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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 5:23:39 AM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

[snip]
Might i add here yes i am whinging and i'm very sure i'm also spelling masochistic wrong !!
Edited to add - i can't spell the eel infection either and frankly i couldn't be arsed getting my dictionary out

A good gag would stop that whining. ...it can be arranged.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 5:38:25 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

[snip]
Might i add here yes i am whinging and i'm very sure i'm also spelling masochistic wrong !!
Edited to add - i can't spell the eel infection either and frankly i couldn't be arsed getting my dictionary out

A good gag would stop that whining. ...it can be arranged.

RS i would give my left arm (i'm right handed) to have you gag me and torture me. You ARE my kind of sadist

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 7:08:01 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I disagree.........

there is alot of good sadist and alot of good masochists............

BUT........ there is only a very few good Masochists for me... and I am only a good sadist for a very few.

I think we do a disservice to sooooooo many people just because we don't connect with XYZ but we do with A.

There is nothing wrong with XYZ... they are good people... have alot going for them... in fact... we are friends.

The problem of using statements like a good sadist/masochist is hard to find... is that if they are not a good sadist/masochist... what are they... a Bad one?

The thread title was said very tongue in cheek to be honest.
I am not calling anyone a bad sadist. As i have repeatedly said in this thread i mean a sadist who plays to my level is hard to find.

I know I am going to come across as a nitpicky bitch but that really isn't my intent.

I think I would read that as alot less condescending to masochists that do not like the same sort of play if it were worded ".....a sadist who likes the same type of play I do is hard to find." Rather than "level".

The reason being the perception of elitist measurement. Like, "Because I like play that involves blood letting I am somehow a higher level, or better, masochist and they are a higher level, better, sadist."

As though, if a masochist does not sustain extreme physical damage then the sadist nor the masochist are not "as good as" those that do that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes sense at all. Just the way I can imagine others reading it.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 7:34:41 AM

gypsygrl

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quote:

The reason being the perception of elitist measurement. Like, "Because I like play that involves blood letting I am somehow a higher level, or better, masochist and they are a higher level, better, sadist."

As though, if a masochist does not sustain extreme physical damage then the sadist nor the masochist are not "as good as" those that do that sort of thing.

Just a thought on comparisons and ranking different play styles. I call myself a masochist mostly because I don't know what else to call someone who spends her free-time looking for ways to get hurt or getting hurt. Sometimes I like the pain, sometimes I don't and sometimes, I can't tell whether I like it or not. Relative to the general population, I'm one far out freaky bitch. Relative to the bd/sm community, I'm a cautious, conservative player who is excessively pre-occupied with the thought of breaking her bones. Even so, I do some 'edgy' stuff like cutting. Cutting doesn't feel edgy to me. It doesn't really feel painful at all, though Im sure the right person with the right knife could make it painful. At the same time, there's some very main line, introductory stuff I don't go near (when I'm bottoming and have that choice). Clothespins on the tits? Not me. It literally took me years to enjoy a spanking even though tons of vanilla folks do that as a matter of course, without much thought.

I guess my point is that, at least for me, its impossible to say how much I love/hate pain and how 'good' a masochist I am. I'm generally well behaved, so in that sense I'm pretty good. But, beyond that, who knows. It depends. Context is everything. These things are situational.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 7:37:14 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The reason being the perception of elitist measurement. Like, "Because I like play that involves blood letting I am somehow a higher level, or better, masochist and they are a higher level, better, sadist."

I have a huge issue with so much of the elitist perceptions.... the problem is alot of people that do it are not aware they are doing it. Frankly, I equate this elitist crap along the same line as I am Dom Respect me..... or I am Selfless Scarificing Slave.... etc etc etc.

If people spent alittle more time getting to know the character of the people they become involved with and less of what they Do and can do for a person... maybe we wouldn't have so many train wrecks and dysfunctional relationships. I am NOT a big fan of all that Negotiation stuff that you see being spouted all over the place... because .... Most Negotiation is all about what I want to do to you and what you can't do to me..... I see very little about should you EVEN be Negotiating at all with the person.

I think Dark's ABC thread is a good thread. So many people are not following the pop culture wisdom. So many successful relationships never Negotiate.... So many successful relationships are actually interested in getting to know the person... and what's amazing for the Pop Culture advocates... these relationship succeed!

