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RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives


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RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly me... - 8/16/2008 8:13:50 AM   
Sundowner


Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

~ waves to Ravenmuse, morning! ~

I would tend to agree ... until you are fit and ready to stand on your own two feet, hold onto something.



Oh soft! Then you miss out the experience of falling over. 

I'm with DV - I see a society where people spend time telling others how to live their lives safely and where people feel it's better to hold on instead of standing on their own two feet. And I see a society where people believe that if something does go wrong there'll be compensation even when they didn't apply their own common sense.

And like DV I'm not attracted to it. If you let others tell you how to live, if you don't risk falling over, then your children of the future lose the ability to think for themselves. They grow up thinking the world owes them a living, that competition and consequences are scary, that they must follow the herd. (And that it's wrong not to use a safeword). 
  
There's another risk - that SSC in bdsm will develop too far and our fun way of life, far from becoming more acceptable, will be outlawed as too dangerous.

But as always there's a good side. DV's children, and yours (if you're with us), will grow up strong and independent and capable with common sense. And if they're lucky enough to be bright too they'll walk all over the pale wimps who will be the bulk of the population.

There's a world of difference between wearing a crash helmet because you judge it sensible and wearing it because someone else thought you should. Same thing with safewords.

(And before you flame me soft it's ok - I know you and I know you didn't mean it the way I've exampled it above - you're not a wimp, else DV wouldn't love you for who you are!)


(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly me... - 8/16/2008 8:41:40 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
Fear is nothing other than not knowing or not understanding, nothing more, nothing less. Life is not just about finding out or learning, but also about making it through to the sunrise.

Edited to add a missing word.

< Message edited by stella41b -- 8/16/2008 8:43:34 AM >


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(in reply to Sundowner)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly me... - 8/16/2008 11:14:07 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
Dreams:

Yep, sorry.  Please consider my post a very good reason why you shouldn't reply to things at 3am, especially when you reply to what you remember reading, and don't go back and check that that is what you read.

Ivy

(in reply to DreamsOfSpider)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly me... - 8/16/2008 12:29:39 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory


I remember long summer days playing with the neighborhood kids until the last twinkle of light, then running home for a really late dinner.  Mom hadn't seen us all day long and trusted us to take care of ourselves.  We did.  Walking along the tops of fences to get to the kumquats in the neighbor's yard and evading his dog.  Get bitten its your own damned fault.  Owning BB guns and later going rabbit hunting with the .22, at 12. 


I remember those days too...fondly.  I yearn for them sometimes when the hassle of being an adult gets to be a bit much.  But what has happened in the 45 years of my life since then that I had to stop my kids from doing that?
a.  A society that really believes that its "re-education" programs have done the trick now turns loose pedophiles out of jail back into the streets when they really aren't cured...thereby putting my kids in danger on dark streets when they were little.
b.  Parents that didn't want...and weren't allowed, even if they wanted...to smack little Tommy for pointing that gun where he shouldn't.  Therefore, just take the damn guns away from everyone rather than go after the parents and kids at fault.  Corporation that makes BB guns=bad.  Parents that don't parent...and aren't allowed to...=good. 
c.  People that feel they should sue when their baby gets bit by a dog because after all...how CAN you expect little Susie to know enough to stay in her own yard OR how can you expect Bob and Mary to look at their kid and discipline them for being where they should not have been?  Especially when the society that "must prevent abuse and build children's self-esteem (funny...I thought you earned self-esteem by doing things right)" does not allow you to "cripple" her little spirit with discipline?
So...you can fight these rules because most of them are wimp-ass and you can bring your kids up respecting authority and other peoples' property and sometimes, you luck out.  You can realize that it is not always safe out there and yet, reluctantly, bring your child in before dark. 

quote:

Fighting a neighbor kid in the street, coming home bloody and being told "I hope you won, or your dad'll whip your ass".  Getting my ass whupped when I deserved it.  Being told to fight my own fights.  Growing up to do just that

Yeah, my kids wear helmets now, I wear a seatbelt.  I don't litter, I obey the law.  Got my first speeding ticket ever in the last 12 months.


