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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:08:08 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I pretty much figured out I am not suited as a service top when I did an experiment.

Curious minds would like to know why this experiment would make you not suited as a service top?


Because the suffering got me hard in ways that catering to her never did?

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:08:34 PM   
Sundowner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

So I want what I think is commonly referred to as a pain-slut (and what I had thought was a masochist).

What about a cross breed of the two? I am a pain slut when it comes to knives, single tails and floggers. But when it comes to canes, needles, electro play i am an unwilling masochist
 
quote:

(What is it about the north which produces a misst and a soft?)

The north just breeds well i guess



So that highlights my problem - I could happily whip you (knives live in the drawer thank you) but I couldn't happily cane you; I'd dislike it. But Deirdre (or whoever) who likes whips and canes, her I could very happily whip and cane with great pleasure.

And thank you, but whilst "pain-slut" somehow rolls off the tongue easily "a cross breed of the two" just doesn't flow.  




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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:18:54 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

So that highlights my problem - I could happily whip you (knives live in the drawer thank you) but I couldn't happily cane you; I'd dislike it. But Deirdre (or whoever) who likes whips and canes, her I could very happily whip and cane with great pleasure.

See the problem here is that whilst i am an unwilling masochist for the cane and hate them with a vengeance, i also love them and the feelings (emotional) they cause me to have.
 
quote:

And thank you, but whilst "pain-slut" somehow rolls off the tongue easily "a cross breed of the two" just doesn't flow.  

I wasn't actually offering my services lol, just pointing out that some of us (or is it just me) are a cross breed of the two.



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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:20:43 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I pretty much figured out I am not suited as a service top when I did an experiment.

Curious minds would like to know why this experiment would make you not suited as a service top?


Because the suffering got me hard in ways that catering to her never did?


Ah right i see, thank you.


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:32:39 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Anyway... bleed for me, baby! What... no takers???


This reminded me of a seminar we attended.  It was a well-known presenter and she was explaining how she deals with the "I have no limits" male bottoms who want to play with her.  She looked directly at me (as if I was one of those boys) and said that she would like to cut them up and then finger paint with their blood. 

I suppose normally, the person in the crowd that she picks to say this to does not get an expression of "oh goody, let's play!!!" on their face...  it stumped her a little when instead of looking afraid, I looked eager  *eg* I think I threw her off track...

Knight's Kyra

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:34:22 PM   
Maxwell67


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
If I wanted to hurt myself, I'd only ever, from this point forward, have missionary position vanilla sex.  That hurts.  I mean, really hurts.  I mean, biting my lip not to scream, reminding myself to breathe and counting slowly to one hundred hurts.  There is nothing pleasurable about that act, at all.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor about this, Ivy?  Are you saying penetration hurts?  Any penetration?  If so, it would be worth your seeing someone for it.  There could be something seriously wrong.  It is one thing to have some pain during sex, and another entirely to feel the way you describe.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:53:51 PM   
persephonee


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Status: offline 		LOL kyra...last year at the Flea in Providence i was sitting in on some seminar with boymeat who was talking about corporal punishment something-or-other and he had said at the beginning that we were NOT to read ahead on the handouts...and violators would be severely punished. At the end when it was time for questions i raised my hand and told on myself....while, sadly, i did not get punished, i sure did throw him for a loop!

And on topic now....

trying to find the perfect sadist is a lot like trying to nail jello to a tree.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 5:59:06 PM   
IvyMorgan


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From: Midlands, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But see, this is where that old semantic/definition bugaboo of D/s and BDSM comes into play as an exercise in frustration.

In BDSM and D/s, we have the "slave".  In BDSM and D/s, we have the "submissive".  Anybody want to throw numbers out there about how many threads have been posted about whether a D/s "slave" can even exist since he/she does not meet the dictionary definition of slave?  Anybody want to give the number of posts which state that a "slave" is not a slave when she doesn't even meet the criteria of the books written on BDSM and D/s VS the number of posts that say "fuck the books, a slave is what myself and my partner define it as" VS the number of posts that then turn around and state "Fine...but then do not be surprised if the minority/majority/all others within D/s and BDSM disagree with you"?

