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RE: Who's in control? - 8/25/2008 10:31:44 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		In a scene setting, Top/bottom physical play,  He's in control, steering the scene..  but as long as there is a DM in the room, or 3 friends that would react if i screamed RED... i have power.  (Course, if I'm chained up, and He lays down the flogger and walks away...  i'm pretty damn powerless at that point.)

IN scene, the one steering has "Control".  The person with the ability to stop it has "Power".  But relationally, both those aspects are sliding scales with lines blurring as the pair builds history.  

_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 2:30:47 AM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		If a safeword is in place, the submissive always has negative control. In the online world, both have equal control (the off switch or delete button).

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 3:55:25 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		In a scene position, I don't believe you can define who is in control or not.  When it comes to a relationship, again it depends on the people involved, but ultimately both have control.
 
But to assume that a Ds relationship is about control would be a misunderstanding.  You cannot compare the control issued in a scene to daytoday life.  That is about authority.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 4:08:58 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

If a safeword is in place, the submissive always has negative control. In the online world, both have equal control (the off switch or delete button).


We tend to forget that if the bottom is given a safe word, the top can stop everything even before that word is emitted. 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to masterforRT)
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RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 5:47:53 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

If a safeword is in place, the submissive always has negative control. In the online world, both have equal control (the off switch or delete button).


We tend to forget that if the bottom is given a safe word, the top can stop everything even before that word is emitted.


And that tops can have safewords too.

Either person can end a scene or walk away from a relationship.

The question is, during a scene is the top ethical enough to respect your safeword?

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 3:06:39 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta
I hate the term "no limits". EVERYONE has limits.


That's true but there is a huge difference between a submissive who says "My only limits are those things that will leave me maimed, dismembered or dead" and one who says "Oh, I don't like that. That's a hard limit". The "I don't believe in no limits" contingent is like a jukebox that only plays one song. Always the most extreme examples.

(in reply to sodsta)
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RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 3:59:21 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

 And that tops can have safewords too.

Either person can end a scene or walk away from a relationship.

The question is, during a scene is the top ethical enough to respect your safeword?   


Nods and nods in agreement!  I've played with tops who had more limits than I do, their safewords are "I don't do that'! 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Who's in control? - 8/26/2008 5:59:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT
If a safeword is in place, the submissive always has negative control.

This assumes that:
a) only subs can safeword/stop scenes without asking
b) doms will automatically stop something at a safe word

(or what TammyJo said first)

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 8/26/2008 6:00:20 PM >

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to masterforRT)
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RE: Who's in control? - 8/27/2008 2:56:14 PM   
TheChastiser


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/16/2005
From: Hemel Hempstead
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Who is in control of your "play" relationship?  When you take it apart, I mean.


i am. but then i live in a M/s dynamic. i go to the lengths i want to. i have my own limits, so the posession adopts those, which also means she adopts the pain and damage levels i feel i want to go to (i dislike prison).

Mike

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Let Me unchain your mind and your sexuality will follow.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Who's in control? - 8/27/2008 3:59:05 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'll have an easier time of this when someone defines what they mean by "control".  If we're talking about the obvious meaning... "the ability to shape the course of events"  (in either a scene or a 24/7 full on m/s relationship), then I don't see how both parties don't always have control (and keeping this in the area of consentual BDSM).  I don't participate in "scenes" and I don't "play".  But I can state with utter certainty that my slave has a HUGE degree of control over our relationship and by extension, me.  I would have it no other way.  Conveniently, I'm in the authority camp, not the control camp anyway.