Yep...that's why my dad taught me hand-to-hand fighting and fisticuffs when I was young.  So I could defend myself.  But that will buy you assault charges now, against your kid, for daring to defend himself against a bully.  I agree...nannyism overload...but on the other hand, it has stopped at least a few bullies.

quote:

That's not the point.

Life isnt' safe, and it never will be safe.  It isn't skydiving unless you jump out of an airplane.  Going to the mall and having a 'skydiving experience' where they blow air up your ass for five minutes is *much* safer... and it isnt skydiving.  Snorkelling isnt scuba, but it sure is safer.


But what is the point here?  If it is comparison, then I agree...a skydiving experience such as you describe is not skydiving.  And anyone who thinks it is has a screw loose.  But let's look at real skydiving.  I jumped out of airplanes and helicopters for the "UNK" for 4 years, both static-line and free-fall.  Static line is arguably safer but I saw guys die from tangled chutes in those cases too.  But it was rare.  Not because "life isn't safe" but because all that could be done to promote proper technique and safety techniques could not overcome the odds.  Not because we went at it with the attitude of "Fuck the reserve chute, let's go for it". 

quote:

Safe, Sane, Consensual .... checking in after each flogger stroke... having the nanny DM present at all times.... making sure you dont offend anyone ever, reducing your play to the lowest common denominator of sanity, safety, consensuality... this is what I rail against.  In my world, it isn't even BDSM, its some kind of sport fucking with kneepads.  Maybe.  Hell, maybe there's not even gonna be any sex.  What's that leave? A massage with odd implements?


Parts of this I agree with and parts I don't.  New partner...checking in with them not after every flogger stroke but occasionally?  Yeah.  Ongoing partner but new toy being used so checking in occasionally?  Yeah.  The many reasons for having a DM present have been given so no need to go into that but in all honesty, were I to own a club and facing liability issues because someone wants to be allowed to play however they choose, no matter the risk, then I would have him present to step in and say "No" to certain activities.  Nannyist?  No, because you came to MY club...so you play by MY rules.  If you don't want to, then find a club that allows you to play your way or go home.  No one is stopping you there...and if you are into playing in front of others, invite like-minded friends.  Perhaps they'll chip in for the medical bills so the rest of us don't have to.  Nannyist is when you want to force me...the one bearing the expenses...to do what YOU want and get the government to back you (the no-smoking rule imposed on every single restaurant in Colorado.

quote:

Nope, there is an edge out there.  There's a darkness out there.  An interplay of fear, actual real fear, passion... hot sweaty passionate fucking, and fun... adult fun with a certain wildness.  So yeah, wear the seatbelt, wear the helmet, shave with a mach-3, and hide in the light... but you know, there's something to be said for riding in the back of a pickup in the middle of the night to a swimming hole you don't know the location of with a girl you've just met... and intend to fuck the shit out of.  Pass the tequila, man.  Let the party begin.


Sure there is an edge.  It is just that some of us don't always like to play on the edge where the odds are most in the favor of someone getting harmed or dying.  We accept that we can't mitigate all risk so we balk at the idea of not only wearing seatbelts but being forced to drive 5 miles an hour on the interstate...hell, even 55 miles an hour on roads that were built for 75 - 80.  We accept that we can't mitigate all risk so we sign a waiver promising not to hold the skydiving club liable for anything other than negligence or faulty equipment on their part and yet, listen to the safety lecture instead of thinking we will figure it all out or remember our past on the way down.  The back of that pick-up?  That girl?  Had her...been there, done that...and could spend the next 3 days recovering and not have to worry about all the diseases that came about from just a little too much sexual freedom and not enough attention paid to minimizing risks.  Bring on the tequila...but at least let me make sure that I won't be dying in 10 years because the girl has fucked everyone else she has been with and never bothered to check them.  I've got a grand-um I'd like to be around for, at least for a little while.
Call it conformity...I don't.  I call it living life to my own tune and that tune doesn't necessarily have to fit society's note for note NOR does it have to fit your outlaw tune...it can harmonize with both melodies while remaining a tune of its own.



< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/16/2008 12:45:37 PM >

(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 104
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