Racist or not?

Racist or not? (Full Version)

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hazelmae -> Racist or not? (8/11/2008 10:42:32 AM)
So I know this is a sensitive topic for some people but I figured this is a good place to get honest opinions. I have a friend whom I have been going around and around with over this issue. He has a tendency to say things that come out as racist statements, but then when I tell him that I don't appreciate him saying things like that...he gets all up in arms and says things like "how dare you accuse me of being racist!" He says racism is nothing but hate, and since he doesn't hate people of any other color, he is clearly not racist. It's just funny. Our most recent discussion on this topic was the other night. A commercial for that show Bridezillas came on and in the preview there was a black woman who was the bride and she was wearing a green dress. It was an awful color on her simply because it was an ugly dress period and when I said out loud that it was an awful color he piped up and said "yeah...it looks like a reeses got lost in a key lime pie." I personally thought that was pretty tacky and unnecessary, even though it is one of his very mild remarks. So here is the deal. I'm not posting this and asking for opinions to prove my point...on the contrary. I want to know if I am being too overly sensitive, because if I am I need to work harder on overlooking stuff like that. It's not like we got in a huge fight or anything about it...I just think it was an ugly thing to say and borders on a pretty racist statement, but he says it has nothing to do with racism whatsoever...it's simply humor...and his evening was just about ruined because he was "accused of being a racist." Am I wrong in asking him to curb comments like that around me and instead say them around people who would think they are funny?

subtee -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 10:49:35 AM)
I'm not bothered because it's racist...I'm bothered because it's not funny. A "reese's"...does that mean the peanut butter cup or the pieces? Key Lime Pie isn't typically green at all...I don't get it.

philosophy -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 10:56:42 AM)
....famously Paul Gascoigne, an ex english footballer and now freelance drunk, once referred to (i think it was) Viv Anderson after he'd had his head bandaged during an international match as looking like a pint of guiness. There was no intent to hurt Viv Anderson, indeed he found it funny. Noticing and making a joke about an aspect of race is not always racist. I'ts about avoiding the assumptions. It's an assumption to say all Mexicans are lazy, no assumption is needed to know that a black man with a white bandage on the top of his head does look a bit like a pint of guiness.

hazelmae -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 10:57:10 AM)
lol I will agree with you there subtee...racist or not it still wasn't funny. He meant the peanut butter cups... he was referring to the black and green combination.

AquaticSub -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:05:05 AM)
Would you feel the same way if he compared a white girl in something too tight to a marshmellow wrapped up tight in ribbon? The statement may or may not be tacky but sometimes people look horrible. Sometimes the garment is just awful and something their skin doesn't work with that particular color. I don't think it helps to have everyone on edge about what they can say because they are scared it will be taken the wrong way. I was once joking around with a friend who happens to be black and made a joke about BDSM slavery. It took me a minute to get why he was looking so funny and then we both started laughing. If you took it out of context of BDSM, it would probably make me sound racist but it simply came out wrong. I'm glad that I could make my oopsie because I was so comfortable that I wasn't watching every word that came out of my mouth.

MissSCD -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:05:27 AM)
*No matter how hard you try, you are always going to have someone out there who does not understand what the world was like in the 1960s.* *If he bothers you, get the heck away because he want change. Best thing to do is make you happy, and I don't think he will.* *Regards, MissSCD*

Owner59 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:14:29 AM)
Low class would be a better description,till I got to know more about him. I had a driver chatting me up one night, coming home from Newark airport. We took a shortcut and was driving through a black working class neighborhood when he said,"ahh,brown-town".I look over to him and looks at me for a moment and points outside and says,"we`re in brown-town,ha ha".I didn`t say anything and looked away.The word came out a few more times,along with some other plumbs. I doubt the driver was a racist,maybe bigoted.Technically,racism can only be practiced by someone with power over another.Anyone can be a bigot,though and say stupid things. I don`t think you`re wrong for bring it up,here or with your friend.It`s kinda brave,really.The PC crowd shies away from the conversation or makes fun of it. ~~~~~~~~~~ On your friend,..go with your gut feelings.They, are your most loyal friend.

Owner59 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:18:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ....famously Paul Gascoigne, an ex english footballer and now freelance drunk, once referred to (i think it was) Viv Anderson after he'd had his head bandaged during an international match as looking like a pint of guiness. There was no intent to hurt Viv Anderson, indeed he found it funny. Noticing and making a joke about an aspect of race is not always racist. I'ts about avoiding the assumptions. It's an assumption to say all Mexicans are lazy, no assumption is needed to know that a black man with a white bandage on the top of his head does look a bit like a pint of guiness. A woman once called me "a tall glass of water".[:)] I took no offence. Should I have?[:D]

subtee -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:22:05 AM)
Absolutely you should be offended...unless she was saying she wanted to tap you...

Archer -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:32:10 AM)
Actually racism is the belief that one race is superiour to another, so maybe the comment had some bigotry at most but I don't see it as anything other than just tacky. Ignoring pigment is not required to be free from racism or bigotry. As mentioned earlier would saying she looked like a marshmellow lost in a keylime pie make it racist? No a recognition of a person's pigment is not the same as racism. To reach the level of bitry would require that the joke disparage her because of the pigment, recognizing that one's skin tone clashes with certain clothing colors doesn't reach that level. Hell fashion consultants make money telling folks what colors clash with their skin/hair color. Are you a fall or a winter skin tone?............If this incident reached racism then the folks who do the worst of fashion in magazines are by far more guilty of using tacky metaphores and should be at the top of the list of racists.. Now certainly context of other comments might color your vision of this incident, you have more information about the guy than we do.

hazelmae -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:46:02 AM)
I guess racism is the wrong word...thank you all for pointing that out. I did call him a racist when he said that black people looked like gorillas...and I guess I just haven't changed that idea since then.

