RE: Fake Irish (Full Version)

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candystripper -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:29:27 PM)

Well, for starters, I am bit fascinated with the reported *outbreak* of people around the Op *falsely* claiming to be Catholic.  Being about as Catholic as it is possible to be, from an upbringing and ancestry POV, I'm unaware any advantage attachs to one's status as a Catholic (I assume the Op is referring to Roman Catholic...there is some advantage to being Orthodox Catholic up here in Cleveland...but I digress).
 
For anyone seething with frustration at their status as a non-Catholic (BIG question mark here) you should know that after about 8 weeks of annoying religious instruction and a few rituals, you too can be just as *Catholic* as your heart desires.
 
I question the Op on why an Irish Protestant is any less a *real* Irishman than an Irish Catholic? (Or Buddist, or Taoist...etc.)
 
As for why people claim to be Irish...well...like many better-known western European countries, Ireland has a reputation as a beautiful land with many highly creative people and a rich history, some of it tragic.  Being Scottish, I have always envyed the Irish...it's tough to get too excited about inventing plaid.  If I were gonna lie about it though I'd probably choose Italy....just cannot beat that Renaisance.
 
St. Patrick's Day Parades are a hoot.  So is the Festival in Little Italy.  So, some people who are xth-gen Irish or Italian or (insert choice here) enjoy connecting with that aspect of their pasts and with others of a similar background. 
 
Where is the harm?
 
candystripper 



popeye1250 -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:29:57 PM)

As for red hair that is a Scandinavian trait.
Dublin ("Black pool.") was actually founded by the Vikings who intermarried with the Irish.
There are a lot of red heads in Russia as well due to the Vikings going down the rivers in Russia as only their boats could and establishing trading posts there which naturally became towns then cities.
And 40% of people in Iceland have Celtic DNA, seems the Vikings loved the Irish women!



Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:30:23 PM)

Catholicism was not the first religion introduced to ireland... So what of people who still follow the old paths?  Or what of people who claim no form of religion?  Does that make them not Irish?  Thats retarded.  A person does not have to be born of a specific religion to be of a specific blood line.  I think you just want to be right no matter what.  Like that whole "Im not always right but Im never wrong" kinda deal... Sad. 



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:30:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I knew this post would piss off people.  Too bad, live with it.  If you weren't born Catholic, you probably aren't Irish.  Sorry, but that's the truth. 


Wow... I usually agree with a lot of what you write but thousands of Catholic Irish, dropped, Mc's O's and Fitz's and gave up the Faith to fit into WASP America. 



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:33:45 PM)

quote:

Slaveboy, they probably do that because the Irish are the fucking coolest people on earth.
My last name is Scots-Irish too on my paternal grandfather's side and his ancesters probably went to Ireland from Scotland during or after the Jacovite wars.
Only they stayed in Ireland until the early 1900's.
And they must have converted to Catholisim in Ireland probably from Presbitarians in Scotland.
My grandmother's clans were "Dohertys", "McLaughlins" and "Laffertys", very common names up on the Inishowen Peninsula of Donegal.
My mother's people came from Sligo and were "Mc Donoughs" and "Faheys" prounounced "Fa-Hay", in Irish.
Not all the "Scots-Irish" left Ireland, many intermarried and are still there today.
About as far as you can go back in that part of Ireland is maybe 200 years. (if you're lucky.)
When I was over in Donegal doing geneology research an Irish Preist a Fr. Mc Goldrick told me that many churches burned over the years and took the records with them.
Also, many were very poor and couldn't afford a headstone for loved ones so they'd just put a big rock on the grave.
So, if your friends and neighbors have Irish names they are, to a certain extent "Irish."
The Scots and the Irish are "cousins" anyway!
On a good clear day you can see Scotland from Malin Head.
The Scots and the Irish have been intermingling in marriage, commerce and music for a thousand years.
All Scottish Kings before 1789 were Irish.


Popeye, you know what I'm talking about.  If my ancestors and your ancestors met each other, we'd be fighting.  I am an American, but I do not deny any other ethnic group that title.  I just want people to really read up on history.  I don't like this false victimization that is occurring in America.  I see it all the time, and I'm tired of it. 



Alumbrado -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:34:31 PM)

quote:

Wow... I usually agree with a lot of what you write but thousands of Catholic Irish, dropped, Mc's O's and Fitz's and gave up the Faith to fit into WASP America. 



Saints be praised that nice O'Bama fellow didn't do that...[:D]



Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:35:24 PM)

Well the norse raided the Irish settlements on a constant basis, taking slaves and pillaging goods.  With slaver comes rape and forced prostitution as well.  Just like the english with the scotts kinda thing just far earlier.  I dont think it was so much as the Norse loved their hot irish women but more like the norse took what they wanted including women cuz they were some bad asses HAHA!



mastervalentine -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:35:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I knew this post would piss off people.  Too bad, live with it.  If you weren't born Catholic, you probably aren't Irish.  Sorry, but that's the truth. 


