Who's in control?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Who's in control?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Who's in control?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 10:45:48 AM

IvyMorgan

Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline

I was off to a munch yesterday, and travelling up, I was asked by a friend of mine, did I think submissives had more control in a scene than was often thought.

I thought about it for all of a few seconds and then gave the same answer I always have. A submissive (and I'm using this term to apply to whomever is on the "bottom" in a given moment) is always the one in ultimate control.

He asked why, and I said... "Either the dominant is playing only as far as the submissive can take, so the submissive is in control, you rarely if ever hear dominants saying 'I want to/I did play as hard and as far and as long as I liked, screw the sub' whilst you tend to always hear, 'I watch my sub carefully and go only as far as they can take', 'my slave doesn't have a safeword, but I only push her as far as she can go' and so on. So those subs are in control in a round about way. Or you have a submissive with a scripted/negotiated scene, for example in public. Think of what percentage of public scenes end in a safe word... 50%, higher? In those scenarios, there's no pretense, the submissive is drawing the line of what goes and what doesn't. How many times does a dominant safeword, compared to a sub? Either a scene stops cos a sub says so directly, or because the dominant deems the sub has had enough, or because both have reached the place where they want to go. The submissive is always in control."

He agreed, but, I'm wondering if anyone else does?

Who is in control of your "play" relationship? When you take it apart, I mean.

Post #: 1

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 10:54:18 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

For me, this is where my differences in my definitions of submissive and slave come into play. Once I've relinquished that initial decision, she's in control from that point forward. Sure, people can argue semantics all they want and can make claims that "you can leave at any time" but people tend to forget that leaving is not the essence of control. It's the end. If I leave, there wasn't any control to begin with, and once I've made that decision to leave, I have no more control than I did before I left. But what gets missed here is that SHE can leave, too. It's not just the submissive's perogative to leave, but either member can end the relationship and that's not control. That's the end of a relationship, which means the idea of control does not exist at that particular time. No one then has control.

However, while I'm in a relationship with a dominant woman, she has complete control over me. That's our agreement. If I'm stupid enough to walk away from it, then that means the relationship is over, and NO ONE has control. It doesn't empower me in any way.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me

http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 2

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 10:56:44 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

In my house, after they are "owned" I am. Keep in mind that I feel this is a very different situation than the one you describe. What you are describing isn't dominance and submission, to ME it is topping and bottoming. Not wrong or right, just different.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 3

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 10:58:54 AM

UmbraDomina

Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline

I am in control of my releationship. We play when I wish to play, we play becouse I am a sadist and enjoy drawing blood, and hearing him scream. He offers his body as my canvas, he takes what I give as a matter of pride in his ablity to serve me.
He has no safe words, no negotiation, he has no say in the way I play, what I choose to use on him, he has no limits ( he instead is protected only by my own limits) I often push him further then he would like or that he thinks he can go, it is my choice to do so, he is my slave, my property. His only option in any way is to walk away from the releationship.

Alexandra ~

_____________________________

Alexandra ~

~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 4

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:02:16 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I find once you are bound and restrained you better hope you made a good choice in who you trust.
The one in control may be the sub in their choice. But ultimately what happens once you are at someones mercy is in their hands.
Kyst

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 5

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:40:36 AM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline

My thoughts on the matter. Both Parties are in control of what is going on. The control is somewhat different and varied between top/bottom, Dom/sub..etc..

Still none the less, both people are in control of things. You have to be in control of yourself inorder to pass it along to your partner.

There is always self control, control over play, control of maintaining submission level, physical control....

Control is on many different levels. The conversation you had with your friend just addressed some valid levels and areas.

Anyways, both people are in control.

There are some cases where this does not fully apply as well. Some people have more extreme D/s or topping/bottoming going on. Edge playing, or even having relationships that are on the Edge.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 6

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:41:25 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

The submissive always has the control... after all she/he is only submitting for a certain period of time. I don't honestly think any adult human being can function very well and be submissive 7/24/365.

However if you have both taken the time to negotiate well and make a good choice neither of you really has the control. You've come together because you have enough in common.

Same for owners and slaves. By that time you've gotten to know each other so well that if the owner stops or only goes so far, it's because she only wants to go so far. Don't assume that comments such as "I only take my sub as far as she can go" means that the owner or even dominant hasn't made the decision.

At GLLA 7 Saturday night we had an impromptu discussion at the end of one of my readings and some folks seemed a bit horrified by the fact that I'm a sadist while my slave is not a masochist so he does indeed suffer when we do SM. We do SM when I feel the urge he just happens to have wisely chosen a woman to give his life to whom does not require a lot to satisfy her sadistic urges. That's a sign of how smart he was not how much control he has.