As far as an Elitist....... I must be one..... There is not alot that I haven't done... and it seems my rep precedes me to people I don't even know........ Last weekend we went to the big city to the Monthly play party. At the event... an individual I befriended introduced me to his girl. ( as a note.. they both address me as Sir.. Pump the elitism) Anyways... in quick talk the Friend mention that is girl is very new and gentle and squeaks rather loudly when squeezed. I smile nicely... "oh, let me try"....... Well the poor girl as this scared look on her.. and all she can say....."Oh no.... I heard rumors about you"............. So apparently... I am talked about around the camp fire when it's scary story time.

I know that I do alot that others don't... I know that I am alot more intense that most... I know that I strict with the protocals with my girls.... I know that I am alot of things compared to others... but frankly... it is meaningless if I am not having Fun and enjoying myself in doing what I am doing... or for anyone else for that matter. It is not about being an intense sadist or one that gets talked about at the camp fire... it's about having fun. And I can have alot of fun doing alot of different things......... which include causing no pain at all. Do I cause alot of Pain... you bet... but not if it is not fun for those involved.

Incidently.. I did have an opportunity to give the girl a squeeze later in the nite.... I came from behind.. surprized her.. and she didn't even squeal (pout).... but she did look up at me ... slightly embarrassed for blocking my path... but also I think alittle enamored as well. I had an opporunity to listen to her and liked her.. she is going to do well.. intelligent and self-aware.. I look forward to watch her as she walks on her journey.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 8:29:52 AM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I disagree.........

there is alot of good sadist and alot of good masochists............

BUT........ there is only a very few good Masochists for me... and I am only a good sadist for a very few.

I think we do a disservice to sooooooo many people just because we don't connect with XYZ but we do with A.

There is nothing wrong with XYZ... they are good people... have alot going for them... in fact... we are friends.

The problem of using statements like a good sadist/masochist is hard to find... is that if they are not a good sadist/masochist... what are they... a Bad one?

The thread title was said very tongue in cheek to be honest.
I am not calling anyone a bad sadist. As i have repeatedly said in this thread i mean a sadist who plays to my level is hard to find.

I know I am going to come across as a nitpicky bitch but that really isn't my intent.

I think I would read that as alot less condescending to masochists that do not like the same sort of play if it were worded ".....a sadist who likes the same type of play I do is hard to find." Rather than "level".

The reason being the perception of elitist measurement. Like, "Because I like play that involves blood letting I am somehow a higher level, or better, masochist and they are a higher level, better, sadist."

As though, if a masochist does not sustain extreme physical damage then the sadist nor the masochist are not "as good as" those that do that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes sense at all. Just the way I can imagine others reading it.

I know the thread wasn't started as a way to crow about being 'better' but yes, it did come across that way a bit. I was astonished that it was suggested that people who are not masochists should decline attention from extreme or real or good Sadists so that the extreme or real or good masochists can have a larger pool to choose from. As I mentioned, my Master is totally capable of and would greatly enjoy nailing tits to a board and then maybe dripping salt water on the wounds, but He was not seeking just anyone who would be willing, He was seeking a life's partner and particularly a life partner who does not kill His Sadist buzz by flying off into subspace. And my word, how boring it would be if I had to only play at my own 'level' so to speak! My fear excites Him and my admiration of Him inspires me and how much I love it that He presents me with ever higher levels to attain!

It is frustrating sometimes to seek out compatible partners whether play partners, life partners, or what have you. To find that one who "gets" you, where the planets all align and the Universe shifts into place. And in that, I fully understand and am sympathetic to that frustration.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 8:43:10 AM

Maxwell67

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quote:

ORIGINAL: urdungeonqueen
The difference is consent. Consent out of altruism is still out of a Desire (say possibly for a state of selflessness )and therefore provides form of pleasure or satisfaction.
The part that interests me is the way the will can transmute the unpleasureable experience . For me as a sadist the thrill comes from watching the submission in spite of oneself . This is really pushing someone's boundaries and seeing the conflict within them..... the wanting and not wanting become wanting and not wanting over and over. The knowledge that the other is flying awestruct repulsed and fascinated fuels my sadism.

