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RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/24/2008 8:00:06 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

Neither do I to be honest, but one of my friends in specific constantly says that she isnt submissive at all, she doesnt really explain it well but i guess its just how she feels.

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 61

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/24/2008 9:03:21 AM

countrytop

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

Absolutely, be upfront about what you're looking for. Before is the correct time to negotiate because it's inappropriate for a sub to negotiate once the scene has started. If you're looking for bondage and you're talking to someone who likes to inflict pain, you NEED to know what he is into. The only time you can negotiate once the scene starts is if you determine that the Master was lying about things. A negotiation is a contract and you need to deliver and he needs to only participate in the activities he agreed to. "No limits" means you waive that right. Don't ever say "no limits" and then start coming up with them later on.

< Message edited by countrytop -- 8/24/2008 9:05:34 AM >

(in reply to moonbeam713)

Post #: 62

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/24/2008 7:22:25 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Neither do I to be honest, but one of my friends in specific constantly says that she isnt submissive at all, she doesnt really explain it well but i guess its just how she feels.

Would you mind asking her and getting back to me? I really am curious as to how that works.

Thanks,

phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 63

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 3:51:43 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

So you are telling Me that if you are alone on a rock... you are gay? You stop being straight? Thats 'just wiring too' are you telling Me that for you it changes if you are alone?

No, I'm *asking* you what it matters to you whether you're gay, straight, kinky, sterile, blah blah IF you're outside a relationship or marooned alone somewhere.

quote:

Or are you telling Me that this isn't how you are wired, that it is something you DO rather than something you are?

Of course I get "wiring"! I'm wired to be Dominant, NOT submissive. I'm wired to be straight, NOT gay. I'm wired (and built) to be male, NOT female. These things don't change whether I'm in multiple relationships or marooned alone on Mars - they just lose relevance and importance if there's no-one complementingly compatible to act on them with.

quote:

For Me and for many, this is who We ARE, how We are wired. Alone or not Our wiring doesn't change. A slave is still a slave, a Master is still a Master.... I don't look for a submissive and hope I can persuaide her to "pretend to be a slave for Me" I look for someone who is wired that way, someone who IS a slave, someone compatable, a relationship where We can both be fully ourselves with no pretence.

If it is just a hat you put on at 'playtime' for You then it is no wonder you can't comprehend it.

This is where you're stretching the bounds of credibility. While I "get" the wiring differences between Dom and sub and that each is what they are whether in a relationship or living alone, I simply don't accept a Master (or slave) is still a Master when outside a relationship. IE, Dom or sub constitutes an inherent wiring difference - a difference I don't see between Dom and Master. No-one is wired to be married, for eg, you simply are or you aren't and it's the presence of the wife which justifies that status, not some hokey, alleged special wiring!

Raven, you're always a man but not always a husband - *that's* what I'm telling you. Only I used a different example that qualifies in the same way - you're always a Dom but not always a Master. Husband or Master are roles symbolic of your particular relationship with a complementing opposite - they have nothing to do with your *individual* wiring and the role/title doesn't even exist if not validated by the existance of your wife or slave....

When I read a profile that uses semantics like "uncollared slave", it gives me insight into what that particular submissive seeks in a *relationship*. But being a practical kinda fella, it also gives me pause when someone uses an oxymoron to describe their individual self that way. And when a Master does the equivalent same, it comes across as posturing and the keeping up of appearances - THAT'S wearing hats.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 64

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 4:29:17 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
THAT'S wearing hats.

Being one thing in public and another in private is wearing hats. You obviously see it as a role You play when in the presence of a slave... for Me (and Many Others) is it simply what We are, the slave simply enables that to be fully expressed but it doesn't change what We ARE.

Whilst You 'say' that You get 'wiring' Your words show that You don't. An unowned girl who identifies as slave is simply acknowledging her wiring, it is who she is, how she is wired. When I am seeking, because I am a Master (And that is how *I* am wired) such a girl is likely to catch My attention more than any submissive because there is much higher likelyhood that there will be a greater degree of compatability.

What she is doesn't change because she hasn't got a Master.... she seeks to go from being unfulfilled unowned slave to a fulfilled owned one. I am not looking for a submissive who thinks it maybe fun to put on a 'slave' hat and play at it for a while.

The differences maybe 'hokey' to You... maybe because You are a hat wearer and to You, 'Matser' is something You DO, something You play at rather than something You ARE?

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 65

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 10:33:49 AM

Bstardsbitch

Posts: 154
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline

*Twirls with a slave hat*...just for Raven

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 66

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 11:12:59 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

If that is ALL you are twirling with.. We want pics!!!!!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Bstardsbitch)

Post #: 67

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 11:20:28 AM

Briena

Posts: 196
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline

I agree with this. I cant believe it... I have never read a post of Ravens that I agreed with until now LOL!

I would discribe a slave as someone more into TPE, whereas a submissive would not give up so much control. A slave is someone where the decision made for them, and under most circumstances it is final. A submissive still would continue to make his/her own decisions and discuss them with their Dom, and they would then come to an agreement that they could both live with; just like in a vanilla marriage, where you make dicisions together with your spouse. A slave is looking for someone to take control of almost everything, if not everything in his/her life. Who they can associate with, if they can have a job, finances, where they can sleep, if they can go out, etc.... Just because a slave does not have a Master does not mean that his/her personality does not desire to have these things. He/she still has a slaves mindset, just without the owner to guide him/her. That is a slave, to me anyways.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 68

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 1:07:59 PM

robertblair

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

I believe that someone who has never been collared is not a slave. Someone who was once collared and currently is not is a former slave as in: former slave, not currently looking, or, former slave currently looking for a new master.

