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RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 11:08:30 AM

SimplyMichael

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I have almost always played first and created the relationship afterward but all of those relationships have been flawed in some ways as well.

I liken it to trying to review a restaurant without seeing the decor, experiencing the service, or tasting the food, all three need to be experienced in order to form an accurate picture. Even that can change over time as you get to know what food is the most tasty, as the wait staff gets to know you, or as you find the perfect bayside table with the most perfect view of the bay.

Not only that, it depends on what it is that is important to you, if you crave a highly experienced top who is skilled in all sorts of advanced play, you aren't going to be happy with someone who is still learning even if they are able to create a great relationship. However, if you crave a deeply structured D/s relation but all you do for a weekend is fuck like rabbits and have the best sex of your life, the long term relationship is going to be troubled if the D/s relationship lacks the depth and structure you crave.

In short, it is all an argument for TRYING things but keeping your heart in check while you allow things to mature/grow into a relationship. I tend to lead with my heart although at times I wonder if it isn't me filling an emotional black hole of insecurity and "needing" a relationship. Still working on that.

(in reply to CruelDesires)

Post #: 41

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 11:46:27 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
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Laughs,I'm pretty much AVOIDING any sort of intimate relationship for at least the next few years. My artistic endeavors are what really turn me on right now.

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Post #: 42

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 1:35:12 PM

silkncarol

Posts: 318
Status: offline

Establishing a relationship works best for me...but in this scenario.....IF i was there in the household a relationship of friendship would already have been established....i would appreciate being given the time to reach a certain comfort level...but absolutely i'd want to play at some point before i left...or even watch someone else being played so i would have an idea if we were compatible in that area......

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

it's all about establishing trust and knowing the person for me.

so it would be relationship first and play last.

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Post #: 43

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 1:51:27 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

If you were looking for a committed M/s relationship would you insist on play first?

If I am looking for a committed ANYTHING, I would want to see everything first. Otherwise you are committing to a fantasy of what you THINK you are getting rather than the reality of what it is.

Frankly, even going slow, one often finds that what you think you are getting isn't exactly what someone is or can give.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 44

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 2:17:53 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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I don't have a rule on this, but have usually opted for following the D's lead. How they handle this issue gives me alot of insight into their modus operandi. If they suggest something right out of the gate I wouldn't be able to do outside of a relationship, I know its not a good fit and quietly back away. I have very different approaches to play in the context of a committed relationship and play outside a committed relationship. Play before a commitment's been made wouldn't tell me much about play after a commitment.

For me, play tends to screw up my judgment. Its a mind altering activity, and that can be for better or worse. I've made a couple of really bad relationship decisions because I liked playing with the person. Basically, I let the good feelings that were produced through play attach to the person I was playing with which led to something along the lines of an addictive cycle where I required more and more play to keep the relationship alive. This sort of thing is not the stuff that a strong M/s dynamic can be based on. (Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt) So, for me, at least, it makes sense not to get into play right away until I decide whether other things are in place for a sustainable dynamic.

I'm pretty flexible in what kinds of play I actively enjoy, so there's no one thing I must have. I'm also really inconsistent in my tolerance for pain depending on my hormonal cycle and other factors, so even playing a few times, doesn't tell me a whole lot. Plus, I'm a submissive masochist, and can usually get something out of things I don't particularly like so long as it doesn't involve high levels of fear. Then there's the fact that I can self-flagellate with my key chain.

I dunno. There's so many variables and all those variables can combine themselves in a lot of interesting ways. That one issue doesn't seem like a problem to me.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 45

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 2:34:20 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
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We played first. Started right away literally within minutes of meeting in person. We talked online for about 3 weeks prior and there was so much excitement and anticipation built up that neither of us could have waited if we wanted to. That was over two and a half years ago and it continues to get better.

I really don't see how it should matter much one way of the other. If the play and the relationship are both important to you then any information is good information. For me I think it would be harder to find a great play partner than a life partner so I want to know that the play partner side is gonna jive as soon as I can.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 46

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 2:37:40 PM

sassysexygirl

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Not only that, it depends on what it is that is important to you, if you crave a highly experienced top who is skilled in all sorts of advanced play, you aren't going to be happy with someone who is still learning even if they are able to create a great relationship. However, if you crave a deeply structured D/s relation but all you do for a weekend is fuck like rabbits and have the best sex of your life, the long term relationship is going to be troubled if the D/s relationship lacks the depth and structure you crave.

