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What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:27:27 PM

MissIsis

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Ok, I admit, I do occasionally read the parts of people profiles that come up on the home page of this site. Today, I came across one that told a story. I hope the person doesn't mind me copying & pasting a part of it. I actually enjoyed most of it. It was creative & told a little about the person.

Part of it read, "My father taught me to become a great warrior and the King of my people. We would conquer our enemies on their own land. On lands far away across treacherous seas. We would pillage and plunder. And take their women back to our land and make them our slaves. We would have our way with them on beds made of furs from wild animal hides next to our fires."

My question is this: I understand about being a great warrior. I don't quite understand how a warrior can be so great if he goes to other people's lands & conquers them, & steals their land, & steals or destroys someone elses property. Where is the honor in forcing women to become slaves, and in forcing them to have sex with their captors?

Isn't it much more honorable & worthy of the title of warrior, if he protects what is his, & the innocent? Isn't it much more honorable if he gets the woman to go to his bed willingly, rather than forcibly? Aren't these the traits of a warrior?

If not, what are the traits of a great warrior?

Thoughts anyone?

Post #: 1

RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:31:40 PM

StrongSpirit

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Neither his nor your qualities are those of a great warrior. War is about killing and surviving, not about taking slaves.

Talking about taking slaves as the sign of a great warrior is like trying to prove you are a great computer programmer by showing your pay check. While it might be true that a better programmer makes more money, that is a rather indirect measure. A 'real' programmer would prove his worth by showing samples of his code, not his paycheck.

Similarly, the warrior quote is poetic, but not logical.

(in reply to MissIsis)

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:35:04 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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the only great warrior that lived was in the WWF named the ultimate warrior who killed hogan in wrestlemania!

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:40:53 PM

Leatherist

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Choosing a battle you can win.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:45:57 PM

aggressiveblkdom

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From: The Dark Side of The Moon
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LMAO @ faery. I agree with StrongSpirit on his comment. The greatest warriors in history were survivors and killers, even those who later pondered that folly of such a life later. The quote that you posted sounds like something from bad fantasy novel. Your view of a warrior sounds more like the fantasy description of a knight, following a rigid code. In reality most knights were shown historically to be as morally corrupt and ruthless as the ones they were fighting against. Just the sad reality of warfare in general.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 9:49:35 PM

bipolarber

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"Great warrior... HA! Wars don't make one great..." -Yoda (who is actually quoting Lao Tse, in Empire Strikes Back)

I know that both those who follow the way of the samuai, and George S. Patton would disagree with me, but my opinion is that war is a huge tradgedy, a total failure of all of man's higher philosophy, and remains the evidence that we, in God's eyes, "are NOT all that." We idolize the brainless thugs we see on screen, and read about in the pages of cheap ass adventure fiction. We listen to that lower third of our brains, the part that was shared with our animal ancestors, that tells us to strike out blindly. And so we get pulled into destruction, again and again, and again...

I have infinitely more respect for the diplomat and statesman, than I ever have had for the "warrior" who attacks and kills to get what he wants.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 11:03:41 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

Ok, I admit, I do occasionally read the parts of people profiles that come up on the home page of this site. Today, I came across one that told a story. I hope the person doesn't mind me copying & pasting a part of it. I actually enjoyed most of it. It was creative & told a little about the person.

Part of it read, "My father taught me to become a great warrior and the King of my people. We would conquer our enemies on their own land. On lands far away across treacherous seas. We would pillage and plunder. And take their women back to our land and make them our slaves. We would have our way with them on beds made of furs from wild animal hides next to our fires."

My question is this: I understand about being a great warrior. I don't quite understand how a warrior can be so great if he goes to other people's lands & conquers them, & steals their land, & steals or destroys someone elses property. Where is the honor in forcing women to become slaves, and in forcing them to have sex with their captors?

Isn't it much more honorable & worthy of the title of warrior, if he protects what is his, & the innocent? Isn't it much more honorable if he gets the woman to go to his bed willingly, rather than forcibly? Aren't these the traits of a warrior?

If not, what are the traits of a great warrior?

Thoughts anyone?

That concept of 'warrior' comes from a period in civilization when tribal units such as clans were the prevalent building block of a society, and it pretty much meant that there were a bunch of people dead somewhere along the path...the successful warrior not being one of them.

In a time when kings might actually be leading the charge against the enemy face to face, it had a certain connotation.