Now, in BDSM and D/s we have the "sadist" and the "masochist".  This is something a bit more simple.  I am sure you can find sadists and masochists within BDSM and D/s that fit the dictionary definition to a T.  But...according to the way that BDSM and D/s works for most of us, there are infinite variations on the definition of "sadist" and "masochist".  For some, a sadist is one who inflicts only heavy pain or distress...physically and/or emotionally...and may or may not care if his partner is enjoying it.  For some, a sadist is one who inflicts pain...mild, moderate, severe...on either a masochist or a pain slut so that his pleasure is added to by the increase of her own pleasure.  And so on...and so on.  A sadist that seems reluctant about actually hurting you may be someone who:
1.  has not played with you before and so has no idea where your level really is, despite what you told him about where it is and so goes cautiously, not only because of a genuine caring nature but a wish to avoid charges.
2.  may be a sadist but not at the extreme/mild level you wish him to be and somehow, communication about such broke down
3.  may be a human being whose consideration doesn't always get tamped down by his sadistic nature and who, admittedly, may be going a bit overboard in his concern and caution
4.  etc.



L
Right, but, to be blunt for a moment...

These men have *paid* to play with me.  They can do whatever they want, we natter, I mention masochism, I mention other kinks, I say I'm fairly open.

They pick masochism/sadism as the route they want to go down.

I've had men run from the room crying.  They so aren't sadists, of any description.

We're playing in a club, so pretty much limiting it to what can happen there, in about 20 minutes half a hour or so.

I don't dispute that there are many types of sadist, and many types of masochist.  I do point out that some people, really do run screaming, and it's false advertising, and it just leads to unhappiness and unfulfillment, for both parties.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:05:59 PM   
IvyMorgan


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From: Midlands, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
If I wanted to hurt myself, I'd only ever, from this point forward, have missionary position vanilla sex.  That hurts.  I mean, really hurts.  I mean, biting my lip not to scream, reminding myself to breathe and counting slowly to one hundred hurts.  There is nothing pleasurable about that act, at all.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor about this, Ivy?  Are you saying penetration hurts?  Any penetration?  If so, it would be worth your seeing someone for it.  There could be something seriously wrong.  It is one thing to have some pain during sex, and another entirely to feel the way you describe.

Ah, but see, if I'm tied down/up, it doesn't hurt (well, not in a bad way).  There are lots of ways it doesn't hurt.  I just get nothing from the vanilla style.

And, yes, I've mentioned this to drs, they seem not to mind too much.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:17:26 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Well this is an odd little moment for me.
 
I posted the OP 'Prediction and D/s' about dinner time and just now read the first wave of responses, and the very next thing I read is missturbation wriiting about almost the same thing.  Different of course, but still.
 
Anyway.
 
IMO one indicator of a 'good' man of any stripe..vanilla, kinky, gay, straight, old, young.yadda yadda yadda....is that he has friends.  Not just people he hangs around with but actual 'friends'..and some are women. And the converse is also true.
 
I know my mentor, whom I 'spoke' with daily for like, the first 18 months or so after I first discovered D/s, was sadistic.  I know little else about his D/s 'role' as he made it an article of faith that we were not engaged in getting to know one another...instead, he was the teacher/protector and I was the student/nitwit.
 
Apart from my mentor, in all the time I've been 'into D/s' I've only made friends with one sadist Dom.  I never stopped to consider whether, as among sadists, he'd be classed as 'extreme' or not...it was slow going just to grasp the fundamentals of his s & m dynamic. We've never explored any of the nuances.
 
How many Dom friends would I guess I've made?  Including ones who've been catch-as-catch-can, I'd say, about a dozen or two.  About five are women, and the rest are men.  So far, no TS/TV/CD Dom has even crossed my path. 
 