In short, it is all an argument for TRYING things but keeping your heart in check while you allow things to mature/grow into a relationship. I tend to lead with my heart although at times I wonder if it isn't me filling an emotional black hole of insecurity and "needing" a relationship. Still working on that.

greetings Michael ~~

thank You for the above. that's where i am right now. and He's so new to the lifestyle i'm not sure what to do. the present is fun, awesome and hawt. the D/s and play is ........ well ........ not what i had hoped for. You wrote where i am and looking at it in black and white - i still don't know what to do. but i'm glad to see it. again, my thanks.

well wishes to You and Yours,
gemmie

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 47

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 3:01:12 PM

whiteslavebitch

Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

Up until three years ago, I had only ever had play partners. That's all I wanted or was ready for.

Then I met MasterK when I was on a trip to New York City. He was also supposed to be only a play partner. On July 29, 2005 my whole outlook changed, and I realized I wanted much more than a play partner.

So up until now, It's always been play first, relationship never. Well, I've done a complete 180 on that

.

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Post #: 48

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 3:26:30 PM

OTKkindaGirl

Posts: 447
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: NW Arkansas
Status: offline

usually somebody is already in my head by the time we meet. i do believe in communication and it being key to any type of relationship. i like to meet at least within a couple of months just to make sure that even the physical chemistry is there. there was one gentleman that would not send me a pic for a couple of months, i had mine posted in the profile. things seemed to be going good and he wanted to build a relationship first. when i finally did get to see him, i swear i was looking at my brother's twin... and i just couldn't move past that. apologies.

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Post #: 49

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 4:26:53 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
If you were looking for a committed M/s relationship would you insist on play first?

Why?

Or would you wait until you were further into the M/s dynamic/relationship before engaging in play/scenes?

Why?

I wouldn't "insist" but it would be something I just generally expected and would be very suspect if we did not do so beforehand. Same with sex, same with going to the movies, same with going out to dinner. These are all integral parts of my life and who I am and it would be necessary for me to experience a compatibility with that person on those levels and in those activities. If we weren't compatible in those areas, a relationship would not be fulfilling.

If they resisted, I would not insist, but it would signal to me that we weren't a good match.

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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 50

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 4:38:13 PM

somethndif

Posts: 136
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

This statement is from another thread; it got me to thinking on the question posed.

If you were looking for a committed M/s relationship would you insist on play first?

Why?

Or would you wait until you were further into the M/s dynamic/relationship before engaging in play/scenes?

Why?

The answer seems very obvious to me. Play and fuck first. I'm not into delayed gratification. With every submissive I've had a relationship with, or just played with, play and sex happen within the first couple of meetings, often the first meeting, but after some communication, whether by email, chat or phone.

And I don't know how you could even start to build a committed relationship, D&s or otherwise, without playing with and fucking your partner.

Dan

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 51

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 4:48:27 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

lay first.

I'd want to see if she could deal with things I do first

DITTO!

So, she can deal with your brand of play, but then you start a relationship only to discover you have zero in common outside of play.

What do you do the 90% of the time you are not engaged in a scene?

Not saying your way is wrong and mine is right. Just making the observation that for me the relationship comes first. There is so much more to M/s than play.

Play is something that i can compromise on.

Then again i've never been into casual play at all.

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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Post #: 52

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 5:00:59 PM

Twicehappy2x

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quote:

ORIGINAL: silkncarol

IF i was there in the household a relationship of friendship would already have been established....i would appreciate being given the time to reach a certain comfort level...but absolutely i'd want to play at some point before i left...or even watch someone else being played so i would have an idea if we were compatible in that area......

I see your point but the visit mentioned in the post that started this thread was a first visit. One to see if all our personalities meshed, if she was indeed attracted to Jewel as a prospective dominant. As well as to give the visitor a good look at how we live and relate to each other.

Jewel and her prospective partner were not ready to play with each other, that will come with time, though play was discussed. Both believe the relationship comes first.

So i was led to wonder why the girl's friends were urging her to rethink coming here or at least visit again to play before relocating here when they found out there was no play on the first visit.

And having the guest watch Scooter and i play would have showed her nothing about playing with Jewel, two different dominants, two entirely different styles of play.

And i have to mention, Scooter and i did not engage in any scenes until i was collared, though we did have sex prior to that.

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to silkncarol)

Post #: 53

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 5:18:14 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: somethndif

And I don't know how you could even start to build a committed relationship, D&s or otherwise, without playing with and fucking your partner.