As society and warfare evolved away from that time, warrior castes and warrior codes went away, and the concept of warrior greatness was supplanted by 'great generals' who were great at producing the requisite piles of dead bodies, just not face to face.

Now it seems to be often used in the sense of 'if I actually lived in such and such an era, or on such and such a planet, I'd show them what a great warrior I was'.

I wonder if the small handful of people today who actually make their only career and sole livelihood out of leaving behind dead opponents from numerous face to face encounters, actually talk like that.

(in reply to MissIsis)

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/2/2008 11:22:55 PM

hlen5

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A Great Warrior:

knows history, not just of battles, but why they were fought.
knows how to assimilate information, soas to make informed choices
knows how to judge people, who to rely on, who to trust/not trust
knows how to influence and inspire others to willingly take up arms
knows his enemy

and upon failure of diplomacy of varying leaders (including his own) - kills more of the enemy force than they can kill of his.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 12:32:38 AM

WarriorsGirl

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Well, given my username here, I feel compelled to post. By definition, a warrior is someone who engages in warfare, plain and simple, and typically shows courage in the battlefield. To go a step further, in my opinion, a great warrior shows empathy for his opponents.

Bipolarber, I am confident in saying that many of today's warriors, the ones that are out there fighting every day in battles that statesmen have ordered them into, would be the first ones to happily lay down their weapons in exchange for a world without the tragedy of war. Diplomacy would always be the first choice of any good warrior, in my opinion.

I think what being a great warrior comes down to is courage. Not only the courage to fight when called upon, but the courage to set aside one's own comforts to ensure the safety of others, the courage to admit fear, and the courage to face the inner turmoil that being in that place of responsibility for the lives of others can cause. I used to make the same blanket assessment of warfare as you. I have learned that it's just too complicated a matter to pass unilateral judgment.

Hlen5, I rather liked your post.

I know I went a little bit more into it than I should have. It's just obviously an important subject to me. That profile that included the story of the pillaging warrior bringing slaves back to their land is a fanciful notion based on how that person defines power and courage, not on the reality of what the word actually means.

Common misconception and trend can actually change the meanings of words and though that is part of the evolution of language, oh it drives me nuts. Vegetarians don't eat fish, "went missing" is grammatically impossible, and warriors are not essentially plundering thugs.

(in reply to MissIsis)

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 12:45:25 AM

hlen5

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Warrior'sGirl,

I knew even before I hit the enter button, someone would come along and make me (figuratively) slap my forehead and say, "How could I have possibly forgotten to include ______"!! Courage, of course!
In my defense, I was defining one who had already made the choice to be a warrior. Thanks for the assist!!

(in reply to WarriorsGirl)

Post #: 10

RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 1:06:45 AM

E2Sweet

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From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis
...what are the traits of a great warrior? ...

The ability to convince his enemies not to fight at all?

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 1:46:20 AM

ExSteelAgain

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Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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The morals of different periods in civilization and different cultures are not interchangeable. Applying what is right today to another time in history is treacherous. It could have very well been “right” for the ancient warrior to take slaves against their will.

Being a slave in those times may have had a different meaning than it does today. Slaves building the pyramids worked all their lives hauling rocks in the Egyptian heat, but they would have probably argued with you that they were living a good life. In their minds they were well fed and had an express ticket to the afterlife with the pharaoh.

The word warrior also has to be defined. There are warriors that most in the western world have an idea of what they do. A western world soldier today does not work from the premise of how many slaves he can capture.

On the other hand, there are warriors on the dark side who actually seek to enslave women and those of other religions. What they do may seem a barbaric anachronism that would fit your opening post premise, but in their society, dark as it may be, they may be noble warriors, too.

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 8/3/2008 1:47:55 AM >

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 3:33:45 AM

MissIsis

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Thanks for the comments to my post. It is interesting to see the different takes on what makes a warrior great. As much as I like to appear all strong & independent, there is just enough of a romantic in me to maybe hope for just a little of my romantic notion of a warrior might exist somewhere. I am sure there is enough sensibility in me to think that being a great warrior no longer means killing, & stealing.

It is very true that each time period and culture has their own definitions. And I truely wish we had reached a time in our civilization that no one thought it was ever necessary to kill anyone, but looking around, we aren't there, & still have a long way to go.

And lastly Faerytatoodgirl, I used to enjoy watching Wrestlemania with my son too, when he was younger, but mostly, it was just so I could drool over all their hard bodies. Plus, everyone knows it was "just pretend."