(in reply to badlilthang)

Post #: 69

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 1:09:37 PM

robertblair

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I only refer to myself as 'Master' when I'm in an M/s *relationship* - actually owning a slave is what validates the claim. Otherwise, I'm a Dom; I don't need anyone else in my life to validate that.

Calling yourself a slave when you're unowned is kinda like calling yourself a wife when you're not married....

Focus.

*** i see You call Yourself a Dom - when You do not own a slave - but what - in Your opinion - should a slave call herself when not owned? This is asked seriously...because i feel i am who i am - owned or not?***

(in reply to badlilthang)

Post #: 70

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 5:44:56 PM

Huntertn

Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline

As a friend once said "A dork is still a dork!! You have every right to seek that which fits you....as for what someone asked..A slave was still a slave while at the auction house befor the sale...enough said...be what You where ment to be.. a slave

(in reply to quickened)

Post #: 71

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/25/2008 7:29:03 PM

mketom

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline

Your looking for a certain type of person. You have the right to ask for what ever your looking for in that person That you want to hmet and ssspend time with

(in reply to quickened)

Post #: 72

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/26/2008 11:56:05 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
THAT'S wearing hats.

Being one thing in public and another in private is wearing hats.

Interesting way to characterise those people who like their privacy, don'tcha reckon? They're not real and sincere, either?

quote:

You obviously see it as a role You play when in the presence of a slave... for Me (and Many Others) is it simply what We are, the slave simply enables that to be fully expressed but it doesn't change what We ARE.

"Role" is such an inadequate description and creates confusion in its own right; but it's also pretty much all we have.... I see being Master as a "role" on about the same scale as "husband" is a role, yes. It is a role of committment to *another*....

And I see your passionate defence, esp the regular slurs, as evidence you're threatened by such scrutiny of this alleged Master "wiring" - that you're trying too hard to convince one of us that your dynamic is superior to mine. If it moves things along, I'm fine with you pretending you know me. But I think the speculator I posed in an earlier post about this possibly being about perceived status and hierarchy etc looks closer to the mark with every word....

quote:

Whilst You 'say' that You get 'wiring' Your words show that You don't. An unowned girl who identifies as slave is simply acknowledging her wiring, it is who she is, how she is wired. When I am seeking, because I am a Master (And that is how *I* am wired) such a girl is likely to catch My attention more than any submissive because there is much higher likelyhood that there will be a greater degree of compatability.

There is the "language" of BDSM.... You'll doubtless be surprised that I don't roll my eyes and indignantly shout "Next!" when I meet someone or read a profile that describes as "unowned or uncollared slave", despite the fact it is a bemusing oxymoron. I understand perfectly what they're saying - that's cool with me; it passes the communication test.

quote:

What she is doesn't change because she hasn't got a Master.... she seeks to go from being unfulfilled unowned slave to a fulfilled owned one. I am not looking for a submissive who thinks it maybe fun to put on a 'slave' hat and play at it for a while.

Well of course it changes things! It doesn't change what she *seeks* but, until she finds it, she ain't IT...! Btw, that's one mighty insulting characterisation of the average submissive - is there anyone you don't hurl slurs at? lol

quote:

The differences maybe 'hokey' to You... maybe because You are a hat wearer and to You, 'Matser' is something You DO, something You play at rather than something You ARE?

Actually, I think it rather comical that you don't even acknowledge "Dominant" anymore. You've adopted a position of Master vs player/hat wearer etc instead.... Presumably to further elevate your elitist self? ;-)

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 73

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 8/26/2008 12:44:50 PM

drawntothedark

Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

...It even says so in the Official Protocol Manual for Twue Submissives and Slaves, 2008 edition...

Does anybody have the Amazon link?... I could use a book like that...

I think that's the huge overwritten book that is standing in for a missing leg on my sofa.

(in reply to E2Sweet)

Post #: 74

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 9/6/2008 2:52:00 PM

Worldly1

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.

You are a slave if you identify as a slave, whether you are collared or not. You do not have to be owned in order to be a slave. Being a slave is what is in your heart, not what someone else decides you should be called.

Anyone who says otherwise should walk into Leather space and tell some boy that he is not a slave because he is not collared. An attitude adjustment will occur within seconds.

Order a book from Amazon.com called 'Slavecraft', by 'a grateful slave' and Guy Baldwin. You will learn that YOU are the only one who gets to decide what you are.

(in reply to moonbeam713)

Post #: 75

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 9/6/2008 3:21:02 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

i am a slave, have been for many years. i had a Dom comment on my profile, stating that i had no right to state that i was looking for an intelligent Man. i didn't think i was worng, am i?

You are unowned and unclaimed, and you identify as a slave. Right now you are in the market for a Master. Well yes my dear you do have a right to put down your desires and until his steel is around your neck, you can select whatever it is you want. He has no right to impose any of his crap on you, period.

Good Luck.

Aramis

(in reply to moonbeam713)

Post #: 76

RE: what constitutes what an uncollared slave can ask for? - 9/6/2008 3:35:15 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

i am a slave, have been for many years. i had a Dom comment on my profile, stating that i had no right to state that i was looking for an intelligent Man. i didn't think i was worng, am i?

I am not sure what bothers me more.....

That some idiot makes such a comment to aperson's profile or

that a person has to ask if they are wrong to look for what they want in a Master.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to moonbeam713)

Post #: 77

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