What a beautiful way to describe it. Yes, I agree completely. This is what does it for me also. That look of love and pain, fear and desire, all playing across her face as she struggles to deal with the flood of sensations.. That and the knowledge she trusts me enough to want me do these things to her, even when those things scare her so much her eyes go wide and her scream comes out as a little squeek and she pees a little... lovely!

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 8:52:58 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know I am going to come across as a nitpicky bitch but that really isn't my intent.

I think I would read that as alot less condescending to masochists that do not like the same sort of play if it were worded ".....a sadist who likes the same type of play I do is hard to find." Rather than "level".

The reason being the perception of elitist measurement. Like, "Because I like play that involves blood letting I am somehow a higher level, or better, masochist and they are a higher level, better, sadist."

As though, if a masochist does not sustain extreme physical damage then the sadist nor the masochist are not "as good as" those that do that sort of thing.

I don't know if that makes sense at all. Just the way I can imagine others reading it.

As you bring it up, I can see your point, and the possibility of that happening, but I can tell you that around our house, we talk about 'levels' too. For example, I consider play-piercing to be a lower level scene FOR ME than branding, only because play-piercing leaves some marks that last for a little while, but not forever, and while the risk is high because of the need for decent technique, and the presence of open wounds and blood, it still is not the same as the level of damage and permanence when using the branding pen.

I guess, too, that I figure that nobody else can see my headspace, so the intensity of the activity is the only criteria they are judging.... since I don't base my value as a domina on the intensity level that I'm scening with, I guess it never occurred to me to either judge anyone else or accept a value judgment about myself based on that criteria.

CFB

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 10:24:44 AM

leakylee

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i am using fast reply. i understand where all this is coming from. as a massochist that does lean towards the more extreme on most levels finding that sadist as a life partner would be ideal. just because i can float into lala land doesnt mean that i am allowed to, or that i dont get brought back. alot of that depends on the person i am playing with. his ability to draw me back increases the amount of pain i can recieve, and it annoys the hell out of me. i suffer mentally from being pulled out. (doesnt mean i dont adore the bastard for it, but still)

the 'extreme' side also tends to run on the relationship and dynamic edge of things as well. in MY experience, those that arent intimadated by the more warped sense of my kinks and masso side, dont tend to be on the dynamic side either. sometimes that edge of brutality is appealing on mulitple levels. (edge now) it really is that simple. i think it comes down to styles and preferences.

lee

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:16:09 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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Don't tell me you girls have the hots for Hannibal Lector. This would explain a lot of things to me. lol

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:36:51 AM

CreativeDominant

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To move away from the "are you sadistic/masochistic if you do/don't do this?" aspect...which I have already addressed...let's go the side of the difficulty of finding a compatible partner.

So, you are looking for a sadist/masochist that plays at your 'extreme' levels. But you also want them to be a kind and loving partner who takes care of you/nurtures you/wants to spend time with you. Can two such seeming opposites be found in one person? Sure...but generally, one side or the other is going to be compromised a bit.

Not to pick on you, misst but a couple of weeks ago, you had a thread about letting go of the Dominant that you'd been involved with for quite awhile. He'd been a great sadist and so forth but the two of you knew that you were never going to be long-term and you found yourself needing a partner for that. Most people who wish to enter into long-term relationships...though not all, I will grant you...want to do so with someone they love or at least care very much about. But that loving and guiding and nurturing and supportive and protective and caring side often times runs up against the sadistic and intense and cruel and heartless side. Ask anyone like Merc or Knight or Michael or myself or others how often that happens. I've made note on prior threads about how that "sadistic beast" needs the freedom to exist but also needs a leash (and has one) which keeps him from being the one to exist at all times. But that leash also helps to keep the sadist somewhat in check so though we may go extreme, we might not go as extreme as someone who does not have an emotional stake in the BDSM play with you would. Not simply because we don't want to break our toys but because we would care if we did and we wouldn't just move on to the next play partner rather than deal with the "inconvenience" of waiting for her to heal.