If you take the time to analyze every dynamic you will soon discover that the control, the power, even the authority we all talk about frankly are secondary to what we each must do to survive and hopefully thrive in life.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 8/25/2008 11:43:24 AM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 7

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:46:32 AM

softpjOS

Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

My feelings are that any Dominant that finds any value in their sub/slave will stop a scene before it goes "too far" based on Their wishes, not necessarily that of the sub. I mean, sure Mistress could beat me until I couldn't walk the next day, and i would probably take it lol, however, what good would i be to Her if i couldn't serve after the fact?

In our relationship, we both have limits. One of Hers being that no play/scene will be taken to the point that it will interfere with my service to Her.   Only twice that i can think of in almost 6 years has She heard my safeword, otherwise She decides when it is time to stop.

Or.. as the case this past weekend, when Mistress allowed another Dommes to spank me for my birthday, the Dominant simply gets tired and gives up on getting me to call red.

*giggles and hopes a certain Someone doesn't read that!*

On the other hand, had Someone else joined in... i'm quite certain the outcome would have been a bit different

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 8

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:48:14 AM

Daddyssweetpea

Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2008
Status: offline

Daddy pays careful attention to what i need, he listens to what i have to say and he strives to give me what i need to be a good and obedient girl, but ultimately he's in control because he is the one who decides what that is. i may ask, beg, plead, suggest, etc, but i may not decide. That is for him to do. i have a voice, but it may be overridden. Daddy has control over me, and that is how i like it to be. That is the beauty of what we have, that i can place myself under his control with complete trust and willingness.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 9

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:51:04 AM

UmbraDomina

Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline

*laughs and waves at PJ* I still owe you one *VEG*

Alexandra ~

(in reply to softpjOS)

Post #: 10

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 11:55:10 AM

softpjOS

Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

adds Ms Alexandra's "1" to her to-do list at the next wicked

(in reply to UmbraDomina)

Post #: 11

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:09:36 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

Each person is in control of himself or herself.

No one has any control beyond himself or herself.

Control of others is always an illusion.

_____________________________

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 12

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:15:40 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I am in agreement with LaT on this one.

Addressing play: When I've done casual play, the safewords were clarified. Her wants and desires were discussed along with mine and a scenario was agreed to. I then played to her limits so in those instances, she retained control...if nothing else, by use of the safeword. Now then, play with someone who is mine or who is interested in becoming mine would be more along the lines of my finding out what she liked and did not, where her limits were, and discussion of what I hope to achieve through play and the fact that what I hope to achieve can vary from one scene to the next. Also, when I am dealing with someone who is interested in being mine, I make it clear that they can suggest play and I may or may not go along with it but that if I suggest it, it will be done. She still retains the control of her safeword and her limits, but how I choose to play, how long I play, what is done, where it is done, when it is done, is all under my control. Once she is mine, I have found that many limits went away and safewords were rarely needed. If they had been needed too often, I would have stepped back and taken a hard look at her style of play and whether or not it suited mine as I am not changing who and what I am in terms of play except to add to what I do or improve it.

Outside of play, she always has the control to end the relationship by walking away. But, as sarbonne noted, that is not control...that is ending something. Refusing to submit but not walking away changes the dynamic...but that is not what you are asking about.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 13

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:16:36 PM

Raechard

Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Control of others is always an illusion.

We are all controlled by others unless you are strictly talking about the context in this here thread. Anyone who follows any kind of trend or popular fashion is controlled by popular culture. Anyone who refuses to follow a trend or fashion equally is controlled in an inverse way.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 8/25/2008 12:17:21 PM >

_____________________________

えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 14

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:20:25 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

What if they just grab whatever they grab first and wear that?

[Caveat: someone made me type that]

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to Raechard)

Post #: 15

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:37:58 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

It's a result of time letting the relationship evolve into something special. I have no doubt that most relationships begin with the submissive telling the Dominant what she can take and with him listening to her. But the ideal relationship has the submissive gradually become helpless to the Dominant.

The surrender is gained over time and with trust, but once it finds a way to snap the lock closed, it is genuine and total. From then on, it’s up to the Dom when to let up even if she wants to please the Dom taking more.

In an ideal relationship, the Dom will stop at the right time and it will work perfectly.

If a submissive loses that relationship where she could trust and still be taken to the summit over and over, she won’t feel like she is in charge. She will be very much the submissive seeking HER Dom at all costs.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 16

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:42:41 PM

Raechard

Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
What if they just grab whatever they grab first and wear that?

[Caveat: someone made me type that]

They end up going on a camping trip wearing a cocktail dress.

_____________________________

えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 17

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 12:46:40 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

Kinky....

Pyrrsefanie would definitely spank me for that.

...it's worth considering...

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to Raechard)

Post #: 18

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 1:04:29 PM

Raechard

Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

Indeed.

_____________________________

えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 19

RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 1:07:39 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard
We are all controlled by others unless you are strictly talking about the context in this here thread. Anyone who follows any kind of trend or popular fashion is controlled by popular culture. Anyone who refuses to follow a trend or fashion equally is controlled in an inverse way.

No.

That is not control. That is choice.

_____________________________

(in reply to Raechard)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Who's in control?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094