Hmmmm......so i meet somebody, they are a very skilled top and a great fuck. Then i discover they hate bikers, Harleys, and expect me to convert to Christianity.

Whoops, that is not going to work!

Harleys have been a cornerstone of my life since i was a young un'. I am a biker and i was raised a Druid.

Not a great start for a committed M/s relationship. He is not going to suddenly change who he has been all his life and neither am i.

Now let's say i meet somebody, they love bikes, they are a biker, they are not religious in any fashion. But they cannot abide the thought of piercing play which i love. Otherwise we are a great match.

We can compromise on the piercing play, i can give it up or he can arrange for me to indulge in that type of play at a play party or with a friend who is trusted and skilled at it.

As i said at the beginning of the thread, for me the play is something that can be compromised on, opposite personalities or lifestyles are not.

I can see where a relationship that started out as just play could turn into something more over time. I can also see if you get together with somebody and you have zero play interests in common that the M/s part would not last either.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 7/31/2008 5:21:52 PM >

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The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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Post #: 54

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 5:28:48 PM

masterofdrkness2

Posts: 1697
Joined: 3/17/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

As i said at the beginning of the thread, for me the play is something that can be compromised on, opposite personalities or lifestyles are not.

I can see where a relationship that started out as just play could turn into something more over time. I can also see if you get together with somebody and you have zero play interests in common that the M/s part would not last either.

( nods head in agreement) what I was thinking exactly

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Heaven from Hell,
Blue skys from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
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Do you think you can tell?
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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 55

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 5:34:22 PM

metalmiss

Posts: 341
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From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline

When i was in search of something casual, sure play is what it was about.. Other than that, all i really needed was compatibility.
However, when i was looking for a long term M/s relationship play was the last thing on my mind.. Even though as a masochist it is one of my needs. Why? Because my primary interest is in establishing a working Dynamic. Once that is in place play is just the icing on the cake.

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(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 56

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 5:39:41 PM

LadyIce

Posts: 406
Joined: 7/4/2006
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Relationship first, play second, those are just
my priorities in life.
I feel it okay to play first and attempt to try to create a
relationship second, but when it doesn't work, I don't feel
sorry for those that took that route.

< Message edited by LadyIce -- 7/31/2008 5:40:32 PM >

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 57

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 6:06:52 PM

Daddystouch

Posts: 162
Joined: 10/20/2006
From: South East England
Status: offline

Relationship first. Play seond. To me, play is meaningless without the relationship. How can a girl possibly be submitting to ME if we have no relationship? She'd not be trying to please me because I'm me, because she loves me or values me so highly, merely because she is naturally that way.

Play first is for some people, and that's fine. Not for me though.

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Post #: 58

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 6:08:24 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

As i said at the beginning of the thread, for me the play is something that can be compromised on, opposite personalities or lifestyles are not.

Yeah, yeah. There's so many intangibles to be considered when deciding to join a household, the 'play question' seems rather minor in comparison. Values, ethics, sense of humor, regular eating habits and sleep schedules are really important to me. And then there's the question of 'everybody getting along' individually and as a group. If all that kind of stuff checks out with the proviso that I have to learn to accomodate a new style of play that I've never tried before, or give up some kind of play that I've grown accustomed to, its not really a big deal. I have relatively few hard limits and almost none that don't have more to do with the intangibles rather than a particular kind of play.

The way I see it is, the intangibles I mentioned above developed over a lifetime. At 42 years old, I doubt they can be substantively altered without much distress on my part. I've only been exploring SM play for about 6 years in one form or another, and took a two year break in that period from heavy play because I thought I was becoming addicted. I just don't have nearly as much invested in SM play, to the point where I can't compromise and bend on that as I have invested in the intangibles. In my experience, its been the intangibles that have made or broken my relationships, not the play.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 59

RE: Play first? Or relationship first? - 7/31/2008 6:22:39 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

As i said at the beginning of the thread, for me the play is something that can be compromised on, opposite personalities or lifestyles are not.

The way I see it is, the intangibles I mentioned above developed over a lifetime. At 42 years old, I doubt they can be substantively altered without much distress on my part.

I've only been exploring SM play for about 6 years in one form or another,
In my experience, its been the intangibles that have made or broken my relationships, not the play.

Lol, i feel the same way even though i spent 18+ years in a very committed relationship where the play was quite heavy at times. There is not a lot in the play realm i have not tried.

I want/need the M/s relationship, how or when or what type of play we engage in is relatively unimportant to me. For me it is the "who" not the "what".

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 60

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