And what sort are they?  Well, predominately, they're just dead-on about domination.  One is Gorean, a few are poly, and one is sadistic. All of them are men.
 
What have I concluded?  Well, to make friends with a Dom, *I* need a very strong sense that they are *authentic* within a D/s context.  Anyone who strikes me as a wanna-be-Dom just isn't appealing to me.  Married?  Vanilla?  Young?  None of that seems to matter as long as they don't lie.  But somehow, a man who sees himself as a Dom but doesn't 'radiate' that to me isn't appealing to me as a friend. 
 
So, I have concluded:
 
1. Surprise, surprise.  Good men are scarce both within and without D/s, just like good women are.
 
2.  Real Doms are, to me, a subset of all men who see themselves as Doms.
 
3.  It's likely most real Doms are 'into D/s' for the domination.
 
4.  Of all the real Doms who are 'into D/s' for something 'extra' to domination, the most rare are sadists.
 
And lastly,
 
5. Oddly, there seem to be many more masos whom I regard as 'real' submissives or slaves or whatnot than there are 'real' sadists of any stripe.
 
Yea, I hear missturbation on this.  I'm sure masos have spent one helluva lot more time than I have ruminating on the matter, and many would agree with her.  A 'good sadistic Dom' is a rare bird indeed. 
 
All I can say is: remember, you only want 'one'.  (Assuming of course that you do; if not, please substitute whatever  number/noun you wish).  So it really does not matter if they all but one die off altogether, 'so long as' that last one is the 'right' one for you, and you for him/her.
 
candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 8/14/2008 6:28:47 PM >

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:19:35 PM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it. - Oscar Wilde


So I suppose I should weigh in here.  I am enjoying everything I am doing with Mine.  She can take a lot and love it, but there are things I want to do that I will never do to her.  Most of it is permanent, so of course, that is right out.  I have fantasies like directing Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus (which is a vicious bloodbath of a play) with no special effects.  Everything really happens (with willing actors, of course). I design special effects in addition to other theater work (I pretty much do everything that has to do with theater).  One of the high points in my career was designing the effects for a stage adaptation of the original screenplay"Reservoir Dogs" onstage in a  (it had scenes that were not in the film).  I can make it look like horrible things have been done to people,  it is cathartic.

I know that most my fantasies will go unfulfilled.  That is why they are called fantasies.  But there are a few things I am begining to hold out some hope for now.  It is a great thing for me just knowing there are people like y'all out there somewhere.  It renews my faith in.. umm...  Well, it renews my faith.  Thanks.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:27:47 PM   
swooshieone


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline 		At one point I found an incredible sadist. We enjoyed all the same types of play. But.....(There is always a but) because of my masochistic streak I could never really suffer for him. As a sadist I know he needed that....and though I wanted to give him that gift.....my body reacts the way it reacts. One may be able to fake an orgasm....but you can't really hide one. So I never really felt like I was able to truly suffer for him.

Vee

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:37:24 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
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From: Midlands, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: swooshieone

At one point I found an incredible sadist. We enjoyed all the same types of play. But.....(There is always a but) because of my masochistic streak I could never really suffer for him. As a sadist I know he needed that....and though I wanted to give him that gift.....my body reacts the way it reacts. One may be able to fake an orgasm....but you can't really hide one. So I never really felt like I was able to truly suffer for him.

Vee
I love the command "scream for me", I express the pain I'm feeling, and some pain is good, some pain is less good, some pain is "bad".  I'm not sure I ever really *suffer*, but there are reactions.

I'm sorry you and your sadist stopped clicking.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:38:04 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I disagree.........

there is alot of good sadist and alot of good masochists............

BUT........ there is only a very few good Masochists for me... and I am only a good sadist for a very few.


I think we do a disservice to sooooooo many people just because we don't connect with XYZ but we do with A.

There is nothing wrong with XYZ... they are good people... have alot going for them... in fact... we are friends.

