have took place people would be bitching. If he went the cry would be he is using the troops for his campaign, if he does not go he does not support the troops.

As stated earleir I guess his visits to vets without the cameras do not count.

See your last comment proves the point. Which position would you rather be in? Visiting the troops alone (or with staffers) and have your opponent try to make hay out of it, or the current situation? I can say that for me, I would be defending his visiting the wounded.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:37:09 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"The fact is that Obama blew off the troops because the DoD wouldn't let troops be used as a backdrop for his posturing and pretending to be President."

That is your neo-con talking point and not a fact.lol

It is a fact. Obama's own spinmeisters in their clumsy haste to cover up his fuck up confirm this.

Obama blew off wounded soldiers after being told (translation: reminded) that DoD policy is troops and military facilities are not part of political campaigns.

The fact that Obama's own military advisor was apparently ignorant of the policy is quite ironic and would be comical if Obama weren't arguing the supremacy of his judgement and trumpeting his capacity to serve as Commander-in-Chief.

The fact is Obama blew it when he blew off the troops. There is no spin that will alter that reality.

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RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:46:24 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The fact is Obama blew it when he blew off the troops. There is no spin that will alter that reality.

Aren't you just dying to say 'blew up' instead ?

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Post #: 76

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 9:54:28 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The fact is Obama blew it when he blew off the troops. There is no spin that will alter that reality.

*yawn*

Keep tilting at that windmill, Quixote.

~stef

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RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 10:37:02 AM

Owner59

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~Headline~

CM News Service:

Un-named sources from someone`s campaign, have told us that Sen McCain would rather have a cancerous lesion removed from his face,than do his job as a Senator.

Shocked and outraged citizens are demanding a full scale invasion,errr,...full scale investigation into this weighty matter.

CM News Service "Where service has a smile"

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 78

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 5:09:41 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is the order of things.

I know you're joking, but be careful you don't make too much of a parody of yourself .

Too late.

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Post #: 79

RE: A Workout Instead of Meeting U.S. Troops? - 7/30/2008 6:35:43 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The fact is Obama blew it when he blew off the troops.

Agreed, Celt. This is another stupid move that betrays how disconnected Barry is from the men he wants to command. Bad decision. Let's see if his learning curve is getting any faster...

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Post #: 80

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