Owner59 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:47:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee Absolutely you should be offended...unless she was saying she wanted to tap you... <winks at the cute girl>

Mercnbeth -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:50:04 AM)
quote: A commercial for that show Bridezillas came on and in the preview there was a black woman who was the bride and she was wearing a green dress. It was an awful color on her simply because it was an ugly dress period and when I said out loud that it was an awful color he piped up and said "yeah...it looks like a reeses got lost in a key lime pie." An argument could be made that it would be more racist to think the thought than to express it out loud. By my definition, racism is expressed by decisions and results concerning people purely upon racial, age, or gender without dialog or qualitative opinion expressed. You can't do anything to address those racist practices, such as EEO/AA. However, a comment made in open company can open dialog which would lead to the end of race being considered an asset or liability. When thoughts are repressed they fester and become a bigger problem. For example when this occurred and you; "*I personally thought that was pretty tacky and unnecessary*..." What was the ensuing discussion? Did you have a discussion at all? You had an opportunity to answer the question definitively when it came to this person. Did you use it? There is also a consideration to the other person's general personality. Are his words in this case and the others you reference, an indication of racist beliefs or a misguided attempt at humor? It's a simple question to ask but easier to determine by actions versus any words he could give in answer. What is your experience in this area? After being in mixed a mixed company of friends, does he make comments, or 'jokes' behind the backs of the people those comments are directed? Keep in mind that many racists use racial stereotypes to make up for their personal weakness and lack of confidence.

Maxwell67 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:08:14 PM)
A relative of mine was verbally attacked in a department store by a woman in line next to her while trying to return something that came out of the box busted. Because the item was on clearance, they would not let her return the item and she said "What a gyp." meaning of course, that she thought she had been ripped off. The woman next to her called her a racist because the phrase was originally a racial slur against gypsies. It has long since passed into the vernacular and is not typically recognised as having any racist connotation, since most people don't even know the etymology of the phrase. I fail to see how anything can be racist without prejudice or the intent to discriminate behind it. I respect the right those who have suffered discrimination to take offense at overt reminders of that, but I am also of the opinion that I need not join that fight. It is their problem, not mine. I am half-German, but I have never bristled when someone doing an improvised mechanical fix calls it a "Gerry-rig." I just don't have the time nor the inclination to get angry about ridiculous crap like that.

AquaticSub -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:10:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hazelmae I guess racism is the wrong word...thank you all for pointing that out. I did call him a racist when he said that black people looked like gorillas...and I guess I just haven't changed that idea since then. See that I would regard as racist and offensive.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:15:26 PM)
To me really it's all about intent, if you make a comment and you ment to be mean against someone because you think less of that race or gender because they're that race or gender yes it's racist. But if it's just an off handed comment like his was then no it's not racist. Like someone saying you live like a nigger, because they think black people are stinky dirty ignorant people who live in filth, THAT is clearly racist and sterotypical to boot.

Termyn8or -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:16:08 PM)
It is up to you hazel, to decide, but I will say this. Racism is a part of life, we all would like to be around "our own kind". It's how you treat the other "kind" that matters. But some people seem to bend over backwards to not be, or at least not to appear to be racist. And then someone interferes with their facade. If you think you might be oversensitive, only you can decide, because you set the standards for those you decide to call friends or whatever. I don't think an occasional remark like that is enough to write someone off. I don't think Don Imus should have been ousted for the "nappy haired ho" remark, if I were the producer I would say "Guess who your guests will be tomorrow". Let them have at him. Now that would have been interesting. What some people call insults, on this very forum, I call minor barbs. I have something called skin, and some people need to grow one. I'll tell you how bad it's getting, my buddy Baldylocks. In a discussion it came up, and he said "I'm ashamed to say I am German". I mean because of Hitler and the war and all that. That is ridiculous. So your ancestors are from a country that waged war and they got nasty. Big deal, that little country almost took over most of Europe. To me that would be something to be proud of. But see I don't do that. My pride comes from what I have done, not my ancestors. And so does my shame. But to embrace the culture of one's ancestors is almost called racism these days. The pendulum has swung, and now we have to pay for all the things they did in the south. Like the seperate water fountains and the back of the bus thing. And we pay with our freedom of speech, can't joke about this, can't joke about that. I am serious, in the forum I can't even quote Chris Rock, who happens to be a Black Man. And it doesn't look like that is going to change soon. I am surprised I even jumped into this thread, but I do want to say this much. If you are the type to question and sometimes reevaluate your position on certain topics, I consider that a sign of intelligence. My answers might not be worth a lick, but at least you asked the question. T

Archer -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:29:31 PM)
Now the gorilla comment would be racist since it places one race closer to gorillas than another. When we all (since we are primates) look a little like gorillas, to pklace one closer in evolutionary order to the gorilla would be to make them less than others.

Owner59 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:30:25 PM)
It was the use of the word "jigga-boo",that got the Imus show canceled.His producer is an asshole and should be bitch-slapped for saying it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui1jPNDWArM

pahunkboy -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 12:31:14 PM)
A longtime frined of mine, Jenny - would gab- early on, her speech was bar-room profanity. In the right time and place,I asked her to refraim from that type of language. Most offense was "god damn".... ya gotta figure we talked for maybe an hour every day- so it did reach a point where I had to tell her that Ild prefer other language. She asked what my reasons were and if I go to church.... my dad had told me that an educated person does not need to use profamity to exoress themself. So once she knew how I was about that she toned it down. At first there were slips- but then these days there isnt. I am glad I told her. As I say- time and place. Now on her end- she did not know any differently. To her I was male from a big city- and that it was no big deal. Anyhow- getting that out of the way helped our friendship. :-)

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