Yes, I can see the difficulty...struggle with it myself. But in the long run...for me...it comes down to finding someone that understands that yes, my extremes can be extreme to many but very mild when compared to others'...and that the reasoning behind that is so much more involved than the fact that there are some forms of play I just don't like and that there are some forms of play at which I would question my own mental and inner core.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:44:29 AM

Leatherist

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How about a hot transexual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrA2k1zasm8&feature=related

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 8/15/2008 11:45:54 AM >

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:48:14 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

i am using fast reply. i understand where all this is coming from. as a massochist that does lean towards the more extreme on most levels finding that sadist as a life partner would be ideal. just because i can float into lala land doesnt mean that i am allowed to, or that i dont get brought back. alot of that depends on the person i am playing with. his ability to draw me back increases the amount of pain i can recieve, and it annoys the hell out of me. i suffer mentally from being pulled out. (doesnt mean i dont adore the bastard for it, but still)

the 'extreme' side also tends to run on the relationship and dynamic edge of things as well. in MY experience, those that arent intimadated by the more warped sense of my kinks and masso side, dont tend to be on the dynamic side either. sometimes that edge of brutality is appealing on mulitple levels. (edge now) it really is that simple. i think it comes down to styles and preferences.

lee

I've noticed that I tend to get into a pretty reptilian headspace when I play heavily-callous rather than caring. It does carry over in my relationships with "objects."

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:55:35 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

How about a hot transexual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrA2k1zasm8&feature=related

Now that's some love that truely never dies... talk about taking things skin deep and gutting the rest of it. It possible to find somebody who's willing put the Lotion in the Basket, so I can prove that I'm an uber sadist and not just some orinary run of the mill fluffy bunny Dom. lol...

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 11:57:16 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

How about a hot transexual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrA2k1zasm8&feature=related

Now that's some love that truely never dies... talk about taking things skin deep and gutting the rest of it. It possible to find somebody who's willing put the Lotion in the Basket, so I can prove that I'm an uber sadist and not just some orinary run of the mill fluffy bunny Dom. lol...

Take the skin and peel it back..and doesn't it make you feel BETTER?

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 12:19:15 PM

subtee

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~FR

Pfffft. I've been killed so many times.....I'm a good girl, I am.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 9:19:02 PM

NeedingMore220

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quote:

I've noticed that I tend to get into a pretty reptilian headspace when I play heavily-callous rather than caring. It does carry over in my relationships with "objects."

I find that an interesting statement. How does your callousness affect your object? I'm assuming if she's your object, then maybe she has a rather keen objectification kink herself? I always wondered what the downsides would be to that sort of relationship - I'm drawn to objectification, but wonder if I'd lose chunks of myself in the process ...

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 9:48:58 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedingMore220

quote:

I've noticed that I tend to get into a pretty reptilian headspace when I play heavily-callous rather than caring. It does carry over in my relationships with "objects."

I find that an interesting statement. How does your callousness affect your object? I'm assuming if she's your object, then maybe she has a rather keen objectification kink herself? I always wondered what the downsides would be to that sort of relationship - I'm drawn to objectification, but wonder if I'd lose chunks of myself in the process ...

it cycles, depending on interactions. Some women find a sense of comfort in just being used as things. And open anus, tied and avalaible to be impaled. Or diapered and forgotten in a cage for several hours. Grooving on the feeling of helplessness as thier bodies cause them discomfort, and then degredation.

You basically only lose what you want to in the long run.

Mostly inhibitions and ingrained taboos.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 9:58:36 PM

NeedingMore220

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Ok, I get that part, Leatherist, thanks for explaining.

I was also wondering how your playing heavy-callous carries over in your relationships with these 'objects'. What effect does you being callous have on the object? Is it something they also get off on? Is it something you can turn on and off with each person, depending on her and your needs?

Thanks for your patience in answering... it's much appreciated.

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RE: A good sadist / masochist is hard to find.... - 8/15/2008 10:02:04 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedingMore220

Ok, I get that part, Leatherist, thanks for explaining.

I was also wondering how your playing heavy-callous carries over in your relationships with these 'objects'. What effect does you being callous have on the object? Is it something they also get off on? Is it something you can turn on and off with each person, depending on her and your needs?

Thanks for your patience in answering... it's much appreciated.

It can be fun to be a jerk?

tell someone,"Get over it, and just fucking do it bitch?"

It's not like I'm that way 24/7-or need to hammer someone into the ground. But there are *moments* when someone really IS being a twit-and it gets the point acoss-and they look at what they are doing.

If the bad is mine, I deal with it-it's not a way to pass the buck.

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