(in reply to TheChastiser)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Who's in control? - 8/28/2008 3:14:45 PM   
Deliena


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Well Master and i have never had a safe word, and to be honest i've never really felt like i needed one.  i trust that He will only do with me that which ultimately satisfies both of us.  If that turns out not to be the case later, i'll deal - i'm a grown-up, i have the internal resources.  Fortunately i think it's unlikely at this stage that it's something i'm going to have to do.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Who's in control? - 8/28/2008 4:05:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deliena
Well Master and i have never had a safe word, and to be honest i've never really felt like i needed one.  i trust that He will only do with me that which ultimately satisfies both of us.  If that turns out not to be the case later, i'll deal - i'm a grown-up, i have the internal resources.  Fortunately i think it's unlikely at this stage that it's something i'm going to have to do.

Now it should be noted that safewords do not necessarily mean "Stop, too much"

They are often used in rape or role play scenes to mean "Hey somethings wrong, really, this isn't just me resisting, I need help"

Or in scenes where something goes wrong- a rope slips, or a cramp comes up, or you feel faint. 

Nothing at all to do with "going too far."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Deliena)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 11:16:42 AM   
Deliena


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Now it should be noted that safewords do not necessarily mean "Stop, too much"

They are often used in rape or role play scenes to mean "Hey somethings wrong, really, this isn't just me resisting, I need help"

Or in scenes where something goes wrong- a rope slips, or a cramp comes up, or you feel faint. 

Nothing at all to do with "going too far."


Sorry, haven't been on for a long time so responding to this a little tardy (as our cousins across the sea say).  It's a good point you make LA and i understand why you're making that point, however, in the context of my personal situation (only!) i would say i also trust Master to know when responding to Him whether i was saying "no" because that was part of the context of the scene (to use the rape/roleplay analogy you used) or whether it was because it had triggered an emotional state that would be undesirable to both of us.  In my (albeit sometimes rather simple) mind that also constitutes "going too far", it's just too far in a different direction.  Ditto faintness/cramps etc.

We have recently talked about some roleplay situations where what i would be saying and doing might be at odds with my feelings (a rape/takedown fantasy i've held for a long time) and although we haven't set up a safe word or action i've discussed with Him things from my past which might influence my responses (although obviously i don't know until the scene happens exactly how i'll react i can make intelligent guesses) as well as how those reactions would likely play out in my body language, verbal language etc.  So without a 'safe word' i think we make our scenes a safe and trusting environment.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 11:53:32 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		N/m  I am just repeating myself.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/11/2008 11:56:01 AM >

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 12:00:04 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		If I really take it apart we both are in control of various parts of our relationship. But on the subject of just play, I control what we do, how long we do it, when we do it, where we do it and should we ever want to play with others, who we play with. He controls how much he can take and using his safeword if needed.

Looking at the relationship as a whole there are parts that I control and parts that he keeps control of. Personally, I think most relationships are like this even in M/s relationships. A slave cannot be controlled if they do not wish too and for them to be controlled they must be in enough control of themselves to give up that free will to someone else.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 6:28:09 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Both of us. There are times I want to play and he's too tired or sunburned or whatever. There are times he wants to and I know it will end badly so I beg off rather than having an emotional melt down. There are things I've asked for that he considers unsafe so I don't get, there are things he does that I grit my teeth through and have to tell him I can't handle any more.

But we seek a win/win situation, where we are both happy afterwards.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 7:02:06 PM   
Brownbohemian


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		I agree w/ you to a certain degree. But keep in mind that the D/s can always say no and that the sub has to fully trust that the D will stop when the s has been pushed too far. I had an s that would purposely disobey may in hopes of making me angry. In the end I denied him, and he got right back in line. I personally don't believe that there is such a thing as ultimate control, and this is comming from a major D. There is no D without an s and there is no s without a D.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
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RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 7:06:22 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Each person is in control of himself or herself.

No one has any control beyond himself or herself.

Control of others is always an illusion.

The entire scientific branch of human psychology is not so easily taken with such a philosophical reductionism.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Who's in control? - 9/11/2008 7:09:16 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis
if i screamed RED... i have power.

This is a contextual word use that I think is easily confused.

"Power" in any given situation does not equate to "control".


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 59
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