The problem of using statements like a good sadist/masochist is hard to find... is that if they are not a good sadist/masochist... what are they... a Bad one?



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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 6:41:41 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I disagree.........

there is alot of good sadist and alot of good masochists............

BUT........ there is only a very few good Masochists for me... and I am only a good sadist for a very few.


I think we do a disservice to sooooooo many people just because we don't connect with XYZ but we do with A.

There is nothing wrong with XYZ... they are good people... have alot going for them... in fact... we are friends.

The problem of using statements like a good sadist/masochist is hard to find... is that if they are not a good sadist/masochist... what are they... a Bad one?




I dunno, KoM.

Maybe michael jackson fucked this up for all of us.

I would like to think that we are all Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Both sides of that same coin.

Good just seems kinda ---  well, fuckin' pansy at this point.

6

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"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
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Be seeing you...

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 10:21:13 PM   
twistedEuphoria


Posts: 20
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Status: offline 		Double post. Heh ^.^"


< Message edited by twistedEuphoria -- 8/14/2008 10:23:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/14/2008 10:22:47 PM   
twistedEuphoria


Posts: 20
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

Not sure if this has anything to do with the topic (in fact I am pretty sure it doesn't), but I don't consider myself much of a physical masochist (despite the mouth full of blood my one slave was spitting up last night).  I much prefer to break a girl down from the inside out.

Taggard



You make it sound as if you punched me in the stomach and I started spewing blood! LOL

Really, folks, it was just because of an evil bit gag.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 1:10:32 AM   
urdungeonqueen


Posts: 7
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline 		It's late and I have a bad relationships with keyboards but I'm compelled to comment.I do find the thread interesting .I always had a problem with the idea that the sadists response to the masochist's plea "beat me" ought to be "no".
Nonconsensual non scene physical and mental torture and abuse comes to mind.
These images may feed sexual fantasies but I find it hard to accept that the sexual masochist in a bdsm context would wish to be a victum to real(non-consensual) torture .
The difference is consent. Consent out of altruism is still out of a Desire (say possibly for a state of selflessness )and therefore provides form of pleasure or satisfaction.
The part that interests me is the way the will can transmute the unpleasureable experience . For me as a sadist the thrill comes from watching the submission in spite of oneself . This is really pushing someone's boundaries and seeing the conflict within them..... the wanting and not wanting become wanting and not wanting over and over. The knowledge that the other is flying awestruct repulsed and fascinated fuels my sadism.
Yes I agree that we are in service of each other.
The idea of control comes to mind. Because though consent is given and can be withdrawn we do want to exchange control and so the consent is to giving up control which is tested by pushing prodding poking the boundary of what is acceptable . When there is no STRUGGLE within the m to continue to submit it is not satisfying to my sadism. But if it isn't turning their crank in SOME way it wouldn't a thing for me. Though ultimately if total surrender occurs I become the nurturer.
The same person( I speak for myself) can be a s and a service top and an m and whatever but not at the same time they are only ways of behaving in relation to another.
About those runaway doms afraid to draw blood...its probably a good thing cuz they have no feeling for it.
Sleep tight.

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 1:13:56 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly.

If I feel it's all about the bottom-it's not fun for me.

If it's all about me, I wonder "who the fuck is that altruistic?"

But when I see the *struggle*-that's what turns me on.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 5:23:06 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I disagree.........

there is alot of good sadist and alot of good masochists............

BUT........ there is only a very few good Masochists for me... and I am only a good sadist for a very few.


I think we do a disservice to sooooooo many people just because we don't connect with XYZ but we do with A.

There is nothing wrong with XYZ... they are good people... have alot going for them... in fact... we are friends.

The problem of using statements like a good sadist/masochist is hard to find... is that if they are not a good sadist/masochist... what are they... a Bad one?





The thread title was said very tongue in cheek to be honest.
I am not calling anyone a bad sadist. As i have repeatedly said in this thread i mean a sadist who plays to my level is hard to find.

 
 

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 100
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