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MadRabbit -> RE: ok, then what IS submissive? (8/5/2008 4:40:34 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
quote:
ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I don't find unenjoyable or enjoyable acts to be more or less submissive than the other. Both are forms of expression only. But if my will being carried out is based solely on the contigency of it being something they "want" to do, then, in my opinion, what is being expressed isn't submission.
You really only want your property to do shit that she doesn't like, to prove submission, to make your dominance feel worthwhile?
Maybe I am fortunate. I do not have to prove my submission by doing only things I loathe for Darcy. I simply submit to his will.
Nope, not at all. Those are words you put in my mouth and bare no resemblance to anything I said in the above quote.
Simply put, we can define submission as "obeying one's will", but I find it highly unrealistic to think that I am never going to have to give a command that falls into the category of being unenjoyable or defined as something they don't want to do.
When faced with such a dilemma, what I should do? Alter my will and reform it as such that it is something "enjoyable" or something they "want" to do? I don't find any enjoyment in that kind of "dominance".
Pragmatically and realistically, at times, I will have to alter my will. The well being of my partner means a lot to me and there is going to be things that are hard for them, they are afraid of, uncomfortable with, or just flat out incapable of doing for a variety of different reasons. Some things are too important or too great that I can't change without severe consequences and that's something I will have to either mold to or break the deal over. That's just the reality of being a good leader and making good decisions.
But still, given that self gratification is part of my nature and that I have expectations that will be met, there will be plenty of times when they are going to have to do something for me they might not "enjoy" or "want" to do.
As such, I consider a willingness to do things that one does not want to do to fulfill the will of their partner to be essential to "submission". Maybe not in a perfectly logical sense, but certainly in a pragmatic one. Is it possible that I will find a partner who is perfectly compatible to me in every way? Sure, it's possible, but I am not holding out. And even if I were, given the fact that we are both constantly changing entities in flux, I doubt we could stay 100% compatible forever.
It has nothing to do with "making them do things they don't like to prove themselves to me." That "intention" and "motivation" has to be there to be willing to put my "will" over theirs. I've met quite a few girls who made it clear in the beginning that they were willing to follow my rule as long as it didn't inconvenience them, discomfort them, or pain them in anyway. I wish them luck in finding someone who enjoys that kind of submission, but it's not for me!
Maybe your one of those people who thinks that a submissive should never ever have to annoy, inconvenience, discomfort, or pain themselves for the will of their Owner. If that's the case, I welcome you to your definition, but it's not mine. I won't mock yours if you don't mock mine, cool?
With all that said, I do happen to enjoy making my girl endue suffering and hardship solely for my will. It has nothing to do with "proving", but rather I find the experience to be a very powerful expression and find it very poignant when someone is willing to endure something to please me. Of course, there is always that possibility I might meet a girl who finds nothing I do to her painful or hard and that would be quite a bummer. I would be robbed of an enjoyable sadistic kink, but as long as the intention is there, I could be happy.
Of course, just because I find value in that kind of expression doesn't mean I can't appreciate and enjoy them simply buying me an ice cream cone.[:D]
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