Thanks everyone!

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 4:40:05 AM

LATEXBABY64

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arr of war shang zu

:)

also study native american culture understanding that warriors in us all are a struggle for greatness the war with in

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 4:43:36 AM

rookey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Choosing a battle you can win.

Yep first seek victory, then seek battle. Sun Tzu.

This is what makes for a great general or strategist. I'm not sure if this applies to warriors though.

What makes for a great warrior, or great athlete, or great anyting, is self-possession. The ability to overcome yourself, your fears, your hates, etc. Perhaps the hardest battle of all. Remember Kipling's poem If.

So even if you don't agree that warriors are useful, the ethos is.

< Message edited by rookey -- 8/3/2008 4:51:13 AM >

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 5:13:27 AM

LaTigresse

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MissIsis, personally, I think the person who's profile you copied that from has their head stuck so far up their ass they forgot what sunshine looks like.

As far as what I think makes a great warrior I can only describe several I know.

A great warrior hates war. Yet will lead (or follow as his/her rank dictates) will utmost preparedness, honour and respect. Honour and respect for both himself, fellow warriors, and the enemy. He/she serves, both his fellow warriors but also those he promised to defend.........even if they are weak.......even if they do not agree with the cause.

A great warrior returns home with hopes of never having to see battle again. While honouring all those that didn't return home, both his/her fellow warriors but also the enemies.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 5:25:22 AM

TysGalilah

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Its fun to read about those kind of warriors who piliage and plunder and then come home and take me...errr I mean the girl....... the same way. but life and reality is different than a good "brain candy book"..
mmmmmmm love those kind of books.

In life I guess I prefer a peaceful warrior.
a warrior in bed ( or whatever room or place he wants)
but inspires through spirit not sword or gun.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 6:35:00 AM

Rafters

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis
My question is this: I understand about being a great warrior. I don't quite understand how a warrior can be so great if he goes to other people's lands & conquers them, & steals their land, & steals or destroys someone elses property. Where is the honor in forcing women to become slaves, and in forcing them to have sex with their captors?

The profile you mention is a profile, written by a "Mills & Boon" Dom, who is taking the mantle of a Warrior, in much the same way movie porn star's pretend to be doctors or pizza delivery men.

It's a cute fiction if you're targeting harmless little housewives for some Conan /Scorpion King movie role play.

However if your the kind of person who's heard of Amnesty International, then you might consider a CM profile mixing Warfare and Rape to be in bad taste.

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." Abraham Lincoln

Rather than waste energy on a profile, be constructive and chuck a dollar or two Amnesty's way. Balance the consensual stuff you choose to do, by limiting it's non consensual applications in the world.

http://www.exile.ru/print.php?ARTICLE_ID=7799&IBLOCK_ID=35
"Zainabo Alfani:was stopped by men in uniform on a road in Ituri [in NE Congo] last year. She and 13 other women were ordered to strip, to see if they had long vaginal lips, which the gunmen believed would have magical properties. The 13 others did not, and were killed on the spot. Zainabo did. The gunmen cut them off and then gang-raped her. Then they cooked and ate her two daughters in front of her. They also ate chunks of Zainabo's flesh. She escaped, but had contracted HIV. She told her story to the UN in February, and died in March."

Warriors are impersonated by winners.
Honour is judged by the living.
And it is no coincidence that the highest courts for honour, whether Congress or Royalty, possess a ceremonial weapon passed down from the age when they were used to unceremoniously remove any dissenters from the realm of the living.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_mace

< Message edited by Rafters -- 8/3/2008 6:37:27 AM >

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 7:08:39 AM

SummerWind

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Don't confuse the warrior with the President, King, Prince etc who starts the battle....

To me the warrior is the one on the field of battle

The ruler is usually some combination of a self centered, greedy, egotistical jerk off who attemots to improve their place in life by using warriors to accomplish their means......

Not too many examples in history of those who were both King and warrior successfuly over the long term.

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RE: What makes a great warrior? - 8/3/2008 7:13:50 AM

Lashra

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Balance, speed, ability to think fast on your feet, strategy. These are the makings of a warrior, what makes one "great" is subject to individual perspective.

Unconsensual slavery never makes one a "great" warrior, is just means that for now your the free one until someone better comes along to throw steel around your "great warrior" neck. Unconsensual slavery is for the weak because they cannot inspire someone to follow them without using their fists or death threats. This is My personal opinion of course.

~Lashra

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Post #: 20

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