Interesting, so you're saying religeon is the defining line of ancestry? Do a little research on St. Patrick. Hell, I'll do the work for you. He was a fifth century English missionary.

Look back a few hundred years earlier, to the suppression of the Druids by the Roman government. Somewhere around the 2nd century. Ancient Celtic societies in Western Europe, Britain, and Ireland. There's very little contemporary evidence, but by all means, do some research.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:36:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

I thought the name Scot came from Scota? (can't remember the origin, but I seem to remember it related to a myth, maybe of the Nine Waves, or Ninth Wave? have to see if I can find it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoti



Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:39:03 PM)

They say that the whole thing with saint patrick driving the snakes from ireland was actually him converting or murdering the druids.  Some of the druid tribes were represented with snakes...  As it goes with many catholic saints and their great deeds, they are discribed in ways to lower the actual attrocitie that took place by the "saint".



bipolarber -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:42:29 PM)

(shrug) I come from a long line of Germans. (almost 100%) I'm rather proud of my family, but like many here in America, you don't want to look too closely at the details. Most everyone who came here did so because most of the folks back in the "old country" considered us scum, and either made our lives hell so much that we wanted to leave, or forcibly uprooted us, and had us board the boats by near gunpoint.

Fuck Germany, fuck Ireland, fuck all of Europe, all of China and every other country that considered the continental US to be their dumping ground for undesireables. If you want to pine over some imagined connection to a country that probably treated your family like shit to be flushed... well, I guess that's your deal.



popeye1250 -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:46:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Briena

Well the norse raided the Irish settlements on a constant basis, taking slaves and pillaging goods.  With slaver comes rape and forced prostitution as well.  Just like the english with the scotts kinda thing just far earlier.  I dont think it was so much as the Norse loved their hot irish women but more like the norse took what they wanted including women cuz they were some bad asses HAHA!


Briena, yup, the History Channel has done 4 or 5 shows about Ireland and the Vikings in the last ten years or so.
One thing is for certain, the Vikings were greatly feared not just in Ireland but all over Europe.

Slaveboy, no, I don't think we'd be fighting in ages past, I think I'd probably be trying to fuck your daughter!

I have dual US/Irish citizenship as I'm entitled to it under Irish law and I applied for it at the Irish Consul in Boston, Mass.
When I was over in Donegal I met some people who still remembered my grandmother.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Popeye, you know what I'm talking about.  If my ancestors and your ancestors met each other, we'd be fighting. 


Depends on which ancestors and when they met really.

During and Post Cromwell until about 17teens... maybe, Post Famine and Parnell late 1800's through the 1920's probably again, and prior to your birth from the late 50's to early 90's could be... but for most of thier history, Popeye's right, the Gaelic Celts were fine with each other. In fact, many of Ireland's great champions, Tone Wolf, Robert Emmet, Henry Grattan, Charles Stewart Parnell were all Prods. That's why there is and Orange stripe in Ireland's National Flag.



Roselaure -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:51:20 PM)

quote:

When I was over in Donegal I met some people who still remembered my grandmother.


Now that is too cool, popeye.  Talk about roots!



Briena -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:57:20 PM)

The vikings were hot... :D  And as far as pagan religions go, I think the Norse gods were the best... Maybe Im biased because I lean more towards the heathen form of paganism, than the celtic or druid forms...  Being a pagan myself that is...  PLUS the concepts of Valhalla and of Hel are just mind blowingly awesome... See Im biased HAHA!



Leatherist -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 6:58:41 PM)

The last bit of "wicker man" was kind of amusing.



kittinSol -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 7:03:05 PM)

This thread is cracking me up [:D] .



popeye1250 -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 7:09:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

When I was over in Donegal I met some people who still remembered my grandmother.


Now that is too cool, popeye.  Talk about roots!


Roselaure, my grandmother was the head maid for the family that owned "Jordan Marsh" a dept store in Boston, Mass.
Every summer they'd go to England for two months and take her with them.
She'd take some time off while there and go over to Donegal and visit family and friends and help people out financially etc.
One time she brought back one of those "bouncing betty" bullets that the English Troops would shoot into unruley crowds.
I don't know where the hell she got it!
She was from a place called "Bredagh Glen" just outside Moeville, Donegal which is right next to Derry.



Leatherist -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 7:10:59 PM)

I'm actually from a dutch/scottish background-talk about the worst of everthing!



GreedyTop -> RE: Fake Irish (8/12/2008 7:12:13 PM)

Scots/Norwegian for me..only 5-6 generations removed from either place.



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