Leonidas
Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
|
quote:
This sounds very much like a personal opinion of an outsider looking in without know what is going on. And then passing judgment.
Yep. It was my personal opinion. In the original post on this thread, I said how I reacted to it, and my perception of what was going on. My perception, given some context that I didn't include, was that the man calling the slave this meant what he was saying, and that she believed it about herself. Just my perception, and based on that perception, I posed some ethical questions. Nowhere did I say, you will notice, something along the lines of "this is just wrong". That would be a value judgment. I did, however, pose some questions about it. Lo and behold discussion ensued where various views were expressed. It's a.... um.... discussion board. It would get pretty boring around here if folks continually posted opinions that were the party line, and eveyone just nodded knowingly and congratulated them for having successfully learned to think like everyone else, yes?
quote:
Now the whole idea of consensual sex and BDSM is built on trust. Yes some slaves will have a lower self-esteem of self worth than others, that’s to be expected.
We'll have to agree to disagree about this. There is no reason to be found in the wide, wide world for a slave, necessarily, to have lower self-esteem. Pride in devoted service is still pride. Pride in being valued by one's master is still pride. Serving to the best of one's ability, even when that's not easy or convenient, still comes from self esteem. It is slave pride, perhaps, not to be confused with pride in self-determination, but pride nonetheless.
If it lowers a man or woman's self esteem and self-worth to be a slave, they should stop being a coward, get off their knees, and be free. A slave should be a slave because that is what they are and want to be, not because they settle for that out of a lack of self-esteem or self-worth. My personal, judgmental, opinion is that if you keep slaves like that you are doing them a grave disservice. You are, in effect, being an accomplice to them wasting their lives.
quote:
Those of us that are Masters have to be aware of our slaves, and all their aspects, their needs and the over all goals of the relationship, Now when there is trust built, then a slave can be called just about anything.
I'll have to take your word for it. I personally have always been way, way too busy to spend time working a slave up to the point where I can call them names.
quote:
Now We do not enter such relationships lightly or if we do we should not be playing with things like the egos of slaves.
Sorry, again, if I ever, in my adult life, had the time to play with someone's self-esteem as if it were an erector set, I would probably have found something that I would rather do anyway. As a slave owner, building self esteem in a slave is worth my time. It is a question of value. Playing with a slave's ego? My ethical questions about that aside, I have better toys.
quote:
Now to belittle a Freewoman who has lived the lifestyle, shows the same kind disregard that your talking about for the esteem of that of a slave. The use of the term “precious” seems to be equating a Dominant with that of a submissive. I just do not know where you get off calling Mine “precious” as if you had a right to it. You only think you know her, without really doing so. So is this just another snap judgment on your part!
In the first place, we are talking about someone who claims to be a Gorean free woman, right? If she, after what was it? 27 years? Isn't used to Gorean men not mincing words, and saying exactly what they think, and she is not ready willing and able to deal with harsh words, well, I just don't know what to say about that. Secondly, I was commenting about her behavior. I don't really have to know her at all to observe how she's behaving here. All I really know about her, other than the fact that I can't figure out what the fuck she's tryina say half the time, is that she started quoting the books to me to "prove" how Goreans do things. She may have "lived the lifestyle" but she'd be laughed out of the room if she pulled that crap among any group of serious Goreans that I've ever been around. As I said originally, that is patently role-play, online Gorean behavior. Was she offended? So was I, and I said so. I take exception to people making us look like a bunch of trekkies on a day pass in public.
I'm not going to get into a discussion about the nature of Gorean slavery here, though I have said some things about it in the context of other discussions. There are already complaints being voiced that there is too much Gorean talk going on here.
It was good of you to come here on the errand of defending your woman. Personally, if mine ever got into an argument, I let her sort it out her damn self. But that's just me. Diversity makes the world go 'round.
quote:
Now show us what your made of.
Gladly. I'll start by not rising to that smarmy little piece of bait.
Take care of yourself.
Leonidas
< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/29/2004 8:39:12 AM >
|
RE: Worthless - 